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Will the Broncos be swallowed up by the Championship?


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#1 Mumby Magic

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 01:21 PM

How likely is it that the Broncos will get promoted straight away? What will be the backbone of their squad when Dixon (highly likely) Moore, Caton-brown et al leave?

Have they got the structure in place to make a good fist of it in the Championship?

 

Personally, and I hope I'm wrong I can see a mid place finish for them next year making it even harder to start the climb back up. With Hemel, Oxford, Gloucestershire and the Skolars now not far behind them, the Broncos may find themselves slightly less of an importance on the geographical scheme of things.


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#2 westlondonfan

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 01:49 PM

We'll if they don't have a ground or a financial backer then they will merge with Skolars.

#3 nkpom

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 01:52 PM

Whatever happens next year a merger with the Skolars should never be an option.



#4 Saintslass

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 02:15 PM

How likely is it that the Broncos will get promoted straight away? What will be the backbone of their squad when Dixon (highly likely) Moore, Caton-brown et al leave?

Have they got the structure in place to make a good fist of it in the Championship?

Scott Moore leaving would instantly make them a better team.  He's been diabolical for them.  He has the great record of being the player to miss most tackles in Superleague.

 

Dixon will be lucky to find another Superleague club and actually he's got a cheek even looking bearing in mind how the Broncos have stood by him through a year long injury.  I hope he goes nowhere as he doesn't yet deserve to.  He may be extremely rapid but his defence is generally poor and so needs to work hard on that.

 

It's inevitable that a relegation club loses many of its best players.  That invariably happens.  But a number of their current players were loanees - in fact Hull FC have immediately recalled their season long loanee Cunningham which I think is poor form given that he was on a season long loan (I notice that Leeds have honoured their season long loan deals and not recalled their players).  Another couple were from Australia and only signed for this year anyway, Cas have got one (Solomona) and we have got the other (Vea), both for next season. Matt Cook is a journeyman and although he's done his bit I am sure they can secure a better player for next season. 

 

Their only true loss so far has been Caton-Brown who is a real talent and is homegrown to the club.  Hopefully he will be the only talented player to leave but Grima has confirmed 23 of the 31 players in there first team squad will not be with the club next year (and that will include those mentioned above of course) and they have already recruited five more players currently based in Australia whose names they will release over the next few weeks.  Nick Slyney who has worked hard for them has re-signed, as have a couple of other young players, including Joe Keyes who scored a try against Warrington.  I'm not sure where Josh Drinkwater is up to.  I think he signed for two years but whether that will include playing the Championship I don't know.  However, he could do with staying as his kicking is good.  They have already announced a hooker coming over from Australia who played for Italy in the world cup.  They need more players with that kind of experience to shore them up.  Their lack of experience and their lack of big blokes up front has been their undoing (along with poor defence, but that goes without saying really).

 

There is no reason to think that the Broncos will be swallowed up by the Championship but of course they might be.  The new system gives them a chance to come straight back up but obviously they will have to firstly win enough games to finish in the top four and then enough games after the split to get promoted.  It's a tough ask but a lot will depend on their new recruits and how the latest squad settle in during the off season.  At least they will get an off season this year, unlike last year.



#5 bowes

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 02:40 PM

Whatever happens next year a merger with the Skolars should never be an option.

It's better than the idea on here that they should play at the same ground but still not ideal. If the merged club were basically Skolars with an academy and better first team bumped a division that would be good though.

#6 londonrlfan

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 02:54 PM

It's better than the idea on here that they should play at the same ground but still not ideal. If the merged club were basically Skolars with an academy and better first team bumped a division that would be good though.

 

No it wouldn't. I'm fed up of fans of other clubs saying we should just automatically start supporting another team, like they would do the same. If Broncos go, then so do I. 


Edited by londonrlfan, 14 July 2014 - 02:58 PM.


#7 londonrlfan

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 02:58 PM

Scott Moore leaving would instantly make them a better team.  He's been diabolical for them.  He has the great record of being the player to miss most tackles in Superleague.

 

Dixon will be lucky to find another Superleague club and actually he's got a cheek even looking bearing in mind how the Broncos have stood by him through a year long injury.  I hope he goes nowhere as he doesn't yet deserve to.  He may be extremely rapid but his defence is generally poor and so needs to work hard on that.

 

It's inevitable that a relegation club loses many of its best players.  That invariably happens.  But a number of their current players were loanees - in fact Hull FC have immediately recalled their season long loanee Cunningham which I think is poor form given that he was on a season long loan (I notice that Leeds have honoured their season long loan deals and not recalled their players).  Another couple were from Australia and only signed for this year anyway, Cas have got one (Solomona) and we have got the other (Vea), both for next season. Matt Cook is a journeyman and although he's done his bit I am sure they can secure a better player for next season. 

 

Their only true loss so far has been Caton-Brown who is a real talent and is homegrown to the club.  Hopefully he will be the only talented player to leave but Grima has confirmed 23 of the 31 players in there first team squad will not be with the club next year (and that will include those mentioned above of course) and they have already recruited five more players currently based in Australia whose names they will release over the next few weeks.  Nick Slyney who has worked hard for them has re-signed, as have a couple of other young players, including Joe Keyes who scored a try against Warrington.  I'm not sure where Josh Drinkwater is up to.  I think he signed for two years but whether that will include playing the Championship I don't know.  However, he could do with staying as his kicking is good.  They have already announced a hooker coming over from Australia who played for Italy in the world cup.  They need more players with that kind of experience to shore them up.  Their lack of experience and their lack of big blokes up front has been their undoing (along with poor defence, but that goes without saying really).

 

There is no reason to think that the Broncos will be swallowed up by the Championship but of course they might be.  The new system gives them a chance to come straight back up but obviously they will have to firstly win enough games to finish in the top four and then enough games after the split to get promoted.  It's a tough ask but a lot will depend on their new recruits and how the latest squad settle in during the off season.  At least they will get an off season this year, unlike last year.

 

Good news about Cunningham, seriously not good enough and playing as a 6 when he isn't that position irritated me. They can all go to be honest, not bothered and I won't miss them. I can defend players losing if they try, but 72-12 on a must win game is embarrassing. No doubt some of them will perform like world beaters next year though. The only problem is any young players playing well next year will instant be poached by Kockrash and his pound signs. Keyes is a serious talent, but I know we won't be able to keep hold of him. 



#8 RSN

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 03:33 PM

They'll do fine.

#9 Mumby Magic

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 03:43 PM

I've no doubting they will be alright. I've always liked the Broncos and would like them to do well. I am not one of the people to say that the game is not working. 2 Watching in London is better than none.

 

For me the bottom up approach should always be the way forward if a club can sustain it. The relegation could be the best way for them to push through home bred players, get them on long term contracts and have some financial reward if the vultures of the north swoop.


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#10 Chronicler of Chiswick

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 03:49 PM

On the playing side, we seem (sic) to be fairly well organised for next season and the supporters that remain might be pleasantly surprised at the quality of the game in the Championship. What needs to be settled (and quickly) are the issues of ground, ownership and finance.


Edited by Chronicler of Chiswick, 14 July 2014 - 03:50 PM.


#11 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 04:10 PM

I've no doubting they will be alright. I've always liked the Broncos and would like them to do well. I am not one of the people to say that the game is not working. 2 Watching in London is better than none.

 

For me the bottom up approach should always be the way forward if a club can sustain it. The relegation could be the best way for them to push through home bred players, get them on long term contracts and have some financial reward if the vultures of the north swoop.

London came from the bottom up


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#12 Red Willow

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 04:27 PM

It's tough in the lower league when everyone treats the game as a cup final. London need time to assemble a team that can play in a rough tough league, they need players that can graft.

 

It can be a great experience for fans and I do wish the Broncos all the best and hope they aren't asset stripped.



#13 EssexRL

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 04:43 PM

I think next season will be a much better one. They should be a competitive side and pushing for promotion. There should be more of a buzz to the Champ next season. Its important they do well but they should.

Skolars have their own identity and fans. They are strongly rooted in NE London with a large and growing youth/mini structure: no merger!
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#14 nadera78

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 05:18 PM

As it currently stands the club have the following (eight) players re-signed up for next season: Slyney, Wallace, Keyes, Burnett, Everett, Macani, Wicks, Woodburn-Hall. 

 

Grima reckons 23 of 31 are leaving, either by their choice or the club's. That would, essentially, be the entirety of the rest of the squad: Minns, Foster, Duckworth, Cunningham, Greenwood (all loanees heading home) as well as Vea, Solomona, Agboke, Atkins, Bishay, Cook, Dixon, Drinkwater, Farrar, Griffin, Krasniqi, Lovell, Mataitonga, McMeeken Moore, O'Callaghan.

 

New singings announced so far are Nasso and Foran, and supposedly a couple more Aussies yet to be announced.

 

Now, if you told me that the likes of Krasniqi, Dollapi, Bishay, McMeeken, Lovell and Griffin were sticking around then perhaps, with the right additions, this would be a team capable of competing at the top end of the Championship - with teams consisting of seasoned veterans and full grown men. The sad truth, however, is that those Londoners will now go on to SL teams where their development will be handled in a much better fashion, and in all likelihood have good careers.

 

London, meanwhile, will next year field a team made up of half-a-dozen Championship standard Aussies, and a stack of 18/19 year old Londoners - in a very real sense mirroring what's happened this year in SL. The youngsters just are not ready for this level of RL, their development is slower than their northern counterparts for the simple reason that they are not immersed in the game in the same way. Simply throwing them into the first team does nobody any good, and yet lessons have not been learned. The assumption seems to be that that SL was too much for this generation of locals, but the Championship will be easier for the next one.

 

Putting aside the ridiculous notion that a Championship side might grab one of the promotion spots available next season, I'd be surprised if London Broncos even reach the top four. It's going to be boys against men.

 

Welcome to the future of London RL - developing players for rugby union and northern SL clubs. 

 


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Jean Roque, Calendrier-revue du Racing-Club Albigeois, 1958-1959

#15 Northern Sol

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 05:29 PM

London came from the bottom up

They did in a fashion but of course in the 80s, you couldn't start up RL teams in London very easily and juniors were almost out of the question. This meant that Broncos, like most expansion clubs, were over dependent on importing players whether from overseas or the heartlands. The downside with this is a/  a lack of local faces isn't a good thing in an area where RL struggles from credibility and b/  generally speaking imported players are expensive.

 

The other issue is the ground. Many RL sides don't own their own ground (and pay the price sadly) but Broncos have never had a stable base. A bottom-up side needs to secure a ground ASAP whether they own it or have a long term lease. In contrast Skolars and Hemel have had more stability.

 

They were also promoted to SL having only finished fourth in the old second division. They may have been in the top flight previously but they weren't the strongest side out the top flight when they went up.



#16 Northern Sol

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 05:33 PM

The youngsters just are not ready for this level of RL, their development is slower than their northern counterparts for the simple reason that they are not immersed in the game in the same way. Simply throwing them into the first team does nobody any good, and yet lessons have not been learned. The assumption seems to be that that SL was too much for this generation of locals, but the Championship will be easier for the next one.

 

Putting aside the ridiculous notion that a Championship side might grab one of the promotion spots available next season, I'd be surprised if London Broncos even reach the top four. It's going to be boys against men.

Time will tell but it's worth remembering that Broncos academy has produced a fair few players that were snapped up by other SL sides e.g. Sarginson, Caton-Brown, LMS, Clubb and Dixon (inevitable). The academy has also done pretty well against heartland sides. I think young London lads might do quite well at Championship level and the men vs boys aspect will help toughen them up for SL. At the moment all but a handful are being outskilled as well as outmuscled, at Championship level, they may well outskill their opposition.



#17 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 05:48 PM

They did in a fashion but of course in the 80s, you couldn't start up RL teams in London very easily and juniors were almost out of the question. This meant that Broncos, like most expansion clubs, were over dependent on importing players whether from overseas or the heartlands. The downside with this is a/  a lack of local faces isn't a good thing in an area where RL struggles from credibility and b/  generally speaking imported players are expensive.

 

The other issue is the ground. Many RL sides don't own their own ground (and pay the price sadly) but Broncos have never had a stable base. A bottom-up side needs to secure a ground ASAP whether they own it or have a long term lease. In contrast Skolars and Hemel have had more stability.

 

They were also promoted to SL having only finished fourth in the old second division. They may have been in the top flight previously but they weren't the strongest side out the top flight when they went up.

yes

 

 

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#18 THE RED ROOSTER

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 05:59 PM

Lets just list the problems

 

1    Revenue - The parachute payment is a one-off payment, There is no commitment from any Investor to bankroll the club and crowds will drop to around 600, this is unlikely to attact sponsors and before you ask the current sponsorship of the club is rumoured to be less than what I earn per annum.and I am unfortunately not a high wage earner, there are travel costs to the north, rent to be paid and a junior system to be run. Within one year the financial crush will be acute. I also doubt you can charge £ 20 for Championship footy but if you do not you cut your income further

 

2   Intensity - Many clubs in the league will still be part-time, it's a big ask to take on fully professional clubs in the 8/8/8, I doubt very much that Championship clubs will compete nor do I believe that every game will matter with the top four probably settled earlier than everyone here thinks with the team that finishes fourth being the runt of the litter. The only chance of toppling a Super League club lies in one of them going into financial meltdown and eve then there will be your Championship rivals who will be thinking exactly the same thing once that happens

 

3   No Media Exposure - The championship really is a niche sport and has NO exposure down here, Forget wet Tuesdays on Sky Sports 4 a subscription channel that preaches only to the converted. This impacts on Revenue

 

4   Coaching - Sorry Joe Grima is a poor coach IMO and I am unimpressed with the journeymen he has signed already, London simply will not be competitive against the Championship clubs and the struggle for London will be to avoid the bottom four not top four in 2015.

 

5   A Final Farewell - As i have mentioned on here there is a group that likes the idea of being part of a small family club "My small Club" and who like regailing one and all about how they helped Steve McGee take the goalposts back to the lock up. The rest of us alas will be returning to the sports from which we came and truly never left or will be watching Rugby League on occasion either in thye North or at Wembley. there will be no stampede at the turnstiles to watch championship footy even if  Joe the malteeser geezer confounds me and turns out to be the championships very own Jack Gibson..

 

I look forward to the latest edition of Tempus Publishings - Images of Sport - The London Broncos 1996-2014, some black and white memories and nostalgia about what might have been.

 

Cue the posts radiating pulsating positivity from pedants.....

 

Ps Sorry chaps in my agitation I hit the send button too early... :blush:


Edited by THE RED ROOSTER, 14 July 2014 - 06:18 PM.

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#19 nadera78

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 06:58 PM

Time will tell but it's worth remembering that Broncos academy has produced a fair few players that were snapped up by other SL sides e.g. Sarginson, Caton-Brown, LMS, Clubb and Dixon (inevitable). The academy has also done pretty well against heartland sides. I think young London lads might do quite well at Championship level and the men vs boys aspect will help toughen them up for SL. At the moment all but a handful are being outskilled as well as outmuscled, at Championship level, they may well outskill their opposition.

Those players were dumped into the first team before they were ready and left to sink or swim. For the most part they trod water for a couple of years before moving onto clubs better able to develop their talents. The same is happening now with the current players (Krasniqi, Bishay, etc) who were dumped into the team too early. The next group of 18 year olds is apparently going to match up against seasoned professionals in a way the previous two generations weren't? They won't be given a chance to "outskill" Championship opponents if they're being beaten physically each week.

 

Yes, we are undoubtedly developing promising players, but then it all stops at 18/19 when they are asked to do too much. Two groups of juniors have been led down this path now, and yet we are repeating the same mistake a third time - and expecting a different result.

 

Like I say, the future of London RL seems to be to develop teenagers through the Academy, give them a year in senior RL, then watch them move onto SL clubs up north. And apparently grow "organically" in the process!


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#20 Northern Sol

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 07:04 PM

Those players were dumped into the first team before they were ready and left to sink or swim. For the most part they trod water for a couple of years before moving onto clubs better able to develop their talents. The same is happening now with the current players (Krasniqi, Bishay, etc) who were dumped into the team too early. The next group of 18 year olds is apparently going to match up against seasoned professionals in a way the previous two generations weren't? They won't be given a chance to "outskill" Championship opponents if they're being beaten physically each week.

 

Yes, we are undoubtedly developing promising players, but then it all stops at 18/19 when they are asked to do too much. Two groups of juniors have been led down this path now, and yet we are repeating the same mistake a third time - and expecting a different result.

 

Like I say, the future of London RL seems to be to develop teenagers through the Academy, give them a year in senior RL, then watch them move onto SL clubs up north. And apparently grow "organically" in the process!

I'll agree with you that Broncos tried to make a SL side out of youngsters and you just can't do that. Even Wigan wouldn't be able to get rid of more or less their whole team and replace them with their academy - at least not in one year. But I don't see the logic of "If it doesn't work in SL then it can't work in the Championship". The Championship is a lower standard of rugby in every aspect and that includes physicality..






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