Jump to content


Rugby League World Issue 402

Try our Fantastic 5-Issue Bundle Offer! For just £18, a saving of 10% on the regular cover price, you’ll get:
The Play-offs Issue - pictured (out 12 Sept) – Covering the climax of the Super League & Championship seasons
The Grand Finals Issue (out 17 Oct) – Grand Final excitement from both sides of the world plus Four Nations preview
The Four Nations Issue (out 21 Nov) – Fantastic coverage of the Four Nations tournament down under
The Golden Boot Issue (out 19 Dec) – A look back at the 2014 season plus the big reveal of the winner of the Golden Boot
The 2015 Season Preview Issue (out 23 Jan) – How will your team perform in 2015? We preview every club.


League Express

Podcast

Photo
- - - - -

Cabinet Reshuffle (renamed thread)


  • Please log in to reply
69 replies to this topic

#41 Griff9of13

Griff9of13
  • Coach
  • 5,645 posts

Posted 16 July 2014 - 12:23 PM

There have been lots coming and goings, yet this bloke keeps his job.  :O


"it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."

#42 John Drake

John Drake
  • Admin
  • 7,628 posts

Posted 16 July 2014 - 02:50 PM

Couple of posts removed.

 

Please keep things civil and on-topic - ie, about the Cabinet reshuffle.

 

If you want to discuss Boris Johnson's record as Mayor of London, or have a rant about how awful you think the Labour Party are, please start a separate thread.

 

Thanks.


John Drake
Site Admin: TotalRL.com
TotalRL.com
Email: john.drake@totalrl.com


#43 l'angelo mysterioso

l'angelo mysterioso
  • Coach
  • 40,908 posts

Posted 16 July 2014 - 02:53 PM

Couple of posts removed.

 

Please keep things civil and on-topic - ie, about the Cabinet reshuffle.

 

If you want to discuss Boris Johnson's record as Mayor of London, or have a rant about how awful you think the Labour Party are, please start a separate thread.

 

Thanks.

in that case John you've forgotten to remove some: just saying.


WELCOME TO THE ROYSTON VASEY SUPER LEAGUE 2015
Keeping it local

#44 Martyn Sadler

Martyn Sadler

    League Publications Ltd

  • Moderator
  • 2,837 posts

Posted 16 July 2014 - 04:27 PM

Another Telegraph article suggesting they've lost the plot.

 

Mr Gove has been a great Education Secretary

 

If someone had posted that on this forum then I'd be accusing them of trolling.  And I doubt I'd be convinced by any excuses of "honest opinion".

The trouble with being the Education Secretary is that you can only really be judged some years after you have left office.

 

And very often the role of Education Secretary seems to be held by a politician hoping for bigger things who wants to cause as few ripples as possible with the teaching unions.

 

The only two Education Secretaries in the last 17 years who don't conform to that stereotype are David Blunkett (1997 to 2001) and Gove.

 

Both of them identified the fact that the education system is letting down working class kids, and both were vilified for their troubles by the National Union of Teachers.

 

Both of them thoroughly prepared their brief while they were in opposition. Blunkett once famously had to hide in a broom cupboard, even before he took office, to escape enraged NUT members.

 

The truth is that the Education Secretary is dealing with vested interests that see any changes as a threat to their members' terms and conditions, which is where their priorities lie. The only change they will accept is more money being thrown at them, which is what happened when Gordon Brown came to power. And Brown threw money at everything, creating a financial black hole.

 

But as long as most middle class parents can afford to buy houses in areas that give them access to schools with a decent intake, they will go along with this, without caring too much about schools in poor neighbourhoods.

 

That sense of smug satisfaction and a desire not to rock the boat seems apparent on this thread, but in my opinion it just isn't good enough.

 

Because of my role in our company I receive hundreds of emails from young kids at school in some of the less affluent Rugby League towns telling me they want to write about the game for a living, and asking for work experience. And it's heartbreaking to have to turn them down because they have never been taught even the basics of good English.

 

I don't know why this is, and why teachers can't instil some decent writing skills into these kids.

 

I feel strongly about this because I came from a school myself that had kids from a very poor background. I was the only boy in my school year who passed the old eleven-plus, so I can see what low expectations lead to.

 

Blunkett and Gove, in their own ways, both wanted to do something about this problem, and both tried.

 

In the meantime we are falling farther and farther behind our rivals when the educational attainments of our kids are measured against them.

 

And I can't see any other politician on the horizon who is prepared to do anything about it.

 

Anything for an easy life.



#45 ckn

ckn
  • Admin
  • 16,841 posts

Posted 16 July 2014 - 04:51 PM

The thing is that I've seen one direct outcome of his changes.  Just up the road from me is one of only three brand new sixth form super-colleges created by the Labour "Building Schools for the Future" scheme, it's a truly amazing school that I'd have been delighted to attend, here's just a few of its key features:

- a proper mechanic bay designed to teach kids hands-on car maintenance, this is a spec that many local garages would be delighted to have with many fantastic items donated by the big car companies.

- science labs that most universities don't have

- large classrooms but designed for small numbers

- an engineering lab

 

I could go on.  The school was designed using educational best practices from around the world, not being shy at all to use ideas that are successful elsewhere.  This is a true marvel of a school that was part of a flagship plan to create similar across the country, dragging the school system into a state that'd help the entire country in the future and getting rid of the old and utterly antiquated things that pass as schools in many parts of the country.  What was Gove's first act in power?  Cancelling it, calling it overambitious and a waste of resources while just abandoning the areas that had stopped their own developments waiting on the programme getting to them.  As with many other areas of Tory abandonment, these areas will probably have to make do for another decade or so until budgetary controls relax enough that they can upgrade their schools, all the time ensuring that the kids are just another victim of the postcode lottery style issues you mention above.


Arguing with the forum trolls is like playing chess with a pigeon.  No matter how good you are, the bird will **** on the board and strut around like it won anyway


#46 GeordieSaint

GeordieSaint
  • Coach
  • 4,800 posts

Posted 16 July 2014 - 05:11 PM

Because of my role in our company I receive hundreds of emails from young kids at school in some of the less affluent Rugby League towns telling me they want to write about the game for a living, and asking for work experience. And it's heartbreaking to have to turn them down.

I applied for work experience with your organisation after I had finished university and spent a couple of years writing about RL for the university paper; it was heartbreaking for me that you never even responded, never mind turn me down! ;)

On a serious note, I don't tend to like getting involved in UK politics topics on this forum as most people are very set in their ways and beliefs. However, I believe you are absolutely spot on with that post.

Edited by GeordieSaint, 16 July 2014 - 05:13 PM.

Kings Lynn Black Knights Rugby League Club - http://www.pitchero....nnblackknights/


#47 Wolford6

Wolford6
  • Coach
  • 10,076 posts

Posted 16 July 2014 - 05:23 PM


- science labs that most universities don't have

 

 

Yes, but

 - they don't offer separate physics, chemistry and biology GCSE exams for most kids; just some combined science thing.

 - they don't do experiments with any remotely dangerous chemicals or solvents.

 - I'm fairly sure the A-level kids don't dissect worms, frogs, rabbits, rats and dogfish like we used to.

 

The schools are playing at teaching science.


Under Scrutiny by the Right-On Thought Police


#48 ckn

ckn
  • Admin
  • 16,841 posts

Posted 16 July 2014 - 05:26 PM

Yes, but

 - they don't offer separate physics, chemistry and biology GCSE exams for most kids; just some combined science thing.

 - they don't do experiments with any remotely dangerous chemicals or solvents.

 - I'm fairly sure the A-level kids don't dissect worms, frogs, rabbits, rats and dogfish like we used to.

 

The schools are playing at teaching science.

This is a 6th form college.


Arguing with the forum trolls is like playing chess with a pigeon.  No matter how good you are, the bird will **** on the board and strut around like it won anyway


#49 Griff9of13

Griff9of13
  • Coach
  • 5,645 posts

Posted 16 July 2014 - 05:50 PM

Mrs Griff9of13 is a secondary school teacher. From what I see she has to spend 25% of her time on crowd control. 25% on social work. 25% on data collection and analyse, which only leaves 25% for actual teaching. She often works until midnight on weekdays when she gets in from work, mostly on paperwork from what I can see. And from what I can understand it is the quality and volume of this paperwork on which schools are mainly judged these days when it comes to OFSTED etc. than the actual teaching delivery. The burden of data collection has risen dramatically under Gove's regime and I for one can't see how it aids a child's education.
"it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."

#50 Martyn Sadler

Martyn Sadler

    League Publications Ltd

  • Moderator
  • 2,837 posts

Posted 16 July 2014 - 05:51 PM

I applied for work experience with your organisation after I had finished university and spent a couple of years writing about RL for the university paper; it was heartbreaking for me that you never even responded, never mind turn me down! ;)

On a serious note, I don't tend to like getting involved in UK politics topics on this forum as most people are very set in their ways and beliefs. However, I believe you are absolutely spot on with that post.

Can you PM me with the details of when and how you contacted us?



#51 l'angelo mysterioso

l'angelo mysterioso
  • Coach
  • 40,908 posts

Posted 16 July 2014 - 05:57 PM

I applied for work experience with your organisation after I had finished university and spent a couple of years writing about RL for the university paper; it was heartbreaking for me that you never even responded, never mind turn me down! ;)

On a serious note, I don't tend to like getting involved in UK politics topics on this forum as most people are very set in their ways and beliefs. However, I believe you are absolutely spot on with that post.

my son did his work experience at Open Rugby. He loved it!


WELCOME TO THE ROYSTON VASEY SUPER LEAGUE 2015
Keeping it local

#52 l'angelo mysterioso

l'angelo mysterioso
  • Coach
  • 40,908 posts

Posted 16 July 2014 - 06:06 PM

My children now in their early thirties went to the local bog standard comp. One is a builder the other works in civil engineering mainly on major railway infrastructure projects. They did ok

my step grand] daughter goes to the same school. She likes to consult me about her homework and talk about what goes on at school. I'm jealous to death. The work she does in every subject is worthwhile, stimulating and appropriate. She is thriving.

 

I had a grammar school education geared to passing O levels and A levels, much of it was dire, although it means I do ok in pub quizzes. Those of my contemporaries went to the local secondary modern.

 

Until recently I helped a friend take assemblies in high schools in Leeds and other parts of West Yorkshire, based on life choices, decision making and staying out of trouble.

 

in the light of these and other experiences including a 30 year teaching career, I get pigged off when I see schools, teachers and young people slagged off and done down.


Edited by l'angelo mysterioso, 16 July 2014 - 06:06 PM.

WELCOME TO THE ROYSTON VASEY SUPER LEAGUE 2015
Keeping it local

#53 tonyXIII

tonyXIII
  • Coach
  • 4,983 posts

Posted 16 July 2014 - 06:12 PM

Yes, but

 - they don't offer separate physics, chemistry and biology GCSE exams for most kids; just some combined science thing.

 - they don't do experiments with any remotely dangerous chemicals or solvents.

 - I'm fairly sure the A-level kids don't dissect worms, frogs, rabbits, rats and dogfish like we used to.

 

The schools are playing at teaching science.

 

Yes, but

- Education policy! The destruction of the old exam boards and the creation of the alphabet soup we have now is not the fault of teachers.

- So, benzene then. Carcinogenic. How would you like me to teach children about fractional distillation of crude oil? Put them in whole body protection suits?

- So what? Let's turn the clock back and make today's students use log tables like I used to.

 

There are restrictions. There are Health and Safety issues we have to consider. However, I utterly refute that I play at teaching science. In the last year, my students have, amongst other activities, used scalpels to dissect a heart, carried out reactions with 1M hydrochloric acid (would you like me to use stronger?), used burettes to titrate citric acid against sodium hydroxide (how old-fashioned would you like?), smelt hydrogen sulphide (poisonous, you know).

I could go on, but it's not you I'm railing against, it's the system. Some of the present-day students are incapable of sitting still for 5 minutes, being quiet for more than 5 minutes and completely incapable of following instructions.

 

If you all want the real answer, you won't like it one bit. It is to segregate students on ability so that the ones who want to work can do so. One of today's classes was a case in point. Two disruptive pupils preventing the class making proper progress. I stood them outside for two minutes. The rest of the class then focus and get started. Bring the two back in and I have to go over the instructions again. The class slowly becomes unsettled again. We got through the work, but I'm sure some of the pupils didn't get as much from the lesson as they could have done had the problem two been excluded. Anyone for the return of the 11-plus? No, I thought not.

 

edit. Just seen l'ange's post and I do concur. The majority of students are hard-working and want to do well. The two mentioned above represent about 10% of the class, but are responsible for about 90% of the disruption. The majority are great.


Edited by tonyXIII, 16 July 2014 - 06:27 PM.

Rethymno Rugby League Appreciation Society
Founder (and, so far, only) member.


#54 ckn

ckn
  • Admin
  • 16,841 posts

Posted 16 July 2014 - 06:32 PM

On the main subject, is it just me or is this just shocking ageism by the Tories?  What's so wrong with middle-aged men?  I'd rather have an older man or woman who has built up a lifetime of experience than someone who takes a good picture and has no real life experience outside of the PPE political circle.


Arguing with the forum trolls is like playing chess with a pigeon.  No matter how good you are, the bird will **** on the board and strut around like it won anyway


#55 l'angelo mysterioso

l'angelo mysterioso
  • Coach
  • 40,908 posts

Posted 16 July 2014 - 06:37 PM

On the main subject, is it just me or is this just shocking ageism by the Tories?  What's so wrong with middle-aged men?  I'd rather have an older man or woman who has built up a lifetime of experience than someone who takes a good picture and has no real life experience outside of the PPE political circle.

not really Craig. The vast majority of the cabinet is still middle aged men. 


WELCOME TO THE ROYSTON VASEY SUPER LEAGUE 2015
Keeping it local

#56 The Future is League

The Future is League
  • Coach
  • 6,006 posts

Posted 16 July 2014 - 07:14 PM

Gove will now play a key part in the election campaign, im not sure I would see this as a demotion in the sense of a reduction in responsibility. Keep your friends close but your enemies closer.

Gove will never lead the Conservative party.

Its my opinion that if they wheel Gove out at election time next year the tories will lose the election. The best thing Cameron can do with him is to lock him up in the the downing street cellar



#57 stimpo-and-kat

stimpo-and-kat
  • Coach
  • 2,576 posts

Posted 16 July 2014 - 07:16 PM

Its my opinion that if they wheel Gove out at election time next year the tories will lose the election. The best thing Cameron can do with him is to lock him up in the the downing street cellar


Gove will spend the next year lucking behind any tory MP making sure they stay on message

#58 nec

nec
  • Coach
  • 2,333 posts

Posted 16 July 2014 - 09:23 PM

The trouble with being the Education Secretary is that you can only really be judged some years after you have left office.

And very often the role of Education Secretary seems to be held by a politician hoping for bigger things who wants to cause as few ripples as possible with the teaching unions.

The only two Education Secretaries in the last 17 years who don't conform to that stereotype are David Blunkett (1997 to 2001) and Gove.

Both of them identified the fact that the education system is letting down working class kids, and both were vilified for their troubles by the National Union of Teachers.

Both of them thoroughly prepared their brief while they were in opposition. Blunkett once famously had to hide in a broom cupboard, even before he took office, to escape enraged NUT members.

The truth is that the Education Secretary is dealing with vested interests that see any changes as a threat to their members' terms and conditions, which is where their priorities lie. The only change they will accept is more money being thrown at them, which is what happened when Gordon Brown came to power. And Brown threw money at everything, creating a financial black hole.

But as long as most middle class parents can afford to buy houses in areas that give them access to schools with a decent intake, they will go along with this, without caring too much about schools in poor neighbourhoods.

That sense of smug satisfaction and a desire not to rock the boat seems apparent on this thread, but in my opinion it just isn't good enough.

Because of my role in our company I receive hundreds of emails from young kids at school in some of the less affluent Rugby League towns telling me they want to write about the game for a living, and asking for work experience. And it's heartbreaking to have to turn them down because they have never been taught even the basics of good English.

I don't know why this is, and why teachers can't instil some decent writing skills into these kids.

I feel strongly about this because I came from a school myself that had kids from a very poor background. I was the only boy in my school year who passed the old eleven-plus, so I can see what low expectations lead to.

Blunkett and Gove, in their own ways, both wanted to do something about this problem, and both tried.

In the meantime we are falling farther and farther behind our rivals when the educational attainments of our kids are measured against them.

And I can't see any other politician on the horizon who is prepared to do anything about it.

Anything for an easy life.

As much as I agree with you Martyn, as a teacher in a secondary school I had noticed a catastrophic decline in morale, deep difficulties in recruitment and increased early retirement. This is in schools that has jumped through every Gove hoop. Without the talented people to make the changes, the situation worsens. Picking a fight on every issue, attacking working conditions that attracted many away from other careers and hugely increasing workload causes people to leave the profession. Me included I'm afraid!:(
Rugby League is a sport that desperately needs to expand its geographical supporter base and its player base. This imperative means that all other requirements are secondary until this is done.

All power in the game should be with governing bodies, especially international governing bodies.

Without these actions we will remain a minor sport internationally and nationally.

#59 Trojan

Trojan
  • Coach
  • 15,135 posts

Posted 16 July 2014 - 09:34 PM

I failed the 11 plus.  Our teacher tried to make us feel better by saying that we hadn't "failed" we just weren't suitable for a grammar school education.  When i got to secondary modern, our studies were basically a pale imitation of those my mates at the grammar were doing.  We didn't do latin, but we did all the other subjects including French.  Trouble was we were using textbooks that had been at the school since the thirties.  We were intended to learn technical subjects, but we had no metalwork shop - the grammar school did. Our playing field sloped, we played soccer on it and the girls played hockey on it in the winter, in the summer we played cricket on it and it was our athletics track.  All the money, in our division of the West Riding,  was spent at the grammar school,  they had a metalwork shop, proper science labs, a gym, they had grass tennis courts, proper cricket, hockey and rugby pitches.  That was what was wrong with the 11 plus. If you failed, you truly were on the scrapheap.  My failure meant that in order to get some qualifications, I spent 2,3 sometimes 4 nights a week doing evening classes, until I was nearly twenty.

My children went to the local comp They both went to uni and got degrees - the first in either my or my wife's family to achieve this.My son has a good job and my daughter is a manager with a nationally known company.

Personally I think Gove has been following a dogmatic Tory policy in an attempt to prepare the education system for privatisation, should the Tories be re-elected. I'm glad he's gone. I only wish he'd taken iIDS with him!


"Your a one trick pony Trojan" - Parksider 10th March 2013

#60 tonyXIII

tonyXIII
  • Coach
  • 4,983 posts

Posted 17 July 2014 - 06:36 AM

I failed the 11 plus.  Our teacher tried to make us feel better by saying that we hadn't "failed" we just weren't suitable for a grammar school education.  When i got to secondary modern, our studies were basically a pale imitation of those my mates at the grammar were doing.  We didn't do latin, but we did all the other subjects including French.  Trouble was we were using textbooks that had been at the school since the thirties.  We were intended to learn technical subjects, but we had no metalwork shop - the grammar school did. Our playing field sloped, we played soccer on it and the girls played hockey on it in the winter, in the summer we played cricket on it and it was our athletics track.  All the money, in our division of the West Riding,  was spent at the grammar school,  they had a metalwork shop, proper science labs, a gym, they had grass tennis courts, proper cricket, hockey and rugby pitches.  That was what was wrong with the 11 plus. If you failed, you truly were on the scrapheap.  My failure meant that in order to get some qualifications, I spent 2,3 sometimes 4 nights a week doing evening classes, until I was nearly twenty.

My children went to the local comp They both went to uni and got degrees - the first in either my or my wife's family to achieve this.My son has a good job and my daughter is a manager with a nationally known company.

Personally I think Gove has been following a dogmatic Tory policy in an attempt to prepare the education system for privatisation, should the Tories be re-elected. I'm glad he's gone. I only wish he'd taken iIDS with him!

 

Absolutely agree. It was the funding division that made Secondary Moderns unworkable. I could bore everyone here to death by going on about my version of how to do it correctly, but it really doesn't belong on this thread.


Rethymno Rugby League Appreciation Society
Founder (and, so far, only) member.





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users