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Why shout SET before running forwards/backwards in a line

SET LINE SHOUT

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#41 Wellsy4HullFC

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 08:14 PM

Could the problem be that the Level 2 coaching course is geared towards adults as opposed to making it fun.


This is a huge issue in coach education in rugby league IMO. As someone who has coaching experience and certificates in many sports (part of my old job role), sports like basketball, tennis, squash and even fencing have tailored coaching certificates aimed at coaching children.

Looking at the RFL website, they only offer Level 1-4 certificates, and having taken the Level 2, despite it being an excellently run course, it was aimed at adults. Core skills, technical skills, tactical, nutrition, etc were all good for knowledge of the game (helped me as a player as well). However, knowledge of the game DOES NOT make you a good coach.

The RFL need to run a specific course aimed at teaching children, featuring areas educating coaches on how children learn; what is important to get/keep them interested; developing skills using game-based activities (not drills), giving examples and encouraging coaches to be creative; and dealing with behaviour positively.

There would be a huge increase in RL at junior level if coaches were educated better in coaching children, and not just coaching rugby league.
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#42 LordCharles

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 10:20 AM

Well said that man!



#43 davidhubball

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 01:31 PM

Yes but why did you skip out the Level 1 course - the level 1 course might have been more geared towards coaching children and teenagers and would have been better suited to your coaching. I'm not saying it would help much more - I'm just saying because you've only done the Level 2.

 

And did feed back your point to the RFL after the course? I'm sure your not the only one that feels the same.



#44 Wellsy4HullFC

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 04:10 PM

Yes but why did you skip out the Level 1 course - the level 1 course might have been more geared towards coaching children and teenagers and would have been better suited to your coaching. I'm not saying it would help much more - I'm just saying because you've only done the Level 2.

And did feed back your point to the RFL after the course? I'm sure your not the only one that feels the same.

The Level 1 is basically I simplified version of the next step. Coaching children shouldn't be seen as a step below coaching adults. It's a completely different skill set.

I've fed back after the coaching course and as well as after CPD sessions. I'm not the only one that has. I also emailed the RFL about whether they had intended on running these courses and offered to put some of the coaches I was employing at the time on to them. I heard nothing back.

Believe me, I've tried to get this going.
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#45 latchford albion

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 05:02 PM

Wellsy, how long ago did you take your level one qualification?  I did mine earlier this year, and I wouldn't consider it to be a simplified version of coaching aimed at adults.

 

The acronym used was 'CAYPABLE' - Children and Young Players Activity Based Learning - and the whole course was predicated on using games rather than drills to teach the core skills, with breakout activities interspersed, and related to the games focussing on stability, object control, and locomotion.  We were explicitly taught how to introduce these games, how to demonstrate skills (silently), and how to use questioning and feedback.

 

I have used this, I hope, successfully at my school, where I have started a club for Years 3 and 4 (age 7 to 9); the kids seem to like it anyway.  Hopefully by the time they reach the age that I work with at my club - under 15s - they will have the basics and game sense sorted.

 

Primary Rugby League have posted this video of a talk by Richard Shuttleworth  which puts it better than I have.



#46 zorquif

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 06:46 PM

Is this not an education thing. Adults and kids should probably be doing the same sort of stuff but for different amounts of time, surely? Bearing in mind that adults already know the basics but also have longer attention spans and probably know better why they are running some drills

#47 Wellsy4HullFC

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Posted 19 July 2014 - 08:55 AM

Wellsy, how long ago did you take your level one qualification? I did mine earlier this year, and I wouldn't consider it to be a simplified version of coaching aimed at adults.

The acronym used was 'CAYPABLE' - Children and Young Players Activity Based Learning - and the whole course was predicated on using games rather than drills to teach the core skills, with breakout activities interspersed, and related to the games focussing on stability, object control, and locomotion. We were explicitly taught how to introduce these games, how to demonstrate skills (silently), and how to use questioning and feedback.

I have used this, I hope, successfully at my school, where I have started a club for Years 3 and 4 (age 7 to 9); the kids seem to like it anyway. Hopefully by the time they reach the age that I work with at my club - under 15s - they will have the basics and game sense sorted.

Primary Rugby League have posted this video of a talk by Richard Shuttleworth which puts it better than I have.


I didn't do a Level One, as I said. It's been 7 years since I took my Level Two. I asked about the Level One, saying I intended to go on to the Level Two, and was advised to go straight on to it as I'd learn what you get in the Level One there anyways.

If, as you say, that's what the Level One was mainly based on, then at least there is something out there. However, that creates a new issue. If coaching children is seen as a lower "level", then it's going to be ignored. Levels should be used for the degree of learning, not the audience aimed at.

I didn't get any advice in the Level Two for coaching Primary aged children (I didn't ask for any as I wasn't coaching them at the time anyway). When I went on to coaching younger children, I ignorantly assumed that it was fairly transferable throughout the age groups. How I was wrong.

The RFL need SPECIFIC courses aimed at coaching Primary school children. It is the kids that will miss out the most by being coached by people who think they have been trained but are applying completely inappropriate methods for the age group (something which is not their fault).
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#48 Wellsy4HullFC

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Posted 19 July 2014 - 08:59 AM

Is this not an education thing. Adults and kids should probably be doing the same sort of stuff but for different amounts of time, surely? Bearing in mind that adults already know the basics but also have longer attention spans and probably know better why they are running some drills

Probably couldn't be further from the truth.

If you drill kids, they won't come again. They won't learn. They'll just switch off. Kids want to have fun and that is their prime motivation. That's not always the same for adults.
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#49 zorquif

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Posted 19 July 2014 - 09:35 AM

That's me telt

#50 davidhubball

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 02:09 PM

I have the max respect to any coach from the Hull area. At the Leeds Rhinos Rugby Challenge held in Skegness for teams aged 9 to 14, the teams from Hull always seem to do far better and you can tell when you watch them play that they've been well coached. Thanks for you advice.

Cheers

Dave



#51 zorquif

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 02:19 PM

i've been thinking about this. surely some drilling is beneficial? like how to tackle properly, how to take a high ball, even how to pick the ball up properly. maybe as a warm up?



#52 latchford albion

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 04:03 PM

Nothing wrong with drilling at all - just not exclusive, isolated drilling.  Level one tackling lessons start with protective falling, to the front, both sides and back then with tackling drills from the front and from both sides before putting it into games.



#53 davidhubball

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 06:16 PM

To Latch, regarding protective falling, I presume you mean fully padded up and/or with a soft-mat to fall on to practice tackling. My son's club (age 10s) has never provided any protection like this and another reason why I am currently looking elsewhere.

Cheers


Edited by davidhubball, 20 July 2014 - 06:18 PM.


#54 philipw

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 06:33 PM

Why would you have full padding for protected falling? Totally defeats the object....

#55 latchford albion

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 06:40 PM

As Philip says...  



#56 davidhubball

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 07:08 PM

And you are an expert child coach Philip? with a proven track record?



#57 zorquif

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 07:55 PM

Well if you'll only accept answers from expert child coaches with proven track records you're likely asking in the wrong place. The kids are falling on to grass, aren't they?

#58 davidhubball

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 08:25 PM

Well if you've never trained kids with and without padding how would you know if padding is a good idea or not. Stop acting like you know when your not an expert. Are you saying that there are no expert child coaches in these forums? of course not.

 

If you've ever trained in other high contact sports like Taekwondo, Karate, Judo, Jui-Jitsu etc, they all start with padding/thick mats. Theres no shame in that. Before long, after building up some confidence they reduce the padding, use thinner mats or even no mats etc...

If you trained say Jui-Jitsu to anyone on concrete floors with no padding (like in a real fight), many of the potential black belts would quit within a couple of sessions and would be put off for life.

Theres no shame is using padding at first - it makes it more fun for the kids.


Edited by davidhubball, 20 July 2014 - 08:26 PM.


#59 terrywebbisgod

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 08:30 PM

Well if you've never trained kids with and without padding how would you know if padding is a good idea or not. Stop acting like you know when your not an expert. Are you saying that there are no expert child coaches in these forums? of course not.

 

If you've ever trained in other high contact sports like Taekwondo, Karate, Judo, Jui-Jitsu etc, they all start with padding/thick mats. Theres no shame in that. Before long, after building up some confidence they reduce the padding, use thinner mats or even no mats etc...

If you trained say Jui-Jitsu to anyone on concrete floors with no padding (like in a real fight), many of the potential black belts would quit within a couple of sessions and would be put off for life.

Theres no shame is using padding at first - it makes it more fun for the kids.

No padding,learning to fall safely.That's all.


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#60 latchford albion

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 09:24 PM

Give us bubblewrap.






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