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Malaysian airliner crashes in Ukraine


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#1 Bedford Roughyed

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 03:44 PM

Is this what happens when you give separatist groups ground to air missiles? Nearly 300 people on board.

 

(Complete speculation of course!)


With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

#2 Martyn Sadler

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 03:56 PM

Is this what happens when you give separatist groups ground to air missiles? Nearly 300 people on board.

 

(Complete speculation of course!)

Although the full details haven't yet emerged this is tragic news.

 

It probably isn't wise to speculate too widely on the cause of the crash at this stage.



#3 Bedford Roughyed

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 05:10 PM

Separatists have removed tweets from a few hours ago bragging about downing a Ukrainian cargo plane.

 

Suspicion is on them at the moment.


With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

#4 GeordieSaint

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 06:15 PM

Separatists have removed tweets from a few hours ago bragging about downing a Ukrainian cargo plane.
 
Suspicion is on them at the moment.


They've also removed tweets stating they had captured the Buk Missile System, which is capable of downing aircraft up to 72'000ft. Throw in the fact that a Ukrainian was supposedly shot down yesterday either by Russia or rebels yesterday at more than 30,000ft, suspicion is firmly on them presently.

However, whoever has done this, my heart goes out to the families and relatives of those poor people on the plane.

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#5 Bedford Roughyed

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 10:06 PM

Known nationalities: 154 Dutch, 27 Australians, 23 Malaysians, 11 Indonesians, 6 UK, 4 Germans; 4 Belgians, 3 Filipinos, 1 Canadian


With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

#6 markleeds

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 05:51 AM

The ###### has hit the fan now! No doubt about it, where will it go from here?

#7 GeordieSaint

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 07:13 AM

Known nationalities: 154 Dutch, 27 Australians, 23 Malaysians, 11 Indonesians, 6 UK, 4 Germans; 4 Belgians, 3 Filipinos, 1 Canadian


9 Brits according to BBC Breakfast with over a 100 passengers being leading AIDS experts on route to a conference in Australia.

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#8 terrywebbisgod

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 08:03 AM

Apparently the missile launch will have been tracked by military radar and satellite systems,who is going to point the finger at who outside of the Russians pointing the finger at the Ukraine and vice versa.
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#9 RidingPie

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 08:24 AM

Its also been reported that the aircrafts black box has been sent to Moscow.

 

Things could get real ugly real quick here. Although this has been building for some time.

 

My thoughts go out to the families of the victims. 



#10 ckn

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 08:57 AM

A hugely tragic incident that will be far harder to prove than people are suggesting above, "evidence" from either side is fairly easy to manipulate if you control that data to start with.

 

What it may do though is just shock the Russians into stepping back from Ukraine now that, in my opinion, either they or their funded separatists have screwed up so badly.  It'll just encourage the Americans and EU to step up sanctions to yet a higher level, Russia despite their bluster can't afford the sanctions in place now and will have to either make a conscious effort to tough it out or work out some sort of face-saving compromise.  Maybe a few sacrificial separatists, much like the Lockerbie bombers, offered up to secure peace.


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#11 Copa

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 10:02 AM

Disgusting. Giving complex weapons to simple people.

#12 gingerjon

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 12:19 PM

Without taking away from the fact that the people who fired the missile are to blame: what the **** was a passenger plane doing flying directly over a war zone?


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#13 Copa

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 12:24 PM

Without taking away from the fact that the people who fired the missile are to blame: what the **** was a passenger plane doing flying directly over a war zone?

apparently it was deemed safe by some aviation bodies and numerous airlines were regularly flying that route.

#14 GeordieSaint

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 12:44 PM

I see some poor Australian family have had a double tragedy this year losing family members in the missing MH disaster and now further family members in the Ukraine incident. That beggars belief and is simply unreal...

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#15 Copa

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 12:59 PM

I'm heading put to Sydney airport soon to pick up family flying home from Europe (Cathay)

Apparently family and friends of those murdered in the Ukraine are going to the various airports around Australia just to see if their loved ones will still walk through the gates..

Around 100 aids/hiv researchers were on the flight heading to a global conference in Melbourne.

#16 Phil

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 01:21 PM

I see some poor Australian family have had a double tragedy this year losing family members in the missing MH disaster and now further family members in the Ukraine incident. That beggars belief and is simply unreal...

 

Bloody hell that's just beyond awful


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#17 Bedford Roughyed

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 01:51 PM

Without taking away from the fact that the people who fired the missile are to blame: what the **** was a passenger plane doing flying directly over a war zone?

 

They fly over war zones all the time.  The 'experts' deemed that it was dangerous below about 25,000ft, add a margin of error and they decreed that above 32,000ft was OK.  That was based on the Russians and Ukrainians not doing anything stupid, and the separatists only having shoulder launched systems.


With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

#18 ckn

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 01:59 PM

They fly over war zones all the time.  The 'experts' deemed that it was dangerous below about 25,000ft, add a margin of error and they decreed that above 32,000ft was OK.  That was based on the Russians and Ukrainians not doing anything stupid, and the separatists only having shoulder launched systems.

Unless technology has left me completely behind in a few short years then the very best hand-held surface to air missiles can do around 10km which would mean an idiot with a hand-held one would have to be almost directly underneath the plane at 32,000ft to have the tiniest hope of hitting it.  The thinking is that those who control the larger missiles with far larger ranges that require proper missile platforms are likely to be properly trained and realise that a civilian plane in an international flight path is not fair game.

 

What that does mean is that it's highly unlikely that this was just an untrained separatist with a hand-held missile making a mistake.  Undoubtedly it was a mistake but realistically can only have been done by a properly trained crew with regular military equipment.


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#19 RidingPie

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 02:09 PM

Unless technology has left me completely behind in a few short years then the very best hand-held surface to air missiles can do around 10km which would mean an idiot with a hand-held one would have to be almost directly underneath the plane at 32,000ft to have the tiniest hope of hitting it.  The thinking is that those who control the larger missiles with far larger ranges that require proper missile platforms are likely to be properly trained and realise that a civilian plane in an international flight path is not fair game.

 

What that does mean is that it's highly unlikely that this was just an untrained separatist with a hand-held missile making a mistake.  Undoubtedly it was a mistake but realistically can only have been done by a properly trained crew with regular military equipment.

 

Possibly, and I know this is supposition of the highest, but were a bunch of untrained separatists to get their hands on such equipment, then they may have been able to figure out how to fire it (I'm guessing any control interface wouldn't be too complicated... mostly supposition again on my part but I did do some programming on weapons aircraft... quite a while ago though). I'm not certain that it had to be a trained crew. Or at least not a highly trained crew at any rate.


Edited by RidingPie, 18 July 2014 - 02:09 PM.


#20 Bedford Roughyed

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 04:13 PM

Ukraine had conscription until 2013, so most males will have had some military training.  Therefore it's not too far fetched an idea to say a separatist militia could find someone to operate such equipment with little or no refresher training.


With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!




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