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The all-new never-ending League Restructure debate (Many merged threads)


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#41 wirecab

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 08:28 PM

What a terrible mess.

We may well have appeased some fans of the big Championship clubs and we may have widened some interest at the end of the season. But at what cost?

It will be completely impenetrable to the casual fan, who won't hang around to have the context explained. They'll have already switched over to the darts.

 

Have to agree. I have two science degrees and I'm struggling to make sense of this. Keep it simple if you want it to succeed!

This is over complicated and I can see that many people on the forum are in support but if you are on this forum then you are probably a 'die-hard' rl fan and take the time to understand the subtle nuances of bringing in 'championship' clubs (I'm in favour of this) and other perceived benefits.

 

Joe public won't take the time to bother with this- over complicated, over fussy and to me is just the RFL flexing their muscles to say "Whhhooooooo! Look at us aren't we important".

 

As said above- KEEP IT SIMPLE. This is a dog's dinner and is fiddling for fiddling's sake.

 

Call me a dinosaur but can't we just have a simple league with the top team at the end of the season being crowned champions. Stuff the play-offs- we saw where it got Wire on Friday by resting players for the end of season shenanigans (no disrespect meant to Widnes- you won well, fair and square)



#42 redjonn

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 08:55 PM

Won't last that long. As soon as it becomes clear that the bottom 4 SL clubs in 2015 will retain their places for 2016 (ie half way through the qualifiers) there will be calls for change. In fact, if there are a couple of big scores in the first week of qualifiers we won't even have to wait for the halfway mark.

 

The first x3 places could in theory be assured early in the qualifiers but the 4th team can't be. That is the 4th team that goes in SL or continues in SL is only determined by what they call the million pound game between 4th and 5th teams in the qualifiers league position........ daft to me but I guess it gives a SL team a 2nd bite if they manage to hiccup along the way... well it seems to me they are doing the best to make it as hard as possible for a championship team to escape.

 

No matter the points difference between the 4th and 5th placed teams in the qualifier league they will have to play off for the final place in the following SL season


Edited by redjonn, 24 July 2014 - 08:56 PM.


#43 redjonn

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 08:59 PM

Have to agree. I have two science degrees and I'm struggling to make sense of this. Keep it simple if you want it to succeed!

This is over complicated and I can see that many people on the forum are in support but if you are on this forum then you are probably a 'die-hard' rl fan and take the time to understand the subtle nuances of bringing in 'championship' clubs (I'm in favour of this) and other perceived benefits.

 

Joe public won't take the time to bother with this- over complicated, over fussy and to me is just the RFL flexing their muscles to say "Whhhooooooo! Look at us aren't we important".

 

As said above- KEEP IT SIMPLE. This is a dog's dinner and is fiddling for fiddling's sake.

 

Call me a dinosaur but can't we just have a simple league with the top team at the end of the season being crowned champions. Stuff the play-offs- we saw where it got Wire on Friday by resting players for the end of season shenanigans (no disrespect meant to Widnes- you won well, fair and square)

 

Your last paragraph... Tony Smith (and others) approach to saving players for business end of season as they call it does make me always re-consider whether I should take a similar approach. That is be much more selective from an attendance perspective and maybe only attend play-off games.   It really does annoy me.



#44 EastLondonMike

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 09:42 PM

New fans to the game will see the many different structures and names and just lose interest, not so much in the games played but certainly in the result of the win/loss. Which may stop some people with an interest in RL really taking a deeper interest.

All sounds more complicated and contrived than
It needs to be. Trying to please everyone and by doing so creating something that's just a bit baffling. SL play offs, super 8, qualifiers, million pound game, magic weekend, summer bash, world club challenge, challenge cup, championship league one.. Is there any game next year that doesn't have a specific name?!.. A bit uneccessary for me.

Have always been of the opinion that inside three years we'll be hearing calls for change to this system and we'll be back to square one.

Will be interesting to see how it goes, but all these changes have left me just thinking I'll just await the outcome of the a lot of games rather than taking a direct interest leading up to them.

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#45 keighley

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 09:50 PM

There's going to be chaos if the bottom four SL teams get through the P&R playoffs for the next three years and nobody is promoted. Within five years we'll be having another re-structuring.


The sooner the better. One or two up and down p and r for me.

#46 The Parksider

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 10:00 PM

The solution to the problem of semi-pro clubs finding the gap to SL too big to bridge seems to be to simply make promotion difficult. You have to beat professional teams with a semi-pro squad to go up. It's just a weak attempt at appeasing those who want proper P&R. What happens if after three seasons not one team has actually been promoted?

 

Ooooh a naysayer!

 

What happens is the new eight club Superleague simply rolls on and on.

 

What clearly will happen is the top clubs will continue to stay in the spotlight as they play their big games against each other three times a season or more

 

Remember 2004

 

Leeds 26 Bradford 18 att:21,225

Bradford 12 Leeds 26 att: 23.375

Leeds 40 Bradford 12 att: 21,225

Leeds 12 Bradford 26 att: 21,525 (QSF)

Bradford 8 Leeds 16 att: 65,547 (Final)

 

Yet somehow we are told by KPMG/RFL the "radical" new system which is a tyred old re-tread (geddit?) will be the saviour of the crowd slump.

 

It's a case of if you want P & R then go play it at the bottom of the garden and leave the big boys to play the real game. I wouldn't mind but the radical RFL have lost the biggest boy of all. 

 

Time for the RFL to resign (no not re-sign)!



#47 Manx RL

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 10:02 PM

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#48 keighley

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 10:19 PM

Ooooh a naysayer!
 
What happens is the new eight club Superleague simply rolls on and on.
 
What clearly will happen is the top clubs will continue to stay in the spotlight as they play their big games against each other three times a season or more
 
Remember 2004
 
Leeds 26 Bradford 18 att:21,225
Bradford 12 Leeds 26 att: 23.375
Leeds 40 Bradford 12 att: 21,225
Leeds 12 Bradford 26 att: 21,525 (QSF)
Bradford 8 Leeds 16 att: 65,547 (Final)
 
Yet somehow we are told by KPMG/RFL the "radical" new system which is a tyred old re-tread (geddit?) will be the saviour of the crowd slump.
 
It's a case of if you want P & R then go play it at the bottom of the garden and leave the big boys to play the real game. I wouldn't mind but the radical RFL have lost the biggest boy of all. 
 
Time for the RFL to resign (no not re-sign)!


What were the attendances for Leed v Bradford games this season ? Bradford are no longer one of the big boys.

#49 Cake Tiger

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 10:46 PM

Thought someone might have mentioned the increase in the number of games the new structure leads to. 

 

The number of matches the top clubs will play under the various systems are as follows:

 

Super League 2014: 27 + 3/4 playoffs + a potential 5 CC games

 

Super League 2015: 30 + 2 playoffs + a potential 4/5 CC games

 

NRL: 24 + 3/4 playoffs

 

 

Player burnout will be an issue. We'll see more players being rested mid-season, which is annoying for fans. 

 

Thnk the uneven distribution of home games is really bad - would have been better to have the Magic weekend as the first round after the split.



#50 yipyee

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 10:49 PM

What were the attendances for Leed v Bradford games this season ? Bradford are no longer one of the big boys.


Bradford are still one of the big boys....as are man u
Sheffield won the league last year and are not one of the big boys same as hudds...

Bradford will bounce back, they have the best academy in Yorkshire and will keep churning out players, no dual reg for them!

#51 Wellsy4HullFC

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 11:30 PM

What's complicated about it?

If you get down to the nitty gritty then it's always going to be complicated. Try celeb planning the qualifiers for the Champions League, it how the Super Bowl fixtures work. No shortage of fans there.
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#52 Jim from Oz

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 12:45 AM

I have said this many times on these forums before, and I will say it again here, the new structure is - quite simply - LUDICROUS, and way too complicated.

 

I confidently predict yet another restructure within three years.



#53 roughyedspud

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 02:11 AM

they just need to get rid of the daft super 8s...

have a top 6 super league play offs

have a top 6 championship play offs

and then championship champions v super league wooden spooners "million pound" game

keep it simple

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#54 gingerjon

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 05:55 AM

Thought someone might have mentioned the increase in the number of games the new structure leads to. 

 

The number of matches the top clubs will play under the various systems are as follows:

 

Super League 2014: 27 + 3/4 playoffs + a potential 5 CC games

 

Super League 2015: 30 + 2 playoffs + a potential 4/5 CC games

 

NRL: 24 + 3/4 playoffs

 

 

Player burnout will be an issue. We'll see more players being rested mid-season, which is annoying for fans. 

 

Thnk the uneven distribution of home games is really bad - would have been better to have the Magic weekend as the first round after the split.

 

Those extra games have seen the Challenge Cup further weakened and removed the space for either a mid season international or the return of a Northern Rail Cup competition.

 

Even if player burnout wasn't an issue you've a couple of good reasons above for not wanting to just add more games.


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#55 Lounge Room Lizard

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 07:46 AM

Rugby League should be a simple game on and off the field. Sadly the RFL as well as the Clubs want to make things complicated as possible to make things interesting. Best Thing would be to going back to making the Rugby League the simple game it was on and off the field. Try explaining the System new or has a flirting interest in Rugby League. Try explaining the obstruction rule or why the NRL, SL and Internationals all have different rules for the same game. It seems the People running our game are trying to chase some Utopia that will make the game so much better and that Clubs will be happy making loads of money in front of sellout crowds. Ist not going to happen and I think many People are just fedup with the way the game is going. How do we intend to bring the Sport to a new audience when we make life so complicated and have no real idea where we want the game to go.



#56 Wellsy4HullFC

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 07:58 AM

I have said this many times on these forums before, and I will say it again here, the new structure is - quite simply - LUDICROUS, and way too complicated.

I confidently predict yet another restructure within three years.

What is complicated about it?
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#57 redjonn

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 09:10 AM

What is complicated about it?

 

A sort of conversation follows between a Non RL fan but thinking of watching his local team and a regular RL fan who thinks he understands the system......

 

I hear you have P&R back in RL

 

Yep, well they like to call it jeopardy.

 

Whys that then

 

Well ermm how best can I explain… it gives the chance of P&R but isn’t as straight forward as top and bottom teams being promoted or relegated.

 

Hows it work then

 

Depends upon which league…

 

Oh, we have a team down here,,, oxford something. How that league work

 

After all games are played the team finishing top and second play-off for promotion. The winner gets promoted.    However, the team that loses gets a second chance.  They play with the teams that finished 3rd, 4th, and 5th in a set of play offs – like football play-offs for promotion.  The losing team from earlier plays 5th and 3rd plays 4th. The two winners play-off in a promotion final.

 

Could you repeat that…..

 

Yada yada yada…

 

That the same for the other league then…

 

Erm no… they do something different.  The top 4 are joined by the bottom 4 of the Super League.   They play in a what is known as the qualifiers league (I think) for 4 teams to be in the following seasons super league. 

 

How that work then… the top 4 get to play in SL then,,,

 

Mmmmm not quite but almost….. The top 3 are into SL… But the 4th placed team plays the 5th placed team in a play-off for the ermmmm 4th team to be promoted.  

 

So  the 4th place get promoted…

 

Errr sorry...... for the 4th team of the 4 that get to play in Super League the following season is determined by a 4th and 5th place play-off.

 

OK ,,, pause so 4 teams are promoted then

 

Mmm well it could be the same 4 teams that were in Super League that get to play in Super League the next season

 

Oh … so where is the promotion then…

 

Well it could be one of the team in the lower league that wins one of the four places. Remember there are 8 teams made up of bottom 4 from Super League and 4 from the lower league.. the championship…

 

Oh,,,pause….. scratching head…well ..oh lets not go through it again… but why does the top team have to play the second team again…

 

That was the other league known as championship league one for promotion to the championship.   Not sure but I think its because not all teams play the same fixtures. That is a team can play different set of teams twice than the other team…

 

What….

 

They don’t play all other teams twice… they may play some teams once.  The other team may play a different set of teams twice….

 

Yeah right….. I’ll not bother....... get the pints in...

 

 

PS. I'm sure someone can come up with a better conversational exchange...


Edited by redjonn, 25 July 2014 - 09:13 AM.


#58 The Future is League

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 09:21 AM

There's going to be chaos if the bottom four SL teams get through the P&R playoffs for the next three years and nobody is promoted. Within five years we'll be having another re-structuring.

It won't go for 5 years trust me before plans B, C ,D,.E. are brought in. The RFL don't have a good record with sticking with things.



#59 Scubby

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 09:22 AM

Those extra games have seen the Challenge Cup further weakened and removed the space for either a mid season international or the return of a Northern Rail Cup competition.

 

Even if player burnout wasn't an issue you've a couple of good reasons above for not wanting to just add more games.

 

As expected, there has been no mention of Internationals within this structure. The least I was hoping for was the announcement of a rep weekend. But, as mentioned, how on earth could this fit in?


Edited by Scubby, 25 July 2014 - 09:40 AM.


#60 redjonn

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 09:24 AM

Whilst supping his pint and in a thoughtful haze the chap sudden looks as if he grasped something and asks...

 

In the league where the top team play the second team.    

 

erm yeah..worried expression cause he sorry he's got into this conversation as he's exhausted his understanding....

 

The top team losers in the 1st v 2nd ... well say they losers again in one of the games with the 3rd 4th and 5th teams... then that means the top team doesn't get promoted.

 

mmmm yeah, possible..

 

The 5th team could be promoted but not the top team...

 

your round....


Edited by redjonn, 25 July 2014 - 09:32 AM.