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#161 Scubby

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 04:03 PM

And would you be happy paying your hard earned money to watch a team who sometimes didn't compete purposely. Not me.

 

Strange statement. I suppose you didn't go to Widnes for the Quarter Final then?



#162 Ivarr the Boneless

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 04:23 PM

Oxford season ticket holder here. I live in Hampshire and previously have had a season ticket at both Broncos and Skolars.

Oxford have openly stated they have no interest in Superleague. They don't think it is financially viable. At the moment the struggle is to be stable at the current level. (We aren't the only KC1 team in that boat.)

Oxford is not a rugby area. London Welsh all but gave away tickets to the home play off leg and still pulled in a disappointing crowd.

The aim at Oxford is to develop good players and hopefully pass the best on to bigger clubs. JJ Baird trained with Wakefield, Sean Morris trialled with Broncos. The number of northern based lads in the squad is down a lot on last season. The likes of Jack Briggs, an RU convert who was sent to learn the game at Oxford Cavaliers, have emerged as proven KC1 players.

There is actually a RL millionaire living near Iffley Road but Ian Lenagan has other priorities.

The key bit is that the likes of Oxford bring new players into the sport, as have Skolars who have seen several juniors turn pro at Broncos. That is how the sport can win.

Realistically, if Oxford have a future, it is as a development club. That doesn't bother me. I went to one game last season and fell in love with the place. Nice place, nice ground and 17 blokes who tried. As opposed to 5 or 6 who just tried my patience at recent seasons down Broncos. I have watched Broncos this season, both home and away, but enjoy watching Oxford more. Southern RL desperately needs a decent London club and academy system to draw juniors in though.

What Oxford are not is a future SL club, I'm not sure that's a bad thing.

#163 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 04:48 PM

And no team from France ever made SL before Catalans. No team from Sheffield won the Challenge cup before Sheffield. No man was ever on the moon before the Yanks did it. Nobody had beaten the Yanks at Olympic basketball before the Russians did it.

Fiji never made the semi finals of the world cup until 2008, then they did it again.

The fact is that because something has never been done is no reason to say it never will be.

Also, I am not too certain of this, but did Featherstone on entering the league in 1920 something go from being a tremendously successful amateur club to eventually become champions of the RL ?


All kinds of things have happened to them during their history
I believe manningham were the first champions of the nru.

Are you suggesting that sport 93 years ago was in the slightest way the same as it is now? I notice that royal engineers didn't get very far in the challenge cup this season , why ever not.

How about checking out the challenges and issues that rugby league faces now and in the future rather than drawing meaningless analogies

At elite level the sport has a broadcasting deal that brings the game to the nation at least twice a week, along with the elite end of other major sports , but rugby league's elite level has a narrow geographical and demographic spread which contributed to an image that possible supporters players and sponsors might and often do find off putting. It certainly puts me off and I'm a fan (but not a 'proper fan' obviously)

We have just got rid of two clubs that have contributed to the addressing of these issues...and we should be angry at them as much as anything else,

From now on we can only get one of them back
From now on if we don't do that we have a choice of clubs to join the elite who narrow that geographical and demographic profile, who almost certainly be unable to compete for what is bound to be a dust round one season presence in that elite.

And of course the one club that is left that represents progress in the areas that I've mentioned could go if they have a poor season.
This might suit you and others, but I think its pathetic on more levels than an album
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WELCOME TO THE ROYSTON VASEY SUPER LEAGUE 2015
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#164 The Parksider

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 10:51 PM

crusaders & south wales for that matter will do more for welsh RL while being in the championship & league 1,with squads full of welshmen, than having a team in SL full of dire overseas players...

 

They just won't.

 

Check out North Wales Crusaders, they are an M62 team. 

 

Check out south wales - they are bottom of the RFL with one win and a recent "crowd" of 150.

 

It's a terrible post Spud, Celtic Crusaders may have used overseas players but some darn good Welsh players were on board with them.........



#165 yipyee

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 11:15 PM

crusaders & south wales for that matter will do more for welsh RL while being in the championship & league 1,with squads full of welshmen, than having a team in SL full of dire overseas players...


crusaders had welshmen....most of the good uns went to wigan.... crusaders now in champ and champ1 have very few welshmen.....

#166 The Parksider

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 11:16 PM

I also think it is tenuous to say the least to say that Oxford, despite having no plan for getting to SL, or even intention to get to SL, simply by existing are a plan to expand Super League.

 

Tenuous? Your being too kind. This rubbish about small sides who grow our game in non RL areas being potential SL sides is just that - complete rubbish.

 

Union has had even growth across the country over 100 years plus and Union only has a small number of big clubs who have been thus for years.Despite union having a good infrastructure geographically spread, they aren't seeing little clubs growing and growing into Giants. Why should league?

 

Look at the "crowds" last year at gateshead(186) Gloucester(195) Hemel (299) and south wales (343)

 

Look at the crowds 1996 at Prescot (407) Chorley (416) Carlisle (520) and south wales again (1,331).

 

At that time people thought South Wales would get an SL place so they turned up. Today they know they won't so they don't turn up. Look at the better crowds for the 1995 fledglings yet where are they all today?



#167 yipyee

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 11:19 PM

Crusaders went from nothing to the Championship in two years winning a couple of trophies along the way, getting decent attendances for cc1and jump starting the junior game in North Wales.

Their next step was to consolidate at Championship level and see if they could take a tilt at SL eventually. This shows how a entry level club could conceivably move up the ladder.

Unfortunately they have fallen foul to the 5 team relegation bonanza in the Championship this season due to reorganisation but I think they showed how progress could be made. The step to SL would have been huge and needed finance etc but a platform from nothing had been built.


crusaders were a SL club....put them in a start up league and its no surprise after a year bedding in they ended up the big team! Looking at backing, stadia, coaches they got on board etc... and historical fans from the SL years....

#168 The Parksider

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 11:20 PM

Oxford season ticket holder here. I live in Hampshire and previously have had a season ticket at both Broncos and Skolars.

Oxford have openly stated they have no interest in Superleague. They don't think it is financially viable. At the moment the struggle is to be stable at the current level. (We aren't the only KC1 team in that boat.)

Oxford is not a rugby area. London Welsh all but gave away tickets to the home play off leg and still pulled in a disappointing crowd.

The aim at Oxford is to develop good players and hopefully pass the best on to bigger clubs. JJ Baird trained with Wakefield, Sean Morris trialled with Broncos. The number of northern based lads in the squad is down a lot on last season. The likes of Jack Briggs, an RU convert who was sent to learn the game at Oxford Cavaliers, have emerged as proven KC1 players.

The key bit is that the likes of Oxford bring new players into the sport, as have Skolars who have seen several juniors turn pro at Broncos. That is how the sport can win.

Realistically, if Oxford have a future, it is as a development club. That doesn't bother me. I went to one game last season and fell in love with the place. Nice place, nice ground and 17 blokes who tried. As opposed to 5 or 6 who just tried my patience at recent seasons down Broncos. I have watched Broncos this season, both home and away, but enjoy watching Oxford more. Southern RL desperately needs a decent London club and academy system to draw juniors in though.

What Oxford are not is a future SL club, I'm not sure that's a bad thing.

 

What a wonderful breath of realism you bring to the debate, albeit a derailed thread about Catalans. 



#169 gutterfax

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 02:52 AM

would anyone fancy leigh or featherstone to beat london this season?

I fancy London to beat both those teams next year and that's what matters. The only other comparison would be the actual results from 2013 when we beat the best 2 sides in the championship whils we were the worst team in SL. This year, I reckon I cod get my local amateur team to beat london

#170 Yosser

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 07:38 AM

Oxford season ticket holder here. I live in Hampshire and previously have had a season ticket at both Broncos and Skolars.

Oxford have openly stated they have no interest in Superleague. They don't think it is financially viable. At the moment the struggle is to be stable at the current level. (We aren't the only KC1 team in that boat.)

Oxford is not a rugby area. London Welsh all but gave away tickets to the home play off leg and still pulled in a disappointing crowd.

The aim at Oxford is to develop good players and hopefully pass the best on to bigger clubs. JJ Baird trained with Wakefield, Sean Morris trialled with Broncos. The number of northern based lads in the squad is down a lot on last season. The likes of Jack Briggs, an RU convert who was sent to learn the game at Oxford Cavaliers, have emerged as proven KC1 players.

There is actually a RL millionaire living near Iffley Road but Ian Lenagan has other priorities.

The key bit is that the likes of Oxford bring new players into the sport, as have Skolars who have seen several juniors turn pro at Broncos. That is how the sport can win.

Realistically, if Oxford have a future, it is as a development club. That doesn't bother me. I went to one game last season and fell in love with the place. Nice place, nice ground and 17 blokes who tried. As opposed to 5 or 6 who just tried my patience at recent seasons down Broncos. I have watched Broncos this season, both home and away, but enjoy watching Oxford more. Southern RL desperately needs a decent London club and academy system to draw juniors in though.

What Oxford are not is a future SL club, I'm not sure that's a bad thing.

Best post of the week.

 

Some people are only happy if their team win Super League.

 

What a breath of fresh air to hear of your acceptance of reality and contentment with the contribution Oxford make to the bigger picture.



#171 keighley

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 01:24 PM

Strange statement. I suppose you didn't go to Widnes for the Quarter Final then?

 

Keighley played a weakened team. I don't think anybody thought the players on the field went through the motions and didn't compete. In fact there were many posts on this forum praising the effort put out by the players.



#172 Scubby

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 01:31 PM

Keighley played a weakened team. I don't think anybody thought the players on the field went through the motions and didn't compete. In fact there were many posts on this forum praising the effort put out by the players.

 

Keighley didn't compete because they chose to select a team that couldn't compete. After 15 minutes it was over. Brownie points for trying - whoopee.



#173 keighley

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 01:35 PM

Oxford season ticket holder here. I live in Hampshire and previously have had a season ticket at both Broncos and Skolars.

Oxford have openly stated they have no interest in Superleague. They don't think it is financially viable. At the moment the struggle is to be stable at the current level. (We aren't the only KC1 team in that boat.)

Oxford is not a rugby area. London Welsh all but gave away tickets to the home play off leg and still pulled in a disappointing crowd.

The aim at Oxford is to develop good players and hopefully pass the best on to bigger clubs. JJ Baird trained with Wakefield, Sean Morris trialled with Broncos. The number of northern based lads in the squad is down a lot on last season. The likes of Jack Briggs, an RU convert who was sent to learn the game at Oxford Cavaliers, have emerged as proven KC1 players.

There is actually a RL millionaire living near Iffley Road but Ian Lenagan has other priorities.

The key bit is that the likes of Oxford bring new players into the sport, as have Skolars who have seen several juniors turn pro at Broncos. That is how the sport can win.

Realistically, if Oxford have a future, it is as a development club. That doesn't bother me. I went to one game last season and fell in love with the place. Nice place, nice ground and 17 blokes who tried. As opposed to 5 or 6 who just tried my patience at recent seasons down Broncos. I have watched Broncos this season, both home and away, but enjoy watching Oxford more. Southern RL desperately needs a decent London club and academy system to draw juniors in though.

What Oxford are not is a future SL club, I'm not sure that's a bad thing.

 

 

Maybe that's the plan for Oxford and sensible it is. You cant run before you can walk. This may be the summit of achievement for RL in Oxford but, alternatively, down the road, many years down the road, who knows.

 

The other CC! clubs though might have bigger visions and long term aims than those of Oxford. Each to their own.

 

A last point. It is dangerous to come on here and laud the virtues, ambiance and entertainment values of CC1 rugby. The power elite on here, or those who think they are such, are absolutely 1000% convinced that SL is the be all and end all of RL and there is no value at all in the game below that level. There could be a backlash.

 

Your saving grace though could be the fact that Oxford are in their place and are content to stay there and never pose a threat to the higher orders.



#174 keighley

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 01:52 PM

All kinds of things have happened to them during their history
I believe manningham were the first champions of the nru.

Are you suggesting that sport 93 years ago was in the slightest way the same as it is now? I notice that royal engineers didn't get very far in the challenge cup this season , why ever not.

How about checking out the challenges and issues that rugby league faces now and in the future rather than drawing meaningless analogies

At elite level the sport has a broadcasting deal that brings the game to the nation at least twice a week, along with the elite end of other major sports , but rugby league's elite level has a narrow geographical and demographic spread which contributed to an image that possible supporters players and sponsors might and often do find off putting. It certainly puts me off and I'm a fan (but not a 'proper fan' obviously)

We have just got rid of two clubs that have contributed to the addressing of these issues...and we should be angry at them as much as anything else,

From now on we can only get one of them back
From now on if we don't do that we have a choice of clubs to join the elite who narrow that geographical and demographic profile, who almost certainly be unable to compete for what is bound to be a dust round one season presence in that elite.

And of course the one club that is left that represents progress in the areas that I've mentioned could go if they have a poor season.
This might suit you and others, but I think its pathetic on more levels than an album
By Yes

 

Your mentions of Manningham another big failure from Bradford by the way) and The Royal Engineers just reinforces my point. Things change, so to say that things have nevefr been so can never be  is just not true. Who would have thought that the RL champions would win the FA cup.?

 

Who would have thought that professionalism in soccer would doom the great Royal Engineers team.?

 

I would also suggest that the sport does not have a broadcasting deal that brings it to the nation twice a week. Compared to the BBC Sky have minimal market penetration. If the money was similar, the game would be much better served by being on terrestrial TV.

 

As for Bradford contributing to ridding the game of its Northern parochial image. Are you for real. I was born in Bradford and it is the very definition of northern and parochial, n ot that puts me off like it apparently does yourself.

 

There is no reason that both Bradford and London cannot be promoted if they get it right. Catalans also should rebound if they should be relegated which is highly unlikely.

 

Personally, I think there should be a return to straight p and r to give these clubs an even  better chance of promotion and a lesser chance of relegation.



#175 The Parksider

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 02:49 PM

crusaders were a SL club....put them in a start up league and its no surprise after a year bedding in they ended up the big team! Looking at backing, stadia, coaches they got on board etc... and historical fans from the SL years....

 

I note the quote in your post saying North Wales Crusaders were an entry level club that climbed the ladder.

 

As you say they were an ex-SL club, and they had enough directors money to buy in a team from the Lancashire M62 SL clubs to be able to get out of CC1. Big deal.

 

Once there they have struggled and are no better than Swinton and Rochdale which is to be expected as they get their players from the same place as these clubs do - SL cast offs.

 

They got 538 fans for their recent Donny game that's way down on their 3,377 2011 SL average. I've all the time in the world for the Crusaders but no time for them being bulled up as climbing the ladder to Superleague. The same people have talked the same rubbish over Oxford until one of their fans put them right.

 

People need to stop placing the burden of a non existent SL ambition on our smaller clubs shoulders just because they harbour the same personal ambition for their own small club. 



#176 nadera78

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 05:26 PM

Maybe that's the plan for Oxford and sensible it is. You cant run before you can walk. This may be the summit of achievement for RL in Oxford but, alternatively, down the road, many years down the road, who knows.

 

The other CC! clubs though might have bigger visions and long term aims than those of Oxford. Each to their own.

 

A last point. It is dangerous to come on here and laud the virtues, ambiance and entertainment values of CC1 rugby. The power elite on here, or those who think they are such, are absolutely 1000% convinced that SL is the be all and end all of RL and there is no value at all in the game below that level. There could be a backlash.

 

Your saving grace though could be the fact that Oxford are in their place and are content to stay there and never pose a threat to the higher orders.

1) Oxford do not want to run, they want to walk.

 

2) Says the man who wants every club to be fighting to get into the SL, even those that have no interest in doing so.


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Jean Roque, Calendrier-revue du Racing-Club Albigeois, 1958-1959

#177 The Parksider

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 07:22 PM

1) Oxford do not want to run, they want to walk.

 

2) Says the man who wants every club to be fighting to get into the SL, even those that have no interest in doing so.

 

1) They are free to do as they wish. I know a local soccer club who had ambition but when the next step included ground standards, then that was as far as they could get, but they didn't disband. I know a top Sheffield amateur soccer club who have a top ground, and they have toyed with going semi pro for some years but the problem is if they do every penny they earn will leave the club in players pockets.

 

It's a really strange phenomenon that a few on here keep projecting a future in which small clubs rise to the top on fresh air. I can only think that it's fans of clubs who are passionate about their club to be in Superleague who try to argue this way.......... 

 

2) But the problem with the fantasy of Keighley, Dewsbury, Featherstone, Leigh, Sheffield, Halifax and Hemel replacing Bradford, Wakefield, Leeds, Wigan, Saints, Hull and Broncos in SL is it would obviously be damaging to the game, but stuff the game, their fantasies come first.

 

Since 1996 and the advent of SL the worst posts I see on here are posts that say "If my club merged I would walk away from the game" or "If there was a closed shop SL I would walk away from the game".

 

You know, who cares if some people only have a narrow interest in the game  and want to walk away if the game doesn't cut it's throat to suit them


Edited by The Parksider, 02 August 2014 - 07:25 PM.


#178 keighley

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 08:38 PM

crusaders were a SL club....put them in a start up league and its no surprise after a year bedding in they ended up the big team! Looking at backing, stadia, coaches they got on board etc... and historical fans from the SL years....

 

Crusadres were a competely new organisation and had nothing whatsoever to do with the defunct SL Crusaders.



#179 keighley

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 08:43 PM

1) They are free to do as they wish. I know a local soccer club who had ambition but when the next step included ground standards, then that was as far as they could get, but they didn't disband. I know a top Sheffield amateur soccer club who have a top ground, and they have toyed with going semi pro for some years but the problem is if they do every penny they earn will leave the club in players pockets.

 

It's a really strange phenomenon that a few on here keep projecting a future in which small clubs rise to the top on fresh air. I can only think that it's fans of clubs who are passionate about their club to be in Superleague who try to argue this way.......... 

 

2) But the problem with the fantasy of Keighley, Dewsbury, Featherstone, Leigh, Sheffield, Halifax and Hemel replacing Bradford, Wakefield, Leeds, Wigan, Saints, Hull and Broncos in SL is it would obviously be damaging to the game, but stuff the game, their fantasies come first.

 

Since 1996 and the advent of SL the worst posts I see on here are posts that say "If my club merged I would walk away from the game" or "If there was a closed shop SL I would walk away from the game".

 

You know, who cares if some people only have a narrow interest in the game  and want to walk away if the game doesn't cut it's throat to suit them

 

The most narrow view of the game s by those who think only 8 to 10 clubs matter and the rest can just wither and die, including some which are currently members of SL..................



#180 JohnM

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 08:53 PM

The most narrow view of the game s by those who think only 8 to 10 clubs matter and the rest can just wither and die, including some which are currently members of SL..................


Who thinks that?




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