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NZ Sevens dilemma - Olympics


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#1 Scubby

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 09:21 AM

This seems absolutely barmy. The NZRU are contacting top players about their interest in the Olympic 7s in Rio but asking them to consider opting out of Super Rugby and Internationals for 2016 to prepare.

 

This is ridiculous. I'm sorry, but I've seen the 7s circuit and top international players would take 2-3 weeks max to be ready to play in an Olympics. Some could actually turn up on the day and make an impact in some of the IRB 7s I've seen. Why are they trying to make out it is something it isn't? It is not a step up for world class athletes - it is a dilution.

 

Average NZ players playing 7s with 10 months prep versus World Class NZ 15s players (e.g. Carter, SBW etc.) playing 7s with 2-3 weeks prep is an absolute no-brainer.

 

If Israel Folau had turned up on the first day of the Commonwealth games 7s - he would still have been the star of the Aussie team.

 

http://www.stuff.co....evens-conundrum


Edited by Scubby, 30 July 2014 - 10:33 AM.


#2 Railway End

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 09:14 PM

It could take these players a fair while to learn the "nuances" of the 7's game though.

Things like running, passing and tackling come to mind ;-)

"Rugby League is rugby in the simplest form in the sense that it's about great defence, great tackling technique, good handling, good passing, catching and great kicking."

 

 Stuart Lancaster - England Rugby Union Head Coach - October 2013


#3 Gosman

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 02:14 AM

It could take these players a fair while to learn the "nuances" of the 7's game though.

Things like running, passing and tackling come to mind ;-)

 

 

Are you suggesting the All Black 15's players don't know how to run, pass or tackle?



#4 Gosman

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 02:22 AM

This is ridiculous. I'm sorry, but I've seen the 7s circuit and top international players would take 2-3 weeks max to be ready to play in an Olympics. Some could actually turn up on the day and make an impact in some of the IRB 7s I've seen. Why are they trying to make out it is something it isn't? It is not a step up for world class athletes - it is a dilution.

 

The training regime of the All Black 7's squad under Gordon Tietjens is notorious for being especially tough. I doubt many of the current 15's players could handle the pace initially. The game also has very different structure and skill set from 15's. Some might adapt as fast as you imply but some would struggle.



#5 Copa

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 07:59 AM

If I was a super rugby coach I'd be very reluctant to let my athletes go play another contact sport.

#6 Scubby

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 01:34 PM

The training regime of the All Black 7's squad under Gordon Tietjens is notorious for being especially tough. I doubt many of the current 15's players could handle the pace initially. The game also has very different structure and skill set from 15's. Some might adapt as fast as you imply but some would struggle.

 

Two weeks of 7s training and they would be fine. This is a problem that doesn't need to be solved. In the end it is about passing, running and catching.



#7 Gosman

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 06:16 PM


New Zealand and Australian Rugby Union players are mainly on central contracts. Therefore Super 15 coaches have little say in that decision. It is why established All Blacks can take a sabbatical or be rested by the NZRFU.

 

#8 Futtocks

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 06:29 PM

Two weeks of 7s training and they would be fine. This is a problem that doesn't need to be solved. In the end it is about passing, running and catching.

A bit of specialist training, plus at least one actual competitive Sevens tournament would be best. Got to be tested in competition, not just on the training field, I think.


A mind is like a parachute. It doesn’t work if it isn’t open. Frank Zappa (1940 - 1993)


#9 Alfies Thumb

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 11:11 PM

A bit of specialist training, plus at least one actual competitive Sevens tournament would be best. Got to be tested in competition, not just on the training field, I think.

 

Yeah, so true. Not sure if they're spreading the games out in Rio but playing 6 or so games over 2 days is pretty taxing.



#10 Futtocks

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 11:21 PM

I think they may be thinking too much about getting their big names involved in the Olympics, where the majority of worldwide viewers wouldn't know who the hell they were, and would just be impressed by a winning team - in other words, the existing Sevens specialists.


A mind is like a parachute. It doesn’t work if it isn’t open. Frank Zappa (1940 - 1993)


#11 Scubby

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 08:29 PM

A bit of specialist training, plus at least one actual competitive Sevens tournament would be best. Got to be tested in competition, not just on the training field, I think.

 

Which could all be done in two weeks



#12 Tiny Tim

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 08:54 PM

Some could actually turn up on the day and make an impact in some of the IRB 7s I've seen. Why are they trying to make out it is something it isn't? It is not a step up for world class athletes - it is a dilution.

 

 

So they could also play RL with a couple of weeks lead time too, could they? Essentially league is union only without lineouts, rucks, mauls and proper scrums and a less players on the pitch - it is a dilution right?


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#13 Middleton Bull

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 09:53 PM

So they could also play RL with a couple of weeks lead time too, could they? Essentially league is union only without lineouts, rucks, mauls and proper scrums and a less players on the pitch - it is a dilution right?

I see it more as a concentration



#14 Tiny Tim

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 10:03 PM

I see it more as a concentration

 

So 7s would be the next step in the concentration process.


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#15 Middleton Bull

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 10:13 PM

So 7s would be the next step in the concentration process.

No, the next step would obviously be 9's



#16 Tiny Tim

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 11:24 AM

No, the next step would obviously be 9's

 

Followed by 7s as the current pinnacle of rugby evolution.

 

So continuing with that league mindset then 1 a side games would be the ultimate version of rugby (assuming that 0 player per side is nonsensical).


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#17 Middleton Bull

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 12:20 PM

Followed by 7s as the current pinnacle of rugby evolution.

 

So continuing with that league mindset then 1 a side games would be the ultimate version of rugby (assuming that 0 player per side is nonsensical).

No - you are looking at it all wrong.  If you take a normal distribution curve with number of players on the x axis and quality on the y-axis, you will see that 13 players per team is the highest quality.  Moving either way to sevens or 15's reduces the quality.  It's another well known fact.  I think Einstein was the first to spot the correlation between the number 13 and the highest quality.



#18 Futtocks

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 02:29 PM

No - you are looking at it all wrong.  If you take a normal distribution curve with number of players on the x axis and quality on the y-axis, you will see that 13 players per team is the highest quality.  Moving either way to sevens or 15's reduces the quality.  It's another well known fact.  I think Einstein was the first to spot the correlation between the number 13 and the highest quality.

Nope, much earlier. Jesus had 12 team-mates, not 14. ;) 


A mind is like a parachute. It doesn’t work if it isn’t open. Frank Zappa (1940 - 1993)


#19 Tiny Tim

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 02:41 PM

Nope, much earlier. Jesus had 12 team-mates, not 14. ;)

 

Religion and politics not allowed on the cross code forum thank you very much. Save your mythical adventures for the AOB board please.


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#20 Shadow

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 03:20 PM

Nope, much earlier. Jesus had 12 team-mates, not 14. ;)

So are you saying Judas Iscariot would have played Rugby League?
God Rides a Harley but the Devil rides a Ducati!




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