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Foreign Office minister quits over 'intolerable' expenses rules


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#61 Bedford Roughyed

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 08:29 PM

Lots of areas of society, private school kids dominate.  (media, TV, Politics, many sports).

 

My own bug bear is in the world of 'adventurers'.  It's dominated by ex-public school people.

 

Of the Radio Times list of the 'Top TV Adventurers' , 6 were public school, 1 comprehensive, 2 unknown and 1 Aussie.

 

It's a niche field I admit!  They are not bad people and certainly work hard, but where are the 'normal' kids?


With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

#62 Dave T

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 08:37 PM

Lots of areas of society, private school kids dominate. (media, TV, Politics, many sports).

My own bug bear is in the world of 'adventurers'. It's dominated by ex-public school people.

Of the Radio Times list of the 'Top TV Adventurers' , 6 were public school, 1 comprehensive, 2 unknown and 1 Aussie.

It's a niche field I admit! They are not bad people and certainly work hard, but where are the 'normal' kids?

playing rugby league

#63 Bedford Roughyed

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 11:11 PM

playing rugby league

 

Football and Rugby League are probably 2 of the exceptions to the rule.  Most 'Olympic' sports are now dominated by private school kids (they play more organised sport is the harsh reality).


With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

#64 gingerjon

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 06:21 AM

Football and Rugby League are probably 2 of the exceptions to the rule.  Most 'Olympic' sports are now dominated by private school kids (they play more organised sport is the harsh reality).

 

Athletics is probably more mixed than you think but in terms of Olympic sports + equipment then, yup, certainly the UK side of things is public school dominated.  One of the legacies of London 2012 was giving a boating lake to Eton after all.

 

Soccer has quite a lot of public school folk in it and always has had.


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#65 Bob8

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 07:13 AM

Being an MP isn't just another job, though. MPs are there to serve, as representatives of the public, most of whom will earn nowhere near the salary of an MP.

 

If the generous salary and expenses aren't enough for any of them, in my view they aren't in it for the right reasons to start with and begone with 'em.

 

No matter what party they represent, MPs ought to have at least one foot firmly planted in the reality of the lives of those they seek to serve, and be prepared to practice what they preach too. So if austerity, belt-tightening and wage restraint is to be the mantra for the masses, it must also be the mantra for them.

 

Life is tough, and living and working in London in particular is an expensive business for everyone. MPs should not see themselves as a protected species, though most of them clearly do.

 

Maybe they could consider tackling some of the reasons living and working in London is so unaffordable, rather than expecting to be protected from that reality by ever higher salaries and expenses allowances for themselves.

 

That might begin to earn them a degree of respect, instead of the general contempt they are viewed in these days.

What I write about is not reasonable, but will be seen as reasonable.

 

Certainly, one thing I saw in Oxford was the contrast between expectations.  One set would consider a reasonable salary to be one that allowed them to buy a house, car, have foreign holidays and send their kids to public schools.  While they could see that most people would never to able to have that lifestyle, this was put down to them being poor people and not counting.

 

I remember a very well meaning Telegraph columnist upsetting a large number of people once.  She was being genuine.  It turned out that Gordon Brown was paying his cleaner about £23,000 p/a and this was seen as a high figure and suggestive of something dodgy.  She wrote that despite being a Conservative, that salary seemed the bare minimum to live in London.  What she did not realise is that most of her readers were not paid anything like that.  Essentially. she was guilty of "Let them eat cake".  I sympathised, but there is something of a Two Nations situation.


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#66 Phil

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 09:24 AM

Being an MP isn't just another job, though. MPs are there to serve, as representatives of the public, most of whom will earn nowhere near the salary of an MP.

 

If the generous salary and expenses aren't enough for any of them, in my view they aren't in it for the right reasons to start with and begone with 'em.

 

No matter what party they represent, MPs ought to have at least one foot firmly planted in the reality of the lives of those they seek to serve, and be prepared to practice what they preach too. So if austerity, belt-tightening and wage restraint is to be the mantra for the masses, it must also be the mantra for them.

 

Life is tough, and living and working in London in particular is an expensive business for everyone. MPs should not see themselves as a protected species, though most of them clearly do.

 

Maybe they could consider tackling some of the reasons living and working in London is so unaffordable, rather than expecting to be protected from that reality by ever higher salaries and expenses allowances for themselves.

 

That might begin to earn them a degree of respect, instead of the general contempt they are viewed in these days.

 

 

Nothing can be done about that, it's determined by "the market" which is an occult force working outside of the control of mere mortals. Ask Northern Sol, he's a hi poobah or adept, or something.


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#67 WearyRhino

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 09:48 AM

 Ask Northern Sol, he's a hi poobah or adept, or something.

 

He's got A levels in it and everything. Book learning stuff!!!!


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#68 WearyRhino

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 09:53 AM

The figure, when last tested, was 87% of writers in the media went to public school.

 

The Guardian 'list' hasn't been updated for a while but it's quite a depressing one - and of course it's replicated at all the other papers as well.

 

Indeed, and as internship becomes a 'normal' part of the career path in both the media and third sector the situation will inevitably get worse. The use of internships is the most regressive employment policy adopted in the last 50 years and will reverse any efforts to address social inequalities in employment.


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#69 getdownmonkeyman

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 10:46 AM

What I write about is not reasonable, but will be seen as reasonable.

 

Certainly, one thing I saw in Oxford was the contrast between expectations.  One set would consider a reasonable salary to be one that allowed them to buy a house, car, have foreign holidays and send their kids to public schools.  While they could see that most people would never to able to have that lifestyle, this was put down to them being poor people and not counting.

 

I remember a very well meaning Telegraph columnist upsetting a large number of people once.  She was being genuine.  It turned out that Gordon Brown was paying his cleaner about £23,000 p/a and this was seen as a high figure and suggestive of something dodgy.  She wrote that despite being a Conservative, that salary seemed the bare minimum to live in London.  What she did not realise is that most of her readers were not paid anything like that.  Essentially. she was guilty of "Let them eat cake".  I sympathised, but there is something of a Two Nations situation.

 

Two Nations being London and everywhere else. It always raises a smile how National economic decisions are made in Westminster, with London having its own bubble/micro economy. I will never forget a conversation I had with our London office in 2008, basically, they had a 'tough three months' as in the North headed further into recession. So detached, you coudn't  make it up.



#70 Bob8

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 11:05 AM

Two Nations being London and everywhere else. It always raises a smile how National economic decisions are made in Westminster, with London having its own bubble/micro economy. I will never forget a conversation I had with our London office in 2008, basically, they had a 'tough three months' as in the North headed further into recession. So detached, you coudn't  make it up.

There is something in that, but there are plenty of people struggling hard in London and plenty who think that a two week cruise and school fees are teh basic minimum for a proper job.


"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

”I am all for expansion but not to start and string the teams all over the place” – stewpot01 – 11 July 2014

"2013 is on course to be one of the most disastrous in its history." - Creditwhereitsdews - 2nd January 2013


#71 nadera78

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 01:41 PM

There is something in that, but there are plenty of people struggling hard in London and plenty who think that a two week cruise and school fees are teh basic minimum for a proper job.


My Mrs went in-house at the start of the year but her old firm was always interesting at pay review time. The women were essentially treated as if they were there earning some pocket money before having babies. The men, on the other hand, we're obviously the bread winners and so needed to be paid better. One male associate was very open that he received a higher pay rise than the women because he told the partners he needed it as his kids were about to start (private) school.

Like I said earlier, I know people who'd be happy to earn the allowances Simmonds is entitled to never mind the actual salary that goes with it,
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#72 getdownmonkeyman

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 05:44 PM

There is something in that, but there are plenty of people struggling hard in London and plenty who think that a two week cruise and school fees are teh basic minimum for a proper job.

 

Quite. I have never been able to understand how retail sector employees afford to exist in London. 



#73 Marauder

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 05:15 PM

Fair comment, I agree that it is hardly a tough life, but the couple's combined salaries of £114k is not exactly out of this world, I think the second property living expenses is a nothing cost as it is a requirement that he works away from home, so I am ok with it (although not his issue about living just outside London where he could get a home in his price range).

How can you class it as working away from home when his wife and three kids are with him.


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