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#21 Zuehb Zaki

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 09:28 AM

I did exactly the same Zuehb and came up with some quotes also

 

"He who hath no brain posteth shiteth on here" and my favourite one "shut the feck up yer plank"

Another positive post from yourself. It is normal to give a source when quoting the words of others. At least this offering contain no homophbic comments, unlike your other recent posts. Surprised you dont get banned but I suppose you are above the rules the rest of us have to follow. In your case it certainly isn't what you know so must be who you know.



گر اور ہمیشہ کے لئے ہو جائے گا سے زیادہ طاقتور

#22 Gary Coyle

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 09:34 AM

Another positive post from yourself. It is normal to give a source when quoting the words of others. At least this offering contain no homophbic comments, unlike your other recent posts. Surprised you dont get banned but I suppose you are above the rules the rest of us have to follow. In your case it certainly isn't what you know so must be who you know.

Ah, so you assumed the quotes were aimed at you, good job there.

 

When you talk about the rules, is that also the same rules regarding NOT having multiple identities, run along now.



#23 Blind side johnny

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 09:49 AM


 

 

If we do go down, so what, we miss out on 3 decent away followings that we have had this year, How many gates have we had this season over a 1000? I can only think of Halifax and Featherstone at home, we only had 976 against Leigh last week so in reality how much will we really lose financially? Gates will be lower but so will the wage bill, the majority of people going to home games are home fans anyway, so I don't think this will be anywhere near as disastrous as some are predicting.   

 

Not wishing to interfere in your domestic grief but, unfortunately, the Sky money available to PDC1 clubs next season is substantially less than in the Championship, so you will lose a fair chunk, yes.


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#24 Zuehb Zaki

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 09:52 AM

Ah, so you assumed the quotes were aimed at you, good job there.

 

When you talk about the rules, is that also the same rules regarding NOT having multiple identities, run along now.

Many years ago I was advised by my Bank Manager"Never assume anything" and have followed this advice since. However I am very observant and you appear to be a very troubled individual. I hope for once in my life I am wrong and that you have a long and healthy life.



گر اور ہمیشہ کے لئے ہو جائے گا سے زیادہ طاقتور

#25 Gary Coyle

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 10:23 AM

Many years ago I was advised by my Bank Manager"Never assume anything" and have followed this advice since. However I am very observant and you appear to be a very troubled individual. I hope for once in my life I am wrong and that you have a long and healthy life.

Troubled yes, stupid no.

 

Dont forget to logout.



#26 DOGFATHER

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 10:37 AM

With respect, I don't really feel that - results aside, the club has progressed at all off-field since the last new stand was completed around 2003. Fair enough, we won a trophy in 2010 and reached the Grand Final in 2013. I'd argue that Karl Harrison fell into our lap due to family connections. I'd then argue that, while bringing John Kear to the club was great business which should be commended, it was his acumen and ability alone that was responsible for our great season last year.
What hasn't changed since KN took over the club is our pitiful lack of sponsorship, a complete and utter lack of promotion and communication with the fans, and our eternally decreasing crowd figures which will now plummet even further. My belief is that our success on the pitch - down to shrewd and astute coaching by quality personnel, has masked a total lack of progress off it.
I don't doubt KN's love of the club for one minute. I just feel that we've stagnated horribly behind the scenes in all aspects - which has culminated in what has been a horror season. Despite our recent successes, we're now left in a position where several clubs who have had nothing like the same on-field consistency over the last decade are now in a much better all-round position than ourselves - including Dewsbury, who will probably be in a higher division next season and have (so I believe) five directors on their board who are reportedly able to invest money whenever necessary. They have also attracted sponsorship which dwarfs our one. I have to ask why they have been able to achieve this whereas we have failed to do so. Like you, I don't personally know KN - and as I've already said I don't for one minute doubt his love for our club, but I've got to question how we have ended up in this situation despite having so many apparent advantages over some of the clubs who will be taking their place in the lucrative second tier next season?

Whilst I agree with most of the very good points you make, I think the answer to the question of how we ended up in this situation is really very simple, and I'm sure you know the answer to the rhetorical question you are posing as well as most reading these boards. We have just one person running the club, who is expected to do everything, from signing players on, negotiating contracts, to marketing the club, to keeping things running behind the scenes on a day to day basis.

 

We invested what money we had on the playing side of the club and have not really invested in the back room admin staff that are needed to communicate with fans, increase sponsorship etc. It has proved to be a mistake this season, but given we used the same format last season and we were runnner's up in the grand final, it could be argued, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. 

 

You mention the eternally dwindling support, but is that not the same for the whole division barring maybe Leigh this season and possibly Featherstone? Halifax's gates have dropped significantly too, I'd bet not many other clubs have seen an increase in support over the last 10 years. I feel sure part of the reason for the lack of support in the lower divisions is due to the closed shop which is SL. I for one am not convinced that despite the positive messages being transmitted from Red Hall that the situation has really changed either.

 

Featherstone and Leigh have a chance of gaining promotion to SL but they will have to put a squad together better than Bradford Bulls and London Broncos who will be getting double the money they get, but tougher than that, they will also have to be better than one of Hull KRSalfordWakefield and Hull FC in order to reach the top division, who are getting nearly 4 times the amount of money they will get. 

 

One thing for sure is, this jeopardy situation the RFL have conjured up to increase excitement hasn't really captured the public's imagination looking at the gates around the division.

 

BSJ makes a very good point that we will not get anywhere near the money if we are relegated, fair point, but what is the point of getting £200k when some of the teams you are competing against are getting 4 or 5 times as much? THe RFL could give all teams £1M a season but if they are competeing against teams getting £4 or £5M, does it really make any difference? It means the same thing the big clubs will have the ability to sign who they want and the rest of the division will be fighting over the scraps.

 

At least the CH1 teams will be competing against teams on an equal footing, so it should make for a better and more exciting season, a bit like the CH has been in recent years with any luck and I don't think it will be easy to predict.

 

In the CH/SL2 next yea,r the top 6 at the end of the season will be Bradford, London, Leigh, Featherstone, Halifax, Sheffield and Doncaster, quite possibly in that order, does anyone fancy a flutter against it?


Edited by DOGFATHER, 16 August 2014 - 10:49 AM.


#27 Griff

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 11:01 AM

 

In the CH/SL2 next yea,r the top 6 at the end of the season will be Bradford, London, Leigh, Featherstone, Halifax, Sheffield and Doncaster, quite possibly in that order, does anyone fancy a flutter against it?

 

I will !! I can't see all seven getting into the top six. ;)


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#28 DOGFATHER

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 11:05 AM

I will !! I can't see all seven getting into the top six. ;)

hehehe sorry meant Sheffield or Doncaster 



#29 graham fisher

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 12:20 PM

hehehe sorry meant Sheffield or Doncaster

you've forgotten the rams in there?

#30 toffee

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 12:35 PM

Have you insider knowlage or just speculating . Surly if any truth in the matter we might hear something on the web site as any good news now would help after the season we have had .

#31 DOGFATHER

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 01:09 PM

you've forgotten the rams in there?

hehe no I haven't,  ;) I think you will be fighting with the rest in a relegation dogfight like we have all but lost this year.



#32 DOGFATHER

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 02:13 PM

Not wishing to interfere in your domestic grief but, unfortunately, the Sky money available to PDC1 clubs next season is substantially less than in the Championship, so you will lose a fair chunk, yes.

I may be wrong, but as I understand it we will get £75k in CH1 next year so in reality we are losing £15k over what we got this year. But instead of trying to compete with Leigh and Featherstone and there seemingly inexhaustible playing budgets, we will be competing with Rochdale, Oldham, NW Crusaders, Hunslet, Barrow etc. who will be getting exactly the same money as us. However we may attract more home support because we are winning more frequently, who knows? WE have had gates of 4-500 this season, and we seem to take around 300-400 fans to most away fixtures, so I don't think we will be much worse off. 

 

If we stay up, we will get £150k, but we will have to compete for players signatures with teams getting £1M, so we are not likely to be very competitive and will inevitably lose more than we will win, therefore it is only a matter of time before we would get relegated from the division anyway, quite possibly next season even with the increase in funding. Would supporters be any less inclined to walk away next season even if we stay up, or are they more likely to walk away after an even worse season in terms of win/loss ratio than this one?

 

I suppose the big question is, would we be any better off by winning the last 3 games and avoiding relegation? Long term it looks inevitable we would be relegated from the division anyway, it is just a matter of time, unless clubs like us and Dewsbury for that matter, can somehow increase our revenue from other sources at a rate higher than the teams we are competing against. For example, to compete with Bradford next year, we would have to somehow generate £850k more off field revenue than them, just to off-set the balance in the central funding deficit? I just cannot see it happening unless they go bust again.



#33 Blind side johnny

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 05:01 PM

I may be wrong, but as I understand it we will get £75k in CH1 next year so in reality we are losing £15k over what we got this year. But instead of trying to compete with Leigh and Featherstone and there seemingly inexhaustible playing budgets, we will be competing with Rochdale, Oldham, NW Crusaders, Hunslet, Barrow etc. who will be getting exactly the same money as us. However we may attract more home support because we are winning more frequently, who knows? WE have had gates of 4-500 this season, and we seem to take around 300-400 fans to most away fixtures, so I don't think we will be much worse off. 

 

If we stay up, we will get £150k, but we will have to compete for players signatures with teams getting £1M, so we are not likely to be very competitive and will inevitably lose more than we will win, therefore it is only a matter of time before we would get relegated from the division anyway, quite possibly next season even with the increase in funding. Would supporters be any less inclined to walk away next season even if we stay up, or are they more likely to walk away after an even worse season in terms of win/loss ratio than this one?

 

I suppose the big question is, would we be any better off by winning the last 3 games and avoiding relegation? Long term it looks inevitable we would be relegated from the division anyway, it is just a matter of time, unless clubs like us and Dewsbury for that matter, can somehow increase our revenue from other sources at a rate higher than the teams we are competing against. For example, to compete with Bradford next year, we would have to somehow generate £850k more off field revenue than them, just to off-set the balance in the central funding deficit? I just cannot see it happening unless they go bust again.

 

 

Good analysis. You rightly expose the danger of constantly chasing next year's money which will then inevitably be consumed by hungry agents, a danger that will face many in the middle league next year.


Believe what you see, don't see what you believe.


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#34 coolie

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 05:26 PM

Its all my fault

cant understand how folk are ducking out the way of blame

i take full responsibility for sending batley down to championship 1

i would it to go into the history books of that fact

better than a OBE that ;)

#35 Bulldog Days

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 08:00 PM

It's getting ridiculous when extreme arguments & quotes, totally out of context, are used to defend what is clearly a series of mess ups over the past 10-12 months at the Club. As people have often quoted on this forum, there is one person who controls and has the say at the Mount, and it is therefore not ridiculous that a CEO would need the permission of that person, as indeed a Coach needs the funding and permission to buy players. Mess ups do happen in life & business, but it is the manner in which they are addressed and rectified that is important. The loyal supporters are and will continue to back the Club, but at the very least deserve some statement on the current situation

#36 DOGFATHER

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Posted 17 August 2014 - 07:39 AM

It's getting ridiculous when extreme arguments & quotes, totally out of context, are used to defend what is clearly a series of mess ups over the past 10-12 months at the Club. As people have often quoted on this forum, there is one person who controls and has the say at the Mount, and it is therefore not ridiculous that a CEO would need the permission of that person, as indeed a Coach needs the funding and permission to buy players. Mess ups do happen in life & business, but it is the manner in which they are addressed and rectified that is important. The loyal supporters are and will continue to back the Club, but at the very least deserve some statement on the current situation

Where has anyone tried to defend the mess ups over the last 12 months? I don't think anyone could defend it tbh, the club has made mistakes and hopefully will have learned from those mistakes and we will go back to the drawing board and come back with a better model in terms of running the club, which includes employing at least one other full time member of staff, who is a good communicator with the fans and the press and has the sales skills to increase sponsorship and revenue streams; maybe paid on commission basis so they will make more money for the club than they cost to employ. So that the other member of staff will know all the rules regarding DR next year.

 

I still fail to see what good an inquest or a statement will achieve. I don't think anyone is in any doubt what has gone wrong this season, if you are, how are you in any doubt? The mistakes have been plastered all over the place.

 

The coach has made mistakes, by not giving DR players more game time so they were eligible for the end of season run in. He wrote 2 lads off (Aspinall and Connor) after just one game each and Mason after a couple more. He sent another 2 lads (Brennan and Leary) out on loan for the season when we were short of numbers anyway and we had to play at Featherstone with just 2 props. He signed some players who are simply not good enough to mix it in this division, but could we afford to sign better quality when all clubs were fighting for survival and overspending on players to ensure they stayed up? 

 

We went in to the season with centres and wingers who were not good enough and not enough cover at halfback if we got injuries. We lost a centre and a winger due to the betting fiasco for longer than we thought and the club should have known they would get lengthy bans, just looking at others who had committed the same offences. We have also had Black and Leak out for the majority of the season through injury which is unfortunate and could not be foreseen.

 

We signed Griffin for the centres who was signed by Salford, we played Blackmore on DR for most of the early part of the season who was then signed by Featherstone. Both were good players and nothing the club could do about this.

 

We apparently had money available to sign players on, but failed to do so other than Rettie, a half back would have been a better option as it turned out but Black was fit until after the deadline had passed so would it have been prudent to sign another half back who might have been collecting splinters in the stands for the rest of the season if Black had not got injured at Sheffield?

 

We missed an obscure rule listed under the play-off section of the the rule book about DR players playing 3 times prior to 25th July and have been docked 3 points.

 

There, that is the inquest over, what good has it done???


Edited by DOGFATHER, 17 August 2014 - 07:47 AM.


#37 RPH

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Posted 17 August 2014 - 08:06 AM

Its all my fault

cant understand how folk are ducking out the way of blame

i take full responsibility for sending batley down to championship 1

i would it to go into the history books of that fact

better than a OBE that ;)

hate to urinate on you bonfire.....but if you win today.......or when you win today........

even if Whitehaven win.......we will not be relegated........

that wont happen mathematically till the week after......so you dont get your little place in the History books... :tease:

it would make it even more difficult to stay up........but i think most of us are resigned to the dooming fate.....

and we are just hoping an praying we can perform a miracle..... :angel:


Edited by RPH, 17 August 2014 - 08:09 AM.


#38 Bulldog Days

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Posted 17 August 2014 - 09:03 AM

A very good post & summary DF. I would just like to add another word to your long list -WHY?

#39 Bi11

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Posted 17 August 2014 - 10:19 AM

Who's accountable for the error which looks likely to cost us Championship status and all the prize money/improved gate receipts that would have come our way next season? Will we be told?

Why don't you ask KN?  He seems to be very approachable and no doubt after a chat you would see that whilst mistakes have been made things are not as black and white as some on this forum make out.  Now, how about we follow Bufords' earlier advice and get behind the team for the rest of the season.



#40 coolie

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Posted 17 August 2014 - 10:21 AM

hate to urinate on you bonfire.....but if you win today.......or when you win today........

even if Whitehaven win.......we will not be relegated........

that wont happen mathematically till the week after......so you dont get your little place in the History books... :tease:

it would make it even more difficult to stay up........but i think most of us are resigned to the dooming fate.....

and we are just hoping an praying we can perform a miracle..... :angel:

we win today your as good as down

 

 

and you know it ;)

 

good luck for this afternoon :)

I want the game to be won by the best team today..not a dodgy reffin decision

 

the team that wants it more will triumph today pure and simple

 

batley to win by 8 points....yeah batley to win

 

no way will win :)






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