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Superdude

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He is on facebook so nothing to lose.

 

Hello Dr Koukash.
I believe that you have in the past expressed interest in acquiring the ownership of Oldham Athletic Football club..As you may know it is now for sale.
I speak primarily as a supporter of Oldham Rugby League Football club but also have the interests of the football club at heart.
I believe that a person such a yourself could acquire both the football and the Rugby teams and get them under one roof at Boundary Park.As you may know there is a potential Wigan RLFC Wigan Athletic combination in Oldham.The football team have been in the premier league and the Rugby team remain in the top 8 teams despite their lowly status at this time.Returning them both to a higher status would be special.

Andy Kenny

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It is what it is.

When the Whitebank was took over it was makeshift,ramshackle but ours.I would go and the word was improvements ,planning permissions and so on.It had to happen quickly.It did not.I find the place depressing end of.Like Mr Bandage I go to away games and have no desire whatsoever set foot in that place.Those that continue to go to the Whitebank well its up to them.

 

I think the main problem is that it isn't ours.  We may of been given a lemon. (did 'we' fully understand the ownership issues?)

 

You could do up the half/third that is ours but then you wonder if there is any point wasting money on half a ground when money is tight.

With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

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I think the main problem is that it isn't ours.  We may of been given a lemon. (did 'we' fully understand the ownership issues?)

 

You could do up the half/third that is ours but then you wonder if there is any point wasting money on half a ground when money is tight.

When we went in there it was any port in a storm.Years of nomadic living,being booted out of latics were taking its toll.If Hamilton did not know the full implications it would be of no surprise nor is the fact that he does not communicate with supporters what the situation is.

Even if the whole shooting was owned outright by a Oldham supporters trust spending anything on that place would a total waste.

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Just read in the Chron that Simon Corney wants to sell the Latics ! ......... could that tempt Koukash to come back in ? or has that ship sailed ?

Not saying Koukash is perfect but we're desperate for a change and if he read's the history books he'd see he would be getting the proverbial 'sleeping giant' ;)

If I remember correctly, the main reason for his loss of interest was due to the fact he wanted to sell boundary park and rebuild elsewhere. But because the new stand was being built corney was dead against it.
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where would "elsewhere" be though??

from what i understand koukash wanted to build a new stadium with all the food retail,cinema,mega bowl retail park next to it....theres litterally knowhere big enough in oldham for that sort of development....

infact boundary park & elk mill is the closest we'll ever get to that kind of development

OLDHAM RLFC

the 8TH most successful team in british RL

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where would "elsewhere" be though??

from what i understand koukash wanted to build a new stadium with all the food retail,cinema,mega bowl retail park next to it....theres litterally knowhere big enough in oldham for that sort of development....

infact boundary park & elk mill is the closest we'll ever get to that kind of development

which is where Sports Park 2000 was to be. But it got scuppered.
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There are lots of places in Oldham big enough for that kind of development. Look beyond what is currently there, particularly if what is there is derelict, or underused or already council owned.

 

Even without demolition there are several places that could fit a development of that kind. It's just, would the council and developers want to put that kind of development in those places. The answer to that is question is no....for several very good reasons.

 

They may want higher yield employment industries or affordable housing on this land, Both of which you could argue Oldham needs more than a bowling alley and stadium for 500 fans.

 

It's also too late for that kind of development now, and has been for a while. With Ashton Moss/Snipe down the road and the Sandbrook Park the other way. Plus a new multiplex cinema and family restaurant complex at the old town hall.....and Elk Mill.....and the City Centre now accessible by tram...there just isn't the need or demand for another park of that type. It would be a white elephant in the medium to long term. Thats why it's going to be difficult getting a new stadium for Oldham Rugby..

 

Difficult but not impossible. Have to build the fan base to over 2,000 first. Then sell multi-purpose model, like Sheffield. The question is our club's current owner/management capable of increasing engagement with regional and national developers, funding bodies, local authorities, partner bodies etc? And most importantly, is the current regime capable of attracting the fan base and therefore a constant revenue stream to make a development viable?

 

As an aside - Sheffield often lead the way. Great on integrated transport in the 70s and 80s. Meadowhall - long before other northern super-malls - keeping the city centre with a different identity and public/cultural use spaces. Sports stadia like Don Valley, Ponds forge etc well ahead of the game. So far ahead of the game, that they are now replacing them with more sustainable use models. They are on their second generation of modern regeneration before we hit our first. A leader in park and ride and bidding for national funds too. Yet, they keep all their heritage buildings safe and expand parks and green spaces. It's no accident that they have more students who stay there after university than any other city. Nor is it an accident that more 2012 Olympic medallists were born there or trained there, than any other city.

 

Their 'Civic Pride' is off the charts. Their sports clubs still get massive turnout though they're not playing in the top divisions.

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Oldham MBC unfortunately have another Hamilton running them.So anything visionary and logical is out the window.

Go to Wigan, Leigh, Horwich, Doncaster, York and see the way the stadia mesh with the shopping and other things

This is not the Oldham approach.

The Oldham approach is to have one place here, one place there,Nothing compliments the other. Mcmahons latest is to put M+S on the newly built park and ride at Mumps,.build more shops that cant be filled on top of More shops at this cinema which also will not be filled..You have empty units in the town square which cant be filled.More Galleries and a sports centre are also on the cards.Total Lunacy.

 

As I and one or two others said The way to have done it was to get a joint footbal and rugby  Stadium onto the land where Matalan shuffles about.(You could fit a fairly decent one in there).Get rid of those empty units and get Matalan up to town square.I would have kept the rail/trams and had park and ride setup doubling as a stadium car park.Any  big game parking could be at Alexandra park.There could have been a stadium tram stop approx where central station was .Making full use of the old rail land you could have had  a sports centre and shops and got that which other towns seem to have.

I would have took the tram under a tunnel up Clegg st and down Yorkshire St and kept the option for sending the rail and or train back up to Delph or at least to Lees for starters. This with a view to  getting Oldham back on the main line,reducing the traffic down Lees Road of a morning and getting Saddleworth people into Oldham.

 

Mcmahons latest wheeze will kill all this off.Seeing his plans for flats where the tram or train should be going to Saddleworth just makes me ill. All his plans will finish the job of killing the town.It saddens me but I don't have to live in Oldham so its those who remain I feel most sorry for.

 

It seems he likes his galleries,oh yes money gets found for them all right, but the sporting side of the town gets kicked into touch.

Anyway you can dream.

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Our position is very unfortunate. 

We have a simpleton, megalomaniac, in charge of our club who will not give over until he gets the golden egg he thinks he deserves.

 

Our town has been badly run for numerous years now. The town echoes our rugby club.

 

Other RL clubs and towns in our area  have been (more) forward thinking over the last 20 years. We are the worst pro club is existence and the crappyest town in Lancashire. The best thing the lunatics running our town have done for us is given us the tram to get out as quickly as possible and allow us to spend our money in Manchester and Bury etc.

 

Im afraid Big chris has also forced fans out of town without even giving us the means of a tram . I saw hundreds (in fact more and more each season) of  Oldham people at Superleague games (various clubs) last year. Habits are hard to break - Big Chris has some way to go to break the hand and foot ladies habits but he has gradually most peoples.

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Our position is very unfortunate.

We have a simpleton, megalomaniac, in charge of our club who will not give over until he gets the golden egg he thinks he deserves.

Our town has been badly run for numerous years now. The town echoes our rugby club.

Other RL clubs and towns in our area have been (more) forward thinking over the last 20 years. We are the worst pro club is existence and the crappyest town in Lancashire. The best thing the lunatics running our town have done for us is given us the tram to get out as quickly as possible and allow us to spend our money in Manchester and Bury etc.

Im afraid Big chris has also forced fans out of town without even giving us the means of a tram . I saw hundreds (in fact more and more each season) of Oldham people at Superleague games (various clubs) last year. Habits are hard to break - Big Chris has some way to go to break the hand and foot ladies habits but he has gradually most peoples.

you're all wind deluded. COME UP WITH A VIABLE PLAN and I will back you. Oh by the way, comparing Oldham Council with Oldham rugby is odd, remember the council has been elected,by you,, and you want to do the same with Oldham rugby????
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you're all wind deluded. COME UP WITH A VIABLE PLAN and I will back you. Oh by the way, comparing Oldham Council with Oldham rugby is odd, remember the council has been elected,by you,, and you want to do the same with Oldham rugby????

let me see.

In decline ,emptying ,shadow of former self,leader clutching at straws.

No. the dude is onto something there.

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let me see.

In decline ,emptying ,shadow of former self,leader clutching at straws.

No. the dude is onto something there.

No viable plan though .No way forward. No nothing, Tell you what, go and have a chat with those young lads who are pounding the streets n this weather getting ready for the new season. Go and tell Scott Naylor why you are not going to turn up and support his efforts.Tell him and the team that they are bunch of girls and they are wasting their time. No? Thought not.
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No viable plan though .No way forward. No nothing, Tell you what, go and have a chat with those young lads who are pounding the streets n this weather getting ready for the new season. Go and tell Scott Naylor why you are not going to turn up and support his efforts.Tell him and the team that they are bunch of girls and they are wasting their time. No? Thought not.

 As someone who applauded the lads and Scott Naylor off the field on more than one occasion last season why would I want to do tha?.Scott Naylor  and the lads are not the problem .I look at the contents of this thread a lot of constructive discussion took place.In other threads its been made clear that something will happen in a post Hamilton situation.Your approach seems to be happy to carry on with the decline and offer up being part of a diminishing crowd  at a poor ground with no marketing.That is your viable plan is it ?That is how we get people back in their droves? Thought not.

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As someone who applauded the lads and Scott Naylor off the field on more than one occasion last season why would I want to do tha?.Scott Naylor and the lads are not the problem .I look at the contents of this thread a lot of constructive discussion took place.In other threads its been made clear that something will happen in a post Hamilton situation.Your approach seems to be happy to carry on with the decline and offer up being part of a diminishing crowd at a poor ground with no marketing.That is your viable plan is it ?That is how we get people back in their droves? Thought not.

Not got a viable plan because like you and deluded I lack bucket loads of money. So I give the one thing I have, my support. The one thing I do not do is to actively discourage people from attending or belittle them because they do. If you don't want to go, don't go.
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I agree with a lot of AK and Dude's stuff on the Rugby but I believe there's some tosh spoken here about development and the role of the Council. To be fair Mcmahon has only been in since 2011. By then all the mistakes in development had already been made and the plans for Metrolink were set.

 

No town planner would recommend a stadium be built on prime town centre development land for two sports clubs with a joint average attendance of just over 4,000. It would be lunacy. A population of 230,000 would suggest  a number of Oldham households of around 100,000. Attendance of just over 4,000 would suggest a number of households actively supporting the sports clubs of (generously) around 3,000.

 

That's 3%. You gonna spend years of development time, millions of public funds to please 3% of Council Tax payers? LUNACY. Like it or not we may have missed the boat on stadium development with retail attached. But that boat was missed many years ago when Elk Mill was built on

 

Oldham missed opportunities 12-20 years ago, and although some of the current plans for Oldham may seem incoherent, they are the only options left in many cases. I am not Big Jim's biggest fan and he is gambling with public money, no doubt. It could come back to haunt him and cripple the town's finances for years to come. But a new leisure centre, new cinema & restaurant complex and theatre/galleries is no mean feat. More than anyone else has done Oldham in the last 40 years.

 

I'm sure the Council were in discussion with M&S about several potential sites. If that's the one M&S want, then they have to have it, they are a keystone store. Others will DEFINITELY come now they are there. That brings jobs.....and people from Saddleworth to Oldham. The restaurants at the new cinema will be used if they are pitched right for the demographic. Halifax's cinema and restaurant complex seems to work pretty well. A company like Odeon and the couple of family restaurant franchises that have already signed up, wouldn't have done so if they hadn't done the due diligence on potential profit yield.

 

The assumption that the Council has control over TfGM policy or Railtrack's budget and development is nonsense and a total red herring. The cost of building a tunnel under Clegg st would be astronomical. All the compulsory purchase of land and property along Union St and Clegg st, the logistics of securing the structural integrity of the significant buildings that would be affected by such massive earth works (Town Square, Parish Church, Old Town Hall, Lyceum). Not to mention the cost of of construction itself. It's tens of millions of pounds for one element, of one development. Totally impractical.

 

We have to concentrate on what is possible, what we can control and that's why the Sheffield stadium model is relevant. They have missed the boat on everything too, but still found a way to make it work through partnership with other user groups, education, performance space/music venue (which Oldham needs). That is a model that can work independent of retail development or a sugar daddy. If we want a new stadium either dual use or single use (rugby league and union) We have to ensure the fan base is built first and lock other bodies in partnership to utilise the facility too.

 

We know that CH isn't going to do that.

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I agree with a lot of AK and Dude's stuff on the Rugby but I believe there's some tosh spoken here about development and the role of the Council. To be fair Mcmahon has only been in since 2011. By then all the mistakes in development had already been made and the plans for Metrolink were set.

No town planner would recommend a stadium be built on prime town centre development land for two sports clubs with a joint average attendance of just over 4,000. It would be lunacy. A population of 230,000 would suggest a number of Oldham households of around 100,000. Attendance of just over 4,000 would suggest a number of households actively supporting the sports clubs of (generously) around 3,000.

That's 3%. You gonna spend years of development time, millions of public funds to please 3% of Council Tax payers? LUNACY. Like it or not we may have missed the boat on stadium development with retail attached. But that boat was missed many years ago when Elk Mill was built on

Oldham missed opportunities 12-20 years ago, and although some of the current plans for Oldham may seem incoherent, they are the only options left in many cases. I am not Big Jim's biggest fan and he is gambling with public money, no doubt. It could come back to haunt him and cripple the town's finances for years to come. But a new leisure centre, new cinema & restaurant complex and theatre/galleries is no mean feat. More than anyone else has done Oldham in the last 40 years.

I'm sure the Council were in discussion with M&S about several potential sites. If that's the one M&S want, then they have to have it, they are a keystone store. Others will DEFINITELY come now they are there. That brings jobs.....and people from Saddleworth to Oldham. The restaurants at the new cinema will be used if they are pitched right for the demographic. Halifax's cinema and restaurant complex seems to work pretty well. A company like Odeon and the couple of family restaurant franchises that have already signed up, wouldn't have done so if they hadn't done the due diligence on potential profit yield.

The assumption that the Council has control over TfGM policy or Railtrack's budget and development is nonsense and a total red herring. The cost of building a tunnel under Clegg st would be astronomical. All the compulsory purchase of land and property along Union St and Clegg st, the logistics of securing the structural integrity of the significant buildings that would be affected by such massive earth works (Town Square, Parish Church, Old Town Hall, Lyceum). Not to mention the cost of of construction itself. It's tens of millions of pounds for one element, of one development. Totally impractical.

We have to concentrate on what is possible, what we can control and that's why the Sheffield stadium model is relevant. They have missed the boat on everything too, but still found a way to make it work through partnership with other user groups, education, performance space/music venue (which Oldham needs). That is a model that can work independent of retail development or a sugar daddy. If we want a new stadium either dual use or single use (rugby league and union) We have to ensure the fan base is built first and lock other bodies in partnership to utilise the facility too.

We know that CH isn't going to do that.

I think Mcmahon is guilty of carrying on where the others left off.

We have had trams in the town centre before today.

The tunnel would have been under the bypass only,no demolition or remedials needed and the tram would have followed a route past Sainos stopping at union st ,town hall and yorkshire st.

Cost wise ,it would have been cheaper than zigzagging up westwood and that cutting near king st.Then a station was built to be demolished and track laid and ripped out.Also money was spent re routing bypass slip roads ,a protect that could have been absorbed into the tram thing.

If a town does not have input and these consultants just make it up as they go along then The result is for all to see.You could still have your M&S ,Mcmahons cinema would work better,and the woodstock st white elephant could have turned into a home for the towns football and rugby clubs,sports centre and whatever else you can imagine.Who knows the untapped Asian community might have shown interest.

Oldham has no prime land anymore because if it did it would have been snaffled a long time ago.What any town planner recommends in this town turns to **** anyway.

Bear in mind that this hairbrained scheme of mine was dreamt up when Corney and his mates were trying to get a new stadium built.That would have been the time

for the council to step in and get

one of those partnership thingies going.However they had other priorities like obtaining funding for galleries which noboby goes to.

Alas the ship has sailed and we are stuck with it.Anyone who visits Oldham now who has not seen it for a while is to a man is shocked by what they see. Will Mcmahons disparate projects improve things ? No.

Whatever and whoever made the decisions over the years Oldham is destined to become a backwater.

Given that the council is unable to think ,never mind outside the box or influence the gov and its consultants any plan will have to be independent of them.

One way or the other to get away from Whitebank we will be paying rent.No new stadium is going to happen anytime soon so BP is where I think ORLFC will end up.

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Sounds like your chief, CH, is a bit of a 'controller' who needs to be given the push, shove or whatever to make way for a supporters' based (trust?) club like us (and Hornets?) at Swinton these days.

Best thing to happen to us in recent times when our 'controller' JK got himself and our club in the brown stuff over 12 months ago. Get some capable fans running your club and you'll soon get back in the groove, or at least I hope you will.

 

Good luck Owdham!

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AK

 

The new stadium proposals and the new gallery/theatre proposals were about 2 years apart and totally independent of each other. One would be funded by various grants, one wouldn't.

 

I go to the gallery by the way. And the theatre occasionally, and I don't even live in Oldham anymore.

 

While I accept that some of the developments are disjointed, and I am massively aware of the shortcomings of the Council, I think your ire and dismissal of any effort to make improvements is a little churlish. I can only advise that if you wish to have influence at that level that you run for council. 

 

The bottom line on some of the metrolink issues is that the number of landowners and partners involved means it isn't as easy as you seem to think to put it where you want.

 

Going under the bypass is still a massive undertaking. All the services that would have to be rerouted plus the main arterial route through/past town would have to be closed for a prolonged amount of time.

Much bigger impact than building a cutting under a disused car park and barely used street behind King Street.

 

I'm confused. You really don't think the town centre will be better with a new cinema, new transport hub and new retail offer - regenerating the bottom end of the town?

 

A new dual use stadium would cost around £25 million quid - double that if you're building a sports centre and retail offer there too. No developer is going to put money into that when Oldham's current sports centre is underused and the sports clubs attract less than 4,500 supporters between them, because there is no evidence it would be in any way a sustainable resource. That's not the Council's fault. Unless you think the Council should spend £25 million of council taxpayers money on 3% of tax payers.

 

Other towns mentioned have much higher supporter figures and even some of them have become white elephants. Doncaster got a 15,000 seater stadium in the middle of nowhere, with an average crowd of less than 7000. Less than 9000 even in the championship. The big concerts they had there when it was first opened have dwindled too. Woodstock street has to have a more permanent use solution than that.....and direct sliproads from the bypass.

 

I would have suggested the old Sainsbury's site and connected it to the new (but slightly smaller) sports centre via a joint car park.and concourse.

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AK

 

The new stadium proposals and the new gallery/theatre proposals were about 2 years apart and totally independent of each other. One would be funded by various grants, one wouldn't.

 

I go to the gallery by the way. And the theatre occasionally, and I don't even live in Oldham anymore.

 

While I accept that some of the developments are disjointed, and I am massively aware of the shortcomings of the Council, I think your ire and dismissal of any effort to make improvements is a little churlish. I can only advise that if you wish to have influence at that level that you run for council. 

 

The bottom line on some of the metrolink issues is that the number of landowners and partners involved means it isn't as easy as you seem to think to put it where you want.

 

Going under the bypass is still a massive undertaking. All the services that would have to be rerouted plus the main arterial route through/past town would have to be closed for a prolonged amount of time.

Much bigger impact than building a cutting under a disused car park and barely used street behind King Street.

 

I'm confused. You really don't think the town centre will be better with a new cinema, new transport hub and new retail offer - regenerating the bottom end of the town?

 

A new dual use stadium would cost around £25 million quid - double that if you're building a sports centre and retail offer there too. No developer is going to put money into that when Oldham's current sports centre is underused and the sports clubs attract less than 4,500 supporters between them, because there is no evidence it would be in any way a sustainable resource. That's not the Council's fault. Unless you think the Council should spend £25 million of council taxpayers money on 3% of tax payers.

 

Other towns mentioned have much higher supporter figures and even some of them have become white elephants. Doncaster got a 15,000 seater stadium in the middle of nowhere, with an average crowd of less than 7000. Less than 9000 even in the championship. The big concerts they had there when it was first opened have dwindled too. Woodstock street has to have a more permanent use solution than that.....and direct sliproads from the bypass.

 

I would have suggested the old Sainsbury's site and connected it to the new (but slightly smaller) sports centre via a joint car park.and concourse.

Tubey, You have a very poor attitude to life. There is nothing that can be done its too late. If it wasn't for Chris we wouldn't have an Oldham Rugby. Lets just make the most of our  situation and be good loyal fans, pay out money and keep quiet. You deserve Whitebirk, to get wet, and drink warm beer, and be (almost) alone. 

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Do you actually read what I write elsewhere on this forum about Whitebank and CH. Please Don't try and present me as one of your so called lunatics. What you have written there is a massive misrepresentation of me, as most people on the forum can attest. So writing that tripe reveals you to be just as one dimensional as CH - 'If you don't agree with me 100% about every aspect of everything then you are an idiot'. This attitude smacks of the arrogant and inflexible egocentrism of a young child. Unfortunately, this means that the stuff that you are right about gets discounted too...because your approach is not credible. 

 

I have never said its too late, only that it is perhaps too late for a large retail based development with an associated stadium for many reasons articulated earlier in the thread. In fact, I have said that the Sheffield model could and should deliver a stadium, but we need a new owner and council backing to get it. That's why just slagging off the council is a bad idea particularly with a series of pie-in the sky alternatives to current developments that may not be viable, or affordable, or politically advisable in the wider context.

 

Like it or not, even in a post CH era, the Council would still have a massive hand in any stadium development. Do you think the Council is going to give backing to a small group of supporters who constantly slag them off? In the post CH era we need flexibility, engagement, clean slates, compromise and pragmatism.

 

Woodstock street is the wrong place for a stadium in my view. That would be better used as a large retail company's northern distribution centre (with direct access to the bypass). It would better utilise the size of the site and bring more jobs to the town. Land at Hollinwood close to M60 is also ripe for this kind of development.

 

I want a new stadium. I believe we can achieve that, in a post CH era. But, there are better and more 'sellable' opportunities for a small rugby stadium than Woodstock street, in my opinion.

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Where did this idea come from, it would be a big mistake to build or consider the building of a stadium anywhere near Woodstock Street, its a rougher area than Limeside, rather stay at Whitebank than move into a stadium there.

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Its all acedemic now.What I was on about needed joined up thinking 10years ago.The old sainsburys may have worked, fair enough.

Not right interested in the black arts of town planning or the strange ways of transport consultants.However the results are clear.They blew millions for zero gain.

Oldham is a town of takeaways and tatoo shops.Would not dream of shopping there or having a night out there.If you think Mcmahons niche shopping quarter and Cinema and M&S scheme will bring the town back then good look to you.I think the woodstock street site is best suited for empty units not taken up for 10 years and musical matalan stores that move from time to time.

I repeat BP is now the post CH option.

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We can speculate and speculate again about an Oldham Rugby Leauge Stadium - sadly it can never happen, unless CH moves on or he realises that he needs financial support from somewhere so losing his arrogant, head in the sand attitude to all those concerned about ORLFC.

 

If this ever happened couldn't the old Higginshaw Gaswork site fill the bill for a new stadium?

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