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Rugby League needs to help


TheStinger

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It is not huge and grants could be obtained. But it all shows progress.

 

Grants are out there (plus the RFL's facilities fund) but not for a 1/3 of a ground.  Until that is sorted its up to the club to fund it all, and we all know every penny is spent on getting a team out.

With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

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I'm sorry but there are thousands of viral campaigns done for no budget and lots of piggy back marketing and social media work can be done for nothing.

In the 21st century promotion does not mean 'buying media'.

You're saying unless you have a lot of money to put in you're not allowed to criticise.

None of us are happy about the state of the club. I wish CH could succeed. But here's what you have to face. It's sad but it is true. The club has no money and NOBODY will give the club any money while the sole director of the club has a track record of losing money, stakeholders and fans.

But at the same time NOBODY IS going to buy out the sole director because they would be paying a quarter of a million pounds for literally NOTHING.

Catch 22.

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My oh my the non gripers have tried their best to come with solutions which appear to be slagging people for suggestions, solutions , offering money , help and sponsorship.The only solution they come up with more of the same.

Its ok.just agree to disagree and we will meet at the point where some attempt has to be made to resurrect the club.Its going to happen unless someone PROVES ME WRONG.

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One of the things we have to take into account re attendance is .

 

How many fans have passed away in recent years or who can no longer attend matches even if they want to do.

 

How many young people who play rugby at amateur level support the club.

 

Attendances are dwindling in every league.

 

In my opinion the biggest mistake made by the RFL was to switch to summer rugby.

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not talking about chucking money at it, I'm talking about initial set up costs and then day to day running costs. Cash flow to pay rent, rates, water, electricity, insurance, planning applications, safety checks, equipment etc etc. Then paying the coaches, medics, playing staff, groundsmen . All that before a ball is kicked. Your naivety astounds me. So stop the waffle and get on with it.prove me wrong.

And the naivety of Hamilton in attempting to do all this on his own? Mr Foot it may not have registered but some people who write on here may actually run businesses and actually know what is involved.
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My oh my the non gripers have tried their best to come with solutions which appear to be slagging people for suggestions, solutions , offering money , help and sponsorship.The only solution they come up with more of the same.

Its ok.just agree to disagree and we will meet at the point where some attempt has to be made to resurrect the club.Its going to happen unless someone PROVES ME WRONG.

Nonsense. I'm certainly not slagging anyone off. My point is you seem good at talking the talk but until you actually do something then that's all it is, talk. We've got a tidy squad that's coming together nicely and that's what's important to me. If you don't want to come then don't. But don't tell me you can run the club, show me!
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And the naivety of Hamilton in attempting to do all this on his own? Mr Foot it may not have registered but some people who write on here may actually run businesses and actually know what is involved.

As do I. But I do agree CH is naive, or proud, or stubborn.. He should ask for help. But actively trying to run the club down is not the way. It may seem counter intuitive to you but I believe the opposite to be true.
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look at it like Oldham market.At one time it was ace.People used to come from miles around.Now they dont.Yet somehow other markets thrive.Are the people who used to go on the market actively running it down.? The only difference between the ex market goers and some on here is that they have discussed the whys and wherefores.

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Nonsense. I'm certainly not slagging anyone off. My point is you seem good at talking the talk but until you actually do something then that's all it is, talk. We've got a tidy squad that's coming together nicely and that's what's important to me. If you don't want to come then don't. But don't tell me you can run the club, show me!

I could no more run the club than Hamilton can .I have stated elsewhere I will put my money where my mouth is (not the current owners ), toward a supporter based setup.End of.
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Someone has already said, Three tiers of concrete, and some form of weather cover down Whitebank road so the spectators can see game.

 

When we initially got whitebank stadium I saw this as a DIY job, on the back of the enthusiastic volunteering and the cement sponsors.

 

Naive or what!

 

But realising the financial tightrope, (as we all do) it seemed to be the obvious solution with the Fantastic fans that Oldham have...dirty dozen or otherwise!

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not talking about chucking money at it, I'm talking about initial set up costs and then day to day running costs. Cash flow to pay rent, rates, water, electricity, insurance, planning applications, safety checks, equipment etc etc. Then paying the coaches, medics, playing staff, groundsmen . All that before a ball is kicked. Your naivety astounds me. So stop the waffle and get on with it.prove me wrong.

Waffle? Says the guy giving a huge list of costs from a completely different budget, and saying we need all of that BEFORE we try and do some Marketing.

 

I have you plenty of examples, you have tried to divert the topic away, well it won't wash.

Are you denying that there is no way cheap, effective marketing that can be done?

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Nonsense. I'm certainly not slagging anyone off. My point is you seem good at talking the talk but until you actually do something then that's all it is, talk. We've got a tidy squad that's coming together nicely and that's what's important to me. If you don't want to come then don't. But don't tell me you can run the club, show me!

Not slagging off? You remarked how astounded you were at my naivety for a start.

I make no claims I could run the club, I  certainly could not living as far away as I do.

But that does not mean I cannot offer suggestions (and I have suggested rather than just slag off)  and criticise what is patently obvious.

All I have could be done by the community with engagement. And therein lies the problem.

And the plans have already been done, we have seen them.

 

If we need to sign one less player, become slightly less competitive to pay the bills on time, to afford a planning submission that is what we must do.

Grants will obtain a lot of the funds.

 

Where is the fund for a new stadium, where is the work with Rugby Oldham. Where is the simple click and donate on the website, advert in the programme, appeal via the Chron, shaking off the buckets at every game, the totaliser board for a stadium fund.

Are you telling me that could not have happened for the past 5 years and NOT generated £5,000 for the planning application?

Where is the appeal for builders, tradesmen, painter and decorators, enthusiastic DIYers all wanting to help, providing some basic material  all donating time if not money, even for a few minutes time with the heroes of the field.

Engagement. Virtual and Real. All can be done effectively on a budget of £0.  at our level.

 

I've never met him, or spoken with anyone that has, but I suggest CH is a micro manager dealing with everything himself. I  believe he thinks he is the only one able to do everything right. And every organisation needs someone as organised as him to get things moving. His Accountancy background makes him ideal for various aspects.

But if he stood back and let others do some of the jobs he is less keen on or less able, and checked on them periodically then he would have less of a strain on him and those tasks could be concentrated on and done well.

The could be done by a retired person, a volunteer. But he would have to leave them to get on with it somewhat and held back from pointing out every little mistake  then it would still get done leaving him to concentrate what he is better at. 

He can't do everything himself, even if he feels he has done so far.

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Being astounded at your naivety singe, is not slagging you off. Slagging off is what Superdude does. I disagree totally with your opinion. Now I'm sorry if if I don't think you are the answer to the clubs problems, But you're not. I try to use a well constructed argument as to why you won't succeed by just talking. If you are committed then d o something. My opinion.

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What is astounding to me Hand and Foot, is your failure to accept that no matter how committed we are, we can't 'do something'.

The club is uninvestable. It has liabilities which are massively higher than its assets. It has an appalling business reputation, it has exhausted or alienated all major funding sources, shows no forward planning, demonstrates no desire to engage with stakeholders and has a customer base of less than 500 people.

What business would you start from that position? As a business it has no credibility and is non viable.

By 'do something', what you mean is either give money to a club with a record of poor financial management OR give significant time and skill for free - with no guarantee that any of your ideas will be taken up or that you will be granted any rights or authority.

I'm sorry, but by definition, no one who has attained the money and/or skills necessary to save the club, is dumb enough to do either of those things. Even CH himself has stopped doing those things.

Please understand that the gripers' primary motivation is to see a sustainable future for RL in Oldham. We have never criticised CH's ability to attract players nor have we questioned the talent and commitment of the coaches and players.

I believe a new supporter owned club is the way forward. A new business would not have the millstone of debt around and its neck, and with new funding streams explored could appoint a commercial manager to oversee comms, marketing, sponsorship and fundraising. The board, including the head coach, commercial manager and elected supporter reps, together with a budget scrutiny committee would be responsible for financial management of the club.

Under the current business model, supporters will never have a true voice and even if they did, ANYONE operating that club has to carry round a £250k black hole, a stadium not fit for purpose and a bad business reputation.

We have to move to a new business model for professional rugby in Oldham.

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What is astounding to me Hand and Foot, is your failure to accept that no matter how committed we are, we can't 'do something'.

The club is uninvestable. It has liabilities which are massively higher than its assets. It has an appalling business reputation, it has exhausted or alienated all major funding sources, shows no forward planning, demonstrates no desire to engage with stakeholders and has a customer base of less than 500 people.

What business would you start from that position? As a business it has no credibility and is non viable.

By 'do something', what you mean is either give money to a club with a record of poor financial management OR give significant time and skill for free - with no guarantee that any of your ideas will be taken up or that you will be granted any rights or authority.

I'm sorry, but by definition, no one who has attained the money and/or skills necessary to save the club, is dumb enough to do either of those things. Even CH himself has stopped doing those things.

Please understand that the gripers' primary motivation is to see a sustainable future for RL in Oldham. We have never criticised CH's ability to attract players nor have we questioned the talent and commitment of the coaches and players.

I believe a new supporter owned club is the way forward. A new business would not have the millstone of debt around and its neck, and with new funding streams explored could appoint a commercial manager to oversee comms, marketing, sponsorship and fundraising. The board, including the head coach, commercial manager and elected supporter reps, together with a budget scrutiny committee would be responsible for financial management of the club.

Under the current business model, supporters will never have a true voice and even if they did, ANYONE operating that club has to carry round a £250k black hole, a stadium not fit for purpose and a bad business reputation.

We have to move to a new business model for professional rugby in Oldham.

My point is not that you can't do something, but if you are hoping to do something then do it. Get together, get funds, organize, decide who is going to do what, who's going to coach, who's going to play full back, where your going to play. My argument is the current business, no matter how bad, is a million miles ahead of you. It got team up and running. And a relatively decent team at that. Has any one of you got the contacts within the game? Would a coach of Scott Naylor's calibre or better think twice before joining your set up? Repeating yourself doesn't get things done. I know whats wrong and I'm still of the opinion that not turning up is not the answer.
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In the first instance the existing club, supporters association and Rugby Oldham should get together to map out this future, all the bodies have to bought in to any new vision. This then needs to be shared with rfl and others.

Various options can be explored.

While the current club and RO exist, there's no point in doing what you're asking which is essentially setting up a new 'club' or supporters trust, when rfl and trust governance would not sanction either.

I have said that I am happy to meet with CH and to be part of a supporters trust that has the purpose of ownership or part ownership of the club (RO with a changed constitution). I'm also happy to be part of the multi agency project mentioned above.

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Creating yet another separate organisation, while the current club still exists is not the answer. Collaboration, engagement and inclusion is the way forward. Further fracturing and diluting of the RL community and supporters is not.

I would like RO to form the solution - either with the current club, as part of it, or in setting up a new club should this one fail.

I, personally, have no standing in the game. But I will repeat my commitment to give all my ideas, expertise, time and some cash to a supporters trust that shares my values and vision. While I support the team, unfortunately, I feel I cannot in good conscience and common sense give those commitments to the current ownership/ business model.

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Tubey , this all makes perfect and logical sense.The order of play is common sense.I personally would not wish to deal with the existing

Regime .But I would not knock anyone for trying.Mr foots insistance that loads of people barring seemingly himself put an organisation in place in to run parallel with the club in case it folds? I have better things to do at the moment.However when the day comes for forming the said organisation ie when the existing folds I will be there and I hope the artfull foot will be with a contribution big or small , it does not matter.

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Logic when you state this is the best coaching set up the new club have had I presume you forgot Mike Ford, THOHAF what makes you think Scott Naylor is a great coach ? If he was as good as you believe he wouldn't be at Oldham. All supporters know lack of money is the main problem, so how can CH afford to lose two major sponsors due to his attitude towards them ? Then fail to contact a potential new sponsor Clifford, Manchester Rangers are proof of what can be achieved with volunteers and hard work and I find it embarrassing that they had more at their game on Friday night than ORLFC had for the last home fixture.

Like I have said in previous posts the majority of the debt can only be in directors loans, I would suggest it is deferred wages otherwise the club would already have been wound up, simple terms CH remaining means no progression.

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The simple fact is that unless CH is prepared to talk to all the fans to keep us informed like he promised in 1997.

 

 We get new investors to inject much needed cash into the club by either seeing the books and working along side CH or by buying him out then the future looks bleak.

 

I doubt that CH will meet the fans and as he as never shown any director /investor ( including ML , SH, SW or WQ the books ) I doubt we will get investment into the club.

 

There is no point fans arguing among themselves or insulting each other it serves no purpose.

 

CH holds all the cards and until he plays them no one wins.

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One of the things we have to take into account re attendance is .

 

How many fans have passed away in recent years or who can no longer attend matches even if they want to do.

 

How many young people who play rugby at amateur level support the club.

 

Attendances are dwindling in every league.

 

In my opinion the biggest mistake made by the RFL was to switch to summer rugby.

_____________________________________________________________________

 

 

this ^^^ very much this, I would say that Oldham has one of the oldest average age of supporters around! 

As Harry says, a lot have passed on to the great luxury stand in the sky, or are to elderly to attend due to physical/mental/age related infirmities.

 

Ive heard a few people saying...oh our best times were the 80's.....you know what....a hell of a lot of Widnes supporters (and i bet other team supporters) cite that decade as one of their teams best.....maybe its because the country had so much disposable income due to the development of dot com industries etc (they dont call in the decade of hedonistic extravagance and decadence for nothing)

 

Harry is right, there is less disposable income around, and for some (and ive said SOME) folk, its a toss up between paying a bill and going to a match, or a toss up between grabbing an extra shift, or going to a match....its the same everywhere these days...weve had a double/treble/quadruple dip recession, and a lot of businesses and jobs have gone belly up in the last 5 years....stands to reason that gates would drop.

 

Has anyone thought of crowdfunding or anything like that....if people donate to pay for someones fake boobs or their IVF...maybe sports lovers would donate to help ORLFC?

 

I dont know, im just chucking ideas around just like saint coach  :dontknow:

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