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As it now appears the Director of Participation and Strategic Partnerships (DPSP) has semi (New Role?) left the RFL Building who is the person with the biggest brush to sweep up the mess that’s left behind?

            Nobody can blame any individual for the state the game is in, but the recently departed DPSP has allowed the Amateur game to follow policies that has seen a dramatic decline in Participation, was Participation not part of the title.

In my view (No Particular Order)

·        The Amateur game is in turmoil (Or should I say Community Game)

·        Is RL Participation at its lowest level since pre 2010? (Co-incidence there?)

·        Standards are poor and I would include the British Professional game

·        The small band of RFL officials running the Community game have become experts at staying quiet when asked questions that they don’t want to answer.

·        Disillusioned Volunteers throughout the game.

·        The RFL have just had £573,000 taken off them by Sports England for not reaching participation figures, luckily this is still being used in RL

·        Where is the legacy of the World Cup?

·        Outside of the declining heartlands there are a few dozen clubs playing RL in the RU off season, with hard working volunteers setting up Teams and finding no body to play.

·        The RFL say there is an increase in 9 a side and Touch but not 13 a side and then advertise we will win the world cup in 2017 and every home series to 2021 will we really do this playing touch?

·        We will have followed an 11 year strategy plan to 2021 and we will not even have the numbers we started with, please see the attached evidence, which figures do you believe?

·        Please copy and paste to see a quote from David Gent saying we have 100,000 participants in 2012 we now have 46,000 their quotes not mine, they do have a way with words

 http://forums.rugbyleagueplanet.com/topic/4685968/1/

 

 

So where do we go from here? Oh yes with a track record like this we will use his expertise to see us through the 2016 Whole Sports Plan and look forward to working with him on a whole range of important projects quotes Ralph Rimmer

            I will remember the Ex DPSP for a number of quotes

·        “Follow the RFL’s 4 season plan and you will increase Participation and Revenue”

·        “You will have that many players you won’t know what to do with them”

·        “The strong will survive but there will be Collateral damage”

 

Has the Ex DPSP just become the RFL’s Fall Guy???

Participation Evidence.pdf

Participation Evidence 2.pdf

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How ironic is it the RFL orchestrate a move to a summer season for the community game our game collapses at youth and OA .

Yet according to these figures the schools and colleges are thriving in predominantly a winter season along with rugby union.

Of course we are just being paranoid our critics will claim but the evidence supports the conspiracy theory ,

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 As nobody has any comments I thought I would show the Sports England Participation APS figures as these are what the RFL use and are paid on in terms of funding. The list below gives a comparison with Rugby Union

 

APS                Year                RL and Participation           RU and Participation

1                      2005-6                        73,700                                    185,000

2                      2007-8                        82,000                                    230,000

3                      2008-9                        63,000                                    207,000

4                      2009-10                     52,300                                    194,000         

5                      2010-11                     51,000                                    179,000

6                      2011-12                     51,000                                    183,000

7                      2012-13                     53,500                                    160,000

8                      2013-14                     32,500                                    178,000

 

This shows participation once a week 16+ in the 2 sports and does not include minis, when you do 14+ it makes similar reading

            Please note from 2005-14 RU has seen a decrease to 2014 of 3.8% despite peaking in 2008. During the same period RL has seen a decrease of 56% despite peaking in 2008, let’s see what legacy the RU gain from their world cup.

            I would like to put a vote of no confidence in the RFL Management as this makes grim reading, we are now 29th most participated sport behind Shooting and Archery, and just in front of Taekwondo, please feel free to Google Sports England Participation   

 

Let’s use the Ex DPSP's expertise to help us through important decisions  ;)

 

What did Nigel Pearson recently say "You are an Ostrich"

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There is a big problem with the same players having a winter club and a summer club. I don't think it's a coincidence the game is close to collapse in Widnes but has 'only' had a 20% decline across Lancashire as a whole. This is because Widnes had a 50:50 split between the seasons whereas everywhere else in the county was mainly playing one season. Still doesn't explain the collapse in Huddersfield clubs towards the end of the Pennine league season as the players can't all be playing at Underbank

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There is a big problem with the same players having a winter club and a summer club. I don't think it's a coincidence the game is close to collapse in Widnes but has 'only' had a 20% decline across Lancashire as a whole. This is because Widnes had a 50:50 split between the seasons whereas everywhere else in the county was mainly playing one season. Still doesn't explain the collapse in Huddersfield clubs towards the end of the Pennine league season as the players can't all be playing at Underbank

 

Bowes you seem to answer the questions with the same statement, please answer some of the questions above, I am sure you are not happy with a 20% reduction across Lancashire and a 56% decline in participation across the game in 10 years, I think we would all agree the reduction in development officers has been a major factor.

I can only go by figures on the internet but the RFL hold all the registrations so if the figures are not correct you would think they would be shouting about it so the figures are obviously not far off. If we have 32,000 16+ and 46,000 in total we have about 14,000 6-15 year olds

Even though the Kiwis are the No 1 playing nation at the moment I would still say the Australians have the best game in terms of participation and in my view standards there are 110,000 14+ participants in RL just behind RU with 113,000 but in the 6-13 RL has 226,000 RU is not in the top 20 for this age group meaning a total of 339,000 making it the 15th ranked sport in Australia. You would think the RFL would mirror the Aussies and learn from them but no at the Mini Mod game we are following a concept already rejected by the Aussies.

In the 2010-12 Game Strategy the RFL said we will have 114,000 players by 2012 we have 46,000 a -59% difference, in the 2014-21 Game Strategy they have now amended this figure to 66,000 still a reduction of -42% on where the RFL said we would be in 2012, if the RFL were the government they would have been voted out, if a business they would be in administration.

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Serious question, has the figure remained steady since development money dried up?

I would say NO as the reduction started around the time the money was reduced but cannot be 100% sure on this, to be fair the figures seemed stable during the introduction of summer but has now dropped again

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Outside of Widnes the decline in the North West has halted at open age level. Sadly we lost Bold Miners and there are concerns with Bank Quay and Ashton Bears A but we've also gained some new sides to balance them out. The game in Widnes is a real worry with the reserves at West Bank and St Maries plus Widnes Tigers and Halton Farnworth Hornets all unable to raise a side regularly. Only the first teams as St Maries and West Bank, plus Halton Simms Cross are managing well. I have more concerns about the game in Yorkshire though, especially the mysterious collapse in Huddersfield.

Things that need to happen:

1. An end to U16 scholarships

2. One playing season for all

3. Merger of U17s and U18s in Yorkshire and the return of players to this age group from open age

4. The creation of a London, east and south east division similar to Conference League South in which Skolars and Hemel have to invest in and enter a reserve team

5. Bigger divisions in the North East and south like the successful strategy in the midlands, though this may not work for Devon and Cornwall

6. Regionalisation of division 2 of the NCL to create a smoother step up especially for teams in Lancashire and Cumbria

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Nice to see you have put some thought into it, my reply's in brackets

Things that need to happen:

1. An end to U16 scholarships

(Don't think this will happen even though I agree it needs looking at as it is part of the criteria of the professional clubs, if the plan to play more games and make the professional club the primary club happens it could lead to a disaster)

2. One playing season for all

(My view is the summer has been a disaster things would need to change whichever season you play in)

3. Merger of U17s and U18s in Yorkshire and the return of players to this age group from open age (Unfortunately too many under 18s are propping up the open age)

4. The creation of a London, east and south east division similar to Conference League South in which Skolars and Hemel have to invest in and enter a reserve team

(Teams seem to be reluctant to travel, there appear very few teams were we not expanding?)

5. Bigger divisions in the North East and south like the successful strategy in the midlands, though this may not work for Devon and Cornwall

(Again there are very few teams you stated Darlington have with drawn and other teams are not fulfilling fixtures you need more teams for bigger divisions this is not happening)

6. Regionalisation of division 2 of the NCL to create a smoother step up especially for teams in Lancashire and Cumbria

(That would be sensible so probably won't happen)

Edited by bowes, Today, 01:39 PM.

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We've had the CLS debate ad nauseum. It's a dog's breakfast of a league and the problem is the everywhere and everything other than the south and East amateur teams. The NCL being what it is means that there's always the Sheffield Hallam Eagles problem, the gap between the best and the rest in the Midlands and Wales, the semi-pro reserves... there are a lot of issues, it's a solution for several problems and it solves none of them.

Ultimately, there needs to be a nationwide look at this. The South is always blamed but only obvious candidate to enter the CLS, the SWL Chargers makes the very obvious point that the league is geographically too large for pay-to-play amateurs to be able to afford.

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CLS is working very well this season, but as you say it doesn't cover the south and east. I think we need to work towards a league covering that area but it may take a few years to build towards

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Ignoring that one of the longest tenured sides around, who objected to the expansion of the league and the lack of consultation, had to pull out, it's been a roaring success. I suppose it hasn't been any less unstable than the leagues that supposedly feed it, though that is damning it with faint praise.

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Bowes you go on about bigger leagues, you have to bare in mind most of the leagues below have been going for years and are shrinking, I list the results outside the heartlands from yesterday

 

The results have been taken off the web so I cannot help it if there are results missing, I am sure there will have been other games

North East

OA        2

Junior   1

London Area

OA        2

Junior  11 (13-17)

Eastern

OA        3

Midland

OA        6

Southern Conference

OA        4

Wales

OA        3

Scotland

OA        0

South West

OA        0

Cumbria

OA        9

Junior   0

 

41 matches, if each team had 17 players that's less than 1400 playing rugby league throughout the rest of the country, but we will win the RL World Cup in 2017 say the RFL

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There are more clubs than that due to leagues having odd numbers etc. For what it's worth if the North East was one big division then Darlington might have survived rather than having to play in a small division above their playing ability. We tried that approach in the midlands and it's worked well.

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It appears the London League has been going since 1965 and we had 2 open age matches yesterday not a good return

I said there will have been other games so let's double it and call it 80 matches that's 3,000 players out of the heartlands so out of 46,000 players only 6.5% are outside of the Yorkshire and Lancashire run leagues

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It appears the London League has been going since 1965 and we had 2 open age matches yesterday not a good return

I said there will have been other games so let's double it and call it 80 matches that's 3,000 players out of the heartlands so out of 46,000 players only 6.5% are outside of the Yorkshire and Lancashire and run leagues

The old London League also covered the South East and East (and at different times Swindon, Cheltenham, Aberavon, Nottingham and Corby), the game did have an expansion push in the mid to late 80s that largely died off to be replaced with off season RU players. I think you just have to look at what we've got now and work out the best way forward. The East and London Premier's are alright for now, but there has to be ambition to get the better clubs from both back into a single stronger division, possibly including Northampton and Oxford Cavaliers

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Where doomed, Bowes you attack winter season on certain points but then defend the same points in the summer season, you constantly comment on players who turn out in both seasons as a source of problems in the summer, you do seem to forget that this problem has been caused by the RFL's push to summer.

Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.

http://www.pitchero....hornemarauders/

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Where doomed, Bowes you attack winter season on certain points but then defend the same points in the summer season, you constantly comment on players who turn out in both seasons as a source of problems in the summer, you do seem to forget that this problem has been caused by the RFL's push to summer.

The winter season (outside of Hull and Pennine league division 6 West) have problems far in excess of the summer heartland leagues (which still do have a few issues in Yorkshire). Almost every division in the Pennine league had loads of clubs drop out this season (and every division had at least one). Clubs turning out in both seasons destroyed this year's Pennine league season to an extent without precedent (save in the remnant NWCL that dragged on for 2 and a half seasons).

 

I'd concede to some players wanting to play winter if they strictly separate all summer and winter players so there isn't overlap but we can't go on with 40% of Pennine league clubs just playing part of a season

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There were three games that played on Saturday in the London premier, two in the L&SE Cup, just two in the east. Two East premier games were postponed, two London Entry League games were cancelled (one because it was arguably arranged too close to the game), two cup games walked over, one due to a team folding for the season.

However, what anybody expects right now, i don't know. No money, no facilities, one dominant side, the two expected to challenge them are weaker than they were in the past. I'd love for things to be different but it could be, and has been, worse.

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There were three games that played on Saturday in the London premier, two in the L&SE Cup, just two in the east. Two East premier games were postponed, two London Entry League games were cancelled (one because it was arguably arranged too close to the game), two cup games walked over, one due to a team folding for the season.

However, what anybody expects right now, i don't know. No money, no facilities, one dominant side, the two expected to challenge them are weaker than they were in the past. I'd love for things to be different but it could be, and has been, worse.

 

I feel for you BBFAZ, as I posted before hard working volunteers trying to get teams together with nobody to play

 

Yet still the RFL stay quiet and when questioned it appears everything is ok

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What will be funnier still is the "WON'T THEY THINK OF THE CHILDREN" outrage when the plug gets pulled on the Broncos. They're being funded based on the myth they can bounce straight back into Super League. When that is disproved, what happens then? The Broncos will be de-funded.  At best they'll hang on, drift down to Championship 1 and become just another southern semi pro team.  At worst, they'll implode.  Either way, one of the great lies of the London junior system will help to kill the reputation of the game for a decade, which is "we think you have great potential to make it into the professional rugby league pathway".

 

Edited due to terrible grammar.  I get paid to teach English, I should be ashamed.

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What will be funnier still is the "WON'T THEY THINK OF THE CHILDREN" outrage when the plug gets pulled on the Broncos. They're being funded based on the myth they can bounce straight back into Super League. When that is disproved, what happens then? The Broncos will be de-funded.  At best they'll hang on, drift down to Championship 1 and become just another southern semi pro team.  At worst, they'll implode.  Either way, one of the great lies of the London junior system will help to kill the reputation of the game for a decade, which is "we think you have great potential to make it into the professional rugby league pathway".

 

Edited due to terrible grammar.  I get paid to teach English, I should be ashamed.

I would tick the "Like This" box but it's sad really

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There are so many problems to sort, where would you possibly start!

 

The answer has to be a long term strategy and get back funded development officers into primary schools and completely restructure the community board to reflect the playing participation numbers (ie - giving community clubs a bigger say in the running of the game seeing as they make up the highest number).

 

Scrap U16 scholarships, or at least create a system where the scholarships are ran in a similar way to County tournaments and let the pro clubs get off their backsides and scout amateur games to pick up a genuine talent as opposed to signing all and sundry to make up numbers.

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Regarding that, everybody talked about the amazing work the Broncos did when all they did was send a scout to cherry pick the best players from the London Origin Series.

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There are so many problems to sort, where would you possibly start!

 

The answer has to be a long term strategy and get back funded development officers into primary schools and completely restructure the community board to reflect the playing participation numbers (ie - giving community clubs a bigger say in the running of the game seeing as they make up the highest number).

 

Scrap U16 scholarships, or at least create a system where the scholarships are ran in a similar way to County tournaments and let the pro clubs get off their backsides and scout amateur games to pick up a genuine talent as opposed to signing all and sundry to make up numbers.

 

Regarding that, everybody talked about the amazing work the Broncos did when all they did was send a scout to cherry pick the best players from the London Origin Series.

 

You are both so right

 

I am not sure if the U16 scholarship proposal of playing 14 games instead of the 8 they play now and the professional club to be the primary club is still going ahead as this could be the death nail of the 15-16 age groups which then effect Open Age. You would expect the RFL to voice their opinion especially now the person who implemented all the strategy plans has left the building or was he just following orders.

      I am not saying switch back to winter but if the Community game played a different season to the scholarship there would be no conflict, you are right the Amateur club develops most of the players and the Pro clubs come and take the cream, when these are rejected it is then up to the Amateur club to find more players to fulfill their fixtures

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