Calais: what to do.

[JohnM]

The official EU stats for 2014,  (and we all trust and love the EU on here, don't we) are as follows.  These are applications but  it does not state if anyone has made multiple applications to more than one country

 

Germany

- Syria 41,100

- Serbia , 27145

- Eritrea 13255

- other 101975

( the other category is not broken down but I am sure the seeker after truth on here can do that themselves.)

 

Belgium received applications from 1850 Russians

Spain took 895 Ukrainian applications

Cyprus had applications fro 895 Ukrainians

Hungary had applications form 21, 456 Kosovans

Po;and received applications form 4000 Russians

France received applications from 3,000 Albanians

 

   it's  not that many (post #142 - "not many Russians, Serbs or Bosnian asylum seekers these days") and in any case there is plenty of room in Suffolk, for example.

 

Note from same source: The highest number of positive asylum decisions (first instance and final decisions) in 2014 was recorded in Germany (48 thousand), followed by Sweden (33 thousand), France and Italy (both 21 thousand), the United Kingdom (14 thousand) and the Netherlands (13 thousand). Altogether, these six Member States accounted for 81 % of the total number of positive decisions issued in the EU-28.

 

Disclosure: I'd  let all the Calais migrants swarm in, and I'd let them work. There are around half a million advertised job vacancies in the UK, according to ONS

[ckn]

The official EU stats for 2014,  (and we all trust and love the EU on here, don't we) are as follows.  These are applications but  it does not state if anyone has made multiple applications to more than one country

 

Germany

- Syria 41,100

- Serbia , 27145

- Eritrea 13255

- other 101975

( the other category is not broken down but I am sure the seeker after truth on here can do that themselves.)

 

Belgium received applications from 1850 Russians

Spain took 895 Ukrainian applications

Cyprus had applications fro 895 Ukrainians

Hungary had applications form 21, 456 Kosovans

Po;and received applications form 4000 Russians

France received applications from 3,000 Albanians

 

   it's  not that many (post #142 - "not many Russians, Serbs or Bosnian asylum seekers these days") and in any case there is plenty of room in Suffolk, for example.

 

Note from same source: The highest number of positive asylum decisions (first instance and final decisions) in 2014 was recorded in Germany (48 thousand), followed by Sweden (33 thousand), France and Italy (both 21 thousand), the United Kingdom (14 thousand) and the Netherlands (13 thousand). Altogether, these six Member States accounted for 81 % of the total number of positive decisions issued in the EU-28.

 

Disclosure: I'd  let all the Calais migrants swarm in, and I'd let them work. There are around half a million advertised job vacancies in the UK, according to ONS

As this subject is about those wanting to come to the UK, I assumed the context was around asylum seekers here therefore there really aren't that many Russian, Serb and Bosnian asylum seekers here.  Also, to claim asylum you have to remain resident in one country, a multiple entry would see you get neither.

 

I'm glad that you can agree that the UK really isn't the great attraction of the EU that it is described as by the right-wing media rags.  We do take our share, about average across the EU, but we're certainly not where all asylum seekers would go.

 

Personally, if I were an asylum seeker, I'd go to Germany or Sweden.  I'd give the UK a damn big miss given the hysteria towards those trying to claim asylum.

[Saint Toppy]

I think you may need to stay out of the sun for a while.

 

The top 5 places of origin for asylum seekers in the UK in 2014 are as follows: Pakistan (3990), Eritrea (3280), Iran (2500), Syria (2410) and Albania (1890).  Russia, Serbia and Bosnia don't even make the list of top 20 countries and if any they'd be grouped in the "other" category.

No idea about the politics of Eritra & Albania but certainly Pakistan, Iran & Syria have cultures & beliefs that are fundamentally different to ours in the UK and in the case of Iran & Pakistan have governments that support organisations we in the west consider to be terrorists. Letting in thousands of people from some of these countries certainly has a risk that some of them wont be coming here to peacefully settle & work under our laws. The  numbers may be small but how many future Abu Hamza's will there be in these groups ?

[gingerjon]

Pakistan, Iran & Syria have cultures & beliefs that are fundamentally different to ours in the UK a

 

There are Christians in all of those countries fleeing persecution.

 

Nigel Farage is on record as saying we should let them in.

 

The difficulty, I guess, is that they might not have filled in the correct visa application.  What with being poor, desperate and at risk of imminent death.

[Wolford6]

In a matter of twelve months we could probably develop a fish-processing plant in the Falklands with decent accommodation, schools and creches. Then we could  offer the Calais illegals a chance to go there and earn both a good wage and, in due course, British residence rights. 

 

I don't reckon many would take up the option.

[gingerjon]

Did you put on your snide pants today, Jon?

 

Nope.

 

But I am reading a thread about a desperate group of people that no one has a clue what to do with nor how to prevent a recurrence of this situation and thinking, "Fine, you may not believe they have any right to come to Europe or the UK but the very least you could is recognise that their day to day suffering is far in excess of anything you will ever face. (Unless, that is, your life has been so reduced that you will give all you have to be smuggled, with a high risk of death, across continents, leaving everything behind in the hope that one day you might qualify for a few free meals until you are sent back to start all over again.)"

 

Like I say: nobody has answers.  But I will judge those who lose their humanity.

[gingerjon]

 

 

I don't reckon many would take up the option.

 

Really?  I reckon loads would.

[JohnM]

I will judge those who lose their humanity.

How's it going so far, God? Lets see your list.

[fieldofclothofgold]

Can anybody remember where they put all the stuff that they excavated from when the tunnels were dug out?

 

I've just had a great idea where we can put it.

back ?

[Saint Toppy]

In a matter of twelve months we could probably develop a fish-processing plant in the Falklands with decent accommodation, schools and creches. Then we could  offer the Calais illegals a chance to go there and earn both a good wage and, in due course, British residence rights. 

 

I don't reckon many would take up the option.

Not a bad idea,

They could do a bit of 'national service' as well in maintaining the security of the island from the Argies allowing us to only have a minimal full time army presence there.

It would probably also be cheaper to build some low cost housing on the island for them and a few factories so business in the UK that currently outsource to China could have their good manufactured in the Falklands instead.

If these people are genuinely fleeing persecution and not just coming for economic reasons then i'm sure they would be more than happy with a life on the Falklands. Those that turn down this opportunity it would then be obvious that they have other reasons for wanting to get into the UK, not just for a safe place to live & work.

[ckn]

8 posts deleted.  Some people are really just now pushing it and seeing how far they can go before a ban comes in, it's not far away, trust me.

[Bedford Roughyed]

Not a bad idea,

They could do a bit of 'national service' as well in maintaining the security of the island from the Argies allowing us to only have a minimal full time army presence there.

It would probably also be cheaper to build some low cost housing on the island for them and a few factories so business in the UK that currently outsource to China could have their good manufactured in the Falklands instead.

If these people are genuinely fleeing persecution and not just coming for economic reasons then i'm sure they would be more than happy with a life on the Falklands. Those that turn down this opportunity it would then be obvious that they have other reasons for wanting to get into the UK, not just for a safe place to live & work.

 

Now you want to arm them?  What about all those terrorists???

 

(Doubt the Bennys will be happy at this masterplan either...)

[bowes]

As this subject is about those wanting to come to the UK, I assumed the context was around asylum seekers here therefore there really aren't that many Russian, Serb and Bosnian asylum seekers here. Also, to claim asylum you have to remain resident in one country, a multiple entry would see you get neither.

I'm glad that you can agree that the UK really isn't the great attraction of the EU that it is described as by the right-wing media rags. We do take our share, about average across the EU, but we're certainly not where all asylum seekers would go.

Personally, if I were an asylum seeker, I'd go to Germany or Sweden. I'd give the UK a damn big miss given the hysteria towards those trying to claim asylum.

Contrary to popular belief the UK is actually one of the most tolerant countries in Europe as regards immigrants from outside of Europe. The former West Germany tends to be tolerant, the East much less so, but overall there are a lot of attacks on asylum accommodation and politicians sympathetic to asylum seekers. Sweden the tolerance is basically a case of here's an abandoned industrial area go live there refugees and we'll give you generous benefits. We recognise your culture as equal so no need to learn Swedish or integrate. Net consequence is Sweden being the most hopelessly segregated country in western Europe (France is very bad as well) and a load of riots not all that long ago

[fieldofclothofgold]

How are these people surviving? Who is feeding them?

[JohnM]

Various charities.

[GeordieSaint]

Not a bad idea,

They could do a bit of 'national service' as well in maintaining the security of the island from the Argies allowing us to only have a minimal full time army presence there.

It would probably also be cheaper to build some low cost housing on the island for them and a few factories so business in the UK that currently outsource to China could have their good manufactured in the Falklands instead.

To quash this idea (and hope it was tongue in cheek):

a) There is already a minimal Army presence on the Islands; never any more than 400 at a time

b ) Expensive to build on the islands as nearly all materials are imported

c) Cost of living is reasonably expensive due to reasons at point b

d) Exporting is expensive due to transportation costs

e) The islanders, whilst very accommodating, would reject this idea as they govern themselves and have the right to self-determination.

f) The infrastructure i.e. medical facilities, schools etc aren't in place to deal with such numbers considering there is never more than 4.5k people on the island at any one time.

[Griff9of13]

To quash this idea (and hope it was tongue in cheek):

a) There is already a minimal Army presence on the Islands; never any more than 400 at a time

Expensive to build on the islands as nearly all materials are imported

c) Cost of living is reasonably expensive due to reasons at point b

d) Exporting is expensive due to transportation costs

e) The islanders, whilst very accommodating, would reject this idea as they govern themselves and have the right to self-determination.

f) The infrastructure i.e. medical facilities, schools etc aren't in place to deal with such numbers considering there is never more than 4.5k people on the island at any one time.

A far too sensible response.

[Lounge Room Lizard]

Nope.

 

But I am reading a thread about a desperate group of people that no one has a clue what to do with nor how to prevent a recurrence of this situation and thinking, "Fine, you may not believe they have any right to come to Europe or the UK but the very least you could is recognise that their day to day suffering is far in excess of anything you will ever face. (Unless, that is, your life has been so reduced that you will give all you have to be smuggled, with a high risk of death, across continents, leaving everything behind in the hope that one day you might qualify for a few free meals until you are sent back to start all over again.)"

 

Like I say: nobody has answers.  But I will judge those who lose their humanity.

Theres desperate people in your area that are suffering but have been told by the Government that there is no money for them and that cuts are being made to social services and other areas where they need help. But its easy to forget these people  and throw money on Refugees who are so desperate that they have ignored a number of safe havens to end up in Northern Europe. Its Refugees choice to take high risk journeys across continents and seas. There are safe areas much nearer to them and that dont risk trips across the Med. 

 

So now you think you are God and judge people. Get a grip. Maybe look at yourself first before trying to judge others. People have various viewpoints that I agree/disagree with, but I dont feel the need to judge people on what they think. 

[WearyRhino]

Theres desperate people in your area that are suffering but have been told by the Government that there is no money for them and that cuts are being made to social services and other areas where they need help. But its easy to forget these people and throw money on Refugees who are so desperate that they have ignored a number of safe havens to end up in Northern Europe. Its Refugees choice to take high risk journeys across continents and seas. There are safe areas much nearer to them and that dont risk trips across the Med.

So now you think you are God and judge people. Get a grip. Maybe look at yourself first before trying to judge others. People have various viewpoints that I agree/disagree with, but I dont feel the need to judge people on what they think.

You do realise that your second paragraph is a perfect critique of your first, yes?

[Lounge Room Lizard]

You do realise that your second paragraph is a perfect critique of your first, yes?

 Its not being judgemental, but a fact that the Refugees in Calais have made a choice to ignore safe havens near to where they come from and could have a better life than where they are now living rough. Did the Refugees from Africa  really need to go through Egypt and Lybia and then face a dangerous journey across water and then travel a couple of thousand miles to reach to reach a safe haven in Calais or the UK? No theres other options they could have used. The elderly and Disabled people in our area dont have such choices and are regularly being told sorry no money or help for you. I have relatives who have had funding for medication cut as there is not enough money they are told. They have now a poor health condition and have to struggle with the disability and pain when they should not have to. It angers me that there seems to be money and help available for Asylum Seekers, but people in need from our own area, who have paid in to the system for many years, are told sorry no money and left to struggle. 

[WearyRhino]

Its not being judgemental, but a fact that the Refugees in Calais have made a choice to ignore safe havens near to where they come from and could have a better life than where they are now living rough. Did the Refugees from Africa really need to go through Egypt and Lybia and then face a dangerous journey across water and then travel a couple of thousand miles to reach to reach a safe haven in Calais or the UK? No theres other options they could have used. The elderly and Disabled people in our area dont have such choices and are regularly being told sorry no money or help for you. I have relatives who have had funding for medication cut as there is not enough money they are told. They have now a poor health condition and have to struggle with the disability and pain when they should not have to. It angers me that there seems to be money and help available for Asylum Seekers, but people in need from our own area, who have paid in to the system for many years, are told sorry no money and left to struggle.

You really think that's the choice? If it is, why not ask yourself, in a world of enormous riches, why is that the choice. The world is a family of humanity. Which one of your family would you condemn to destitution in favour of another?

[Lounge Room Lizard]

You really think that's the choice? If it is, why not ask yourself, in a world of enormous riches, why is that the choice. The world is a family of humanity. Which one of your family would you condemn to destitution in favour of another?

There are camps in Jordan (Zaatari), Turkey (over 20!), Kenia (dadaab). People could go to Saudia Arabia but choose not to. Do Asylum Seekers Need to come to Europe to escape war Zones? No it is there choice to come here! These People decided to ignore these more local camps to try and get in to Europe and enter as illegal immigrants. That is their choice and their fault not ours. They dont belong here. They should be encouraged to go to local camps and the Money the EU Lands spend trying to Support them, should be spent on making sure camps have Basic facilities and that people head to local safe camps and not undertake dangerous Journeys to Europe.

 

You are a typical leftie who wants to invite the whole world to Europe. But you typically ignore the fact Europe cant Support this and has Hospitals in a poor state. Doctors and Nurses overworked and underpaid. I know of many cases where People have been told that they cant have an appointment at the Doctors/Dentists as they are overbooked! Yet you want thousands more to come in! The System in Europe is at breaking point in most lands. Among These People are War Criminals, Rapists, Murderers and violent people. They should not be here and should be sent back. Maybe one day you can wake up from your little dreamworld and see why People like me dont want these People here. We cant Support them as our own System is Close to breaking Point. You let a couple in and now we have a flood which is simply too much. It is their choice to come and risk a dangerous journey to Europe hoping to get free handouts.

[Saint Toppy]

The world is a family of humanity. Which one of your family would you condemn to destitution in favour of another?

Which loonie left textbook did you get this from ?

 

People aren't equal, countries aren't equal. There will always be rich & poor people, rich & poor countries. There will always be some war or conflict somewhere where the non-combatants are caught in the middle. Its always been that way througout the history of mankind. The notion that we're one big happy 'human' family where everyone has a duty to help every other person on the planet is laughable.

Humans are selfish by nature, they will always put themselves, their loved ones and their way of life first and protect that above all else. Even those who claim to be humanitarians and think we have a duty to help everyone in need only ever make token gestures themselves. Sure they'll give donations to charities like the Red Cross or in the case of the rich & famous offer themselves as the face of some findraising campaign, but at the end of the day they'll still go back to their own mansions and buy the best of everything for their own families.

No-one is saying we shouldn't be doing something to help these people but your deluded if you think people in the richer, more developed countries will throw open their doors, let in everyone who wants to come in and risk lowering their own standard of living.

 

You keep banging the leftie drum about showing compassion, so will you be offering to adopt one of these migrant children and bring them up as one of your own, or will you be offering your home to one of these migrant families and be feeding them out of your own pocket ? No I doubt it, just like everyone else you'll protect your own way of life first and just whine from the sidelines that the government should do more.

 

Those people who dont want to let these migrants in are at least being honest about wanting to protect their way of life. Those that do want to let them in are only happy to do so as long as someone else looks after them once they get here.

[gingerjon]

 

 

Those people who dont want to let these migrants in are at least being honest about wanting to protect their way of life.

 

Honest racists are my favourite kind of bigot.

[Saint Toppy]

Honest racists are my favourite kind of bigot.

The overwhelming majority of people who dont want to just open the doors arent racist or bigots, they're just selfish in wanting to maintain their own standard of living.

I dont care about race, colour or creed, if you read my earlier posts i'm actually in favour of a limited entry for some of these Calais migrants based on their ability to sustian themselves and contribute to our society. The doctors, nurses, teachers, etc., that are in these camps would be a huge benefit to the UK, not be a huge drain on our already over-stretched services.