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Makes good reading for me, someone will pick holes in it


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Let me be the first or probably 2nd or 3rd by the time I've finished tŷping this. The population for Wigan you gave was the metropolitan borough of Wigan rather than the town of Wigan which is something like 95,000 I believe.

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Im not sure what this tells us.

Does it mean Cas do ok compared to Leeds, or does it simply mean a town like Cas is too small and will struggle for growth?

Probably means both. The next question is, "Can Cas stay viable at that level?"

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Im not sure what this tells us.

Does it mean Cas do ok compared to Leeds, or does it simply mean a town like Cas is too small and will struggle for growth?

Yeah I think it tells us that cas have a ceiling of about 10-12000 due to their small population but teams like Salford, Warrington and Huddersfield have the potential of pushing towards the holy grail of 20000.

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Im not sure what this tells us.

Does it mean Cas do ok compared to Leeds, or does it simply mean a town like Cas is too small and will struggle for growth?

 

Could be both depending upon which metric is the priority.

 

For Cas does one expand maximum energies attracting new fans or focus on keeping existing and their immediate circle of friends and families. The clubs promotional, loyalty offering and pricing should be aimed at the strengthening the current fan and sponsorship base. Of course some effort to attracting new but its where the priority lies when it comes to allocating scarce resource.

 

Leeds may have the relative wealth to give equal weight to both. Identifying area's of the city to focus growth on. Given a City is typically a broader and different demographic than a town like Cas.

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Fair reflection

No, not at all.

Do Castleford only attract people from Castleford because they're called Castleford? If that's the case, Aston Villa's 34,133 compares nicely to their 27,917 population from the 2001 census (122% of their population!).

What is Castleford's target population in total? How many clubs do they share parts of that with? How big is the immediate population to them? That's what matters, not the population within the boundaries of their name.

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I think we can get 10k regularly. More would be too much, I think.

 

The table is a load of nonsense but......

 

Originally coming from this area, Castleford have a serious number of fans from the Pontefract, Knottingley, Selby area. It is not as clear cut as it is made out to be. 

 

As Scubby says Snapski your catchment area isn't just castleford and this is why it's baloney.

 

The demise of Wakefield if they end up a Hunslet, an Oldham or a Swinton could hand another large catchment area to Castleford.

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The table is a load of nonsense but......

As Scubby says Snapski your catchment area isn't just castleford and this is why it's baloney.

The demise of Wakefield if they end up a Hunslet, an Oldham or a Swinton could hand another large catchment area to Castleford.

Cas also draws good support from Kippax, Garforth, Methley, Swillington and Sherburn in Elmet all which have a Leeds postcode (not sure if they are included in the Leeds population figure).

Whisper it quietly, but their are a fair few Tigers in Featherstone as well!

"Rugby League is rugby in the simplest form in the sense that it's about great defence, great tackling technique, good handling, good passing, catching and great kicking."

 

 Stuart Lancaster - England Rugby Union Head Coach - October 2013

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Cas also draws good support from Kippax, Garforth, Methley, Swillington and Sherburn in Elmet all which have a Leeds postcode (not sure if they are included in the Leeds population figure).

Whisper it quietly, but their are a fair few Tigers in Featherstone as well!

 

Well we're back to this nonsensical assumption that people do not move house, people all stay in their home towns generation after generation, and people automatically go watch their local club no matter how bad they are.

 

We don't get access to postcode information from club marketing departments but anecdotally Wigan's reach is all around the north west. Of course the core of any crowd is around the location of the stadium but people travel to watch what they want to watch and we have Cas fans here in north west Leeds.

 

I have made thousands of tired old repetitive posts and one is of Cas afficianado Cas Vegas once explaining that he supports Cas but doesn't live in Cas and he knows a lot of Cas fans and they don't live in Cas either.

 

The finest place this new Cas ground can be and is being built on is next to a motorway junction, I wonder how many people are within half an hours drive from that???

 

300,000???

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Well we're back to this nonsensical assumption that people do not move house, people all stay in their home towns generation after generation, and people automatically go watch their local club no matter how bad they are.

We don't get access to postcode information from club marketing departments but anecdotally Wigan's reach is all around the north west. Of course the core of any crowd is around the location of the stadium but people travel to watch what they want to watch and we have Cas fans here in north west Leeds.

I have made thousands of tired old repetitive posts and one is of Cas afficianado Cas Vegas once explaining that he supports Cas but doesn't live in Cas and he knows a lot of Cas fans and they don't live in Cas either.

The finest place this new Cas ground can be and is being built on is next to a motorway junction, I wonder how many people are within half an hours drive from that???

300,000???

Not necessarily. If there aren't many people living immediately near the stadium, that will have an affect on their core support: The walk up crowds.

Not saying that is the case with Cas. I'm pretty sure they're already on the edge of town and their new site is in the other edge of town (and it's not a big town). But if Hull were to get a new stadium and bang it near the Humber Bridge (technically not in Hull, but still our target market... "Greater Hull" shall we say), they'll lose a lot of their walk up as there won't be as many people directly near it.

It's the Central Placement Theory. The further away you get from the placement, the less likely someone will come to it. If your target market is a 20 mile radius for example, those within a mile are far more likely (so need a populated area to start with), then 5 miles still fairly populated, then 10, 15 and 20 get progressively less likely. In the case of small town clubs like Cas, the issue comes when there isn't anyone (or very few) living outside that immediate few miles as they're all villages, and then their extended reach is also a bunch of villages and towns that have their own clubs. It's why Leeds have so much more scope as they have so much more within their immediate boundaries. The actual city/town boundaries have nothing to do with it.

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Just rejigged my memory of some of the terms used (I'm working off research I did for my dissertation over 6 years ago and I'm not reading the article again!).

Here's a diagram I found:

circle3.gif

The threshold is the minimum market needed.

The range is the absolute furthest anyone will travel.

Bare in mind that this wasn't written for sports clubs, but the principles are very transferable which is why I adapted it to sport, and why I rubbish the "town boundaries" argument that is constantly thrown out there.

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It's the Central Placement Theory. The further away you get from the placement, the less likely someone will come to it. If your target market is a 20 mile radius for example, those within a mile are far more likely (so need a populated area to start with), then 5 miles still fairly populated, then 10, 15 and 20 get progressively less likely. In the case of small town clubs like Cas, the issue comes when there isn't anyone (or very few) living outside that immediate few miles as they're all villages, and then their extended reach is also a bunch of villages and towns that have their own clubs. It's why Leeds have so much more scope as they have so much more within their immediate boundaries. 

 

This is fully appreciated, but other factors may well click in like in Leeds many people choose the soccer over the Rugby League. That isn't an option in the Wakefield district/Calder area.

 

An honest unbiased estimate from anyone as to Hull FC and Leeds Rhinos crowds if Hull City and Leeds United did not exist?

 

Another factor is the salary capping that means that at a certain level of crowd a club can compete even though another club get's bigger crowds.

 

As I understand it Castleford may not have to match Leeds  crowd levels to be competitive with them.

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Well we're back to this nonsensical assumption that people do not move house, people all stay in their home towns generation after generation, and people automatically go watch their local club no matter how bad they are.

 

We don't get access to postcode information from club marketing departments but anecdotally Wigan's reach is all around the north west. Of course the core of any crowd is around the location of the stadium but people travel to watch what they want to watch and we have Cas fans here in north west Leeds.

 

I have made thousands of tired old repetitive posts and one is of Cas afficianado Cas Vegas once explaining that he supports Cas but doesn't live in Cas and he knows a lot of Cas fans and they don't live in Cas either.

 

The finest place this new Cas ground can be and is being built on is next to a motorway junction, I wonder how many people are within half an hours drive from that???

 

300,000???

Surely it's the proximity to a train station , as nobody in Yorkshires drives ive been told

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This is fully appreciated, but other factors may well click in like in Leeds many people choose the soccer over the Rugby League. That isn't an option in the Wakefield district/Calder area.

An honest unbiased estimate from anyone as to Hull FC and Leeds Rhinos crowds if Hull City and Leeds United did not exist?

Another factor is the salary capping that means that at a certain level of crowd a club can compete even though another club get's bigger crowds.

As I understand it Castleford may not have to match Leeds crowd levels to be competitive with them.

Yeah, of course there are other factors that determine crowds other than population. Not just the presence of soccer, but the the demographics of the area, the economy, the club's history, brand recognition, etc. The list goes on. But that's a different topic. This is more of the "who" to attract, rather than the "what".

The Psychological Continuum Model (4As to Allegiance) is another good theory on that one, giving the different support of each person and how likely they are to support their club and how often they will.

But in general terms of population (quantity-wise) the Central Place Theory (not Placement, my bad) is a good rule of thumb on potential.

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I am Cas fan who lives in Cas from Cas but also lived in Birstall for 15 year I can honstley say I find more support out side Cas.Just look at the towns around Cas you will find Cas fans every were in Yorkshire think the population thing is rubish. But I do find it funny when we play Leeds in semi or finals or magic week end we always bring more support than them.

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