Jump to content

Bottom four 2016


Recommended Posts

Read the OP it's predictions for the bottom four. Your way off topic.

 

Thanks for the Warning. ....

I was actually pointing out that the bottom 4 doesn't change that much and was therefore on topic....actually, the bottom 6 is pretty much bolted on every year!

6 Teams have made the 8 every time in the last 5 years, and then Hull FC have made it 4.....so very close to the same 7 plus 1. Wire, Leeds, Wigan and Saints have dominated the semis with Hudds and Catalans being the only other contenders.......care to guess who the 6 sides are who've made the 8 every time?

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Replies 115
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Nice try with the diversionary tactics but you've completely failed to address the point made in my original post ie how a team finishing in 8th place, which has spent the whole season in the top 8, and 4 points ahead of the 9th placed team can be described as having SNEAKED into the top 8.  It's impossible to SNEAK into somewhere when you've been there all the time.

 

Chris, I looked it up and Widnes finished in eigth 2014 by four points from HKR who they managed to beat and gain a rare away win with a five point margin at New Craven Park.

 

Had Rovers scored a late converted try Rovers would have had eighth it was as close as that.

 

In one way coming from the Championship Widnes did very well to get eigth. However HKR got it in 2013, and Wakefield got it in 2012 Hull got it in 2011 and Crusaders 2010.

 

None of these clubs have hardly been setting Superleague alight have they so it wasn't as if eigth was the sign of going places.

 

You also have to remember that 2014 was the year London and Bradford fell apart and Wakey were on their way, well done indeed Widnes but you were hardly mixing it with the big boys.

 

I can change it to "Widnes hung onto eigth place thanks to the collapse of London, Wakefield and Bradford" if you would like??

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

1. I was actually pointing out that the bottom 4 doesn't change that much and was therefore on topic

 

2. care to guess who the 6 sides are who've made the 8 every time?

 

1. Franchises wasn't on topic and you didn't open a new thread to explain it? Perhaps you've realised we already have franchises.

 

2. I can look the answer up to that one, your view the bottom four does not change much seems to be the view of everyone. Nobody has firmly predicted any more than one change in the bottom four.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Chris, I looked it up and Widnes finished in eigth 2014 by four points from HKR who they managed to beat and gain a rare away win with a five point margin at New Craven Park.

Had Rovers scored a late converted try Rovers would have had eighth it was as close as that.

In one way coming from the Championship Widnes did very well to get eigth. However HKR got it in 2013, and Wakefield got it in 2012 Hull got it in 2011 and Crusaders 2010.

None of these clubs have hardly been setting Superleague alight have they so it wasn't as if eigth was the sign of going places.

You also have to remember that 2014 was the year London and Bradford fell apart and Wakey were on their way, well done indeed Widnes but you were hardly mixing it with the big boys.

I can change it to "Widnes hung onto eigth place thanks to the collapse of London, Wakefield and Bradford" if you would like??

Ifs buts and maybes. Thought you were better than that

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeh I reckon we'll sneakily do something similar this year as we can't "set the world alight" or "mix it with the big boys" (who can btw, other than the top 4 anyway?) and so we'll snidely skulk around near the bottom just biding our time until after R23 when we can show those mere championship teams how it's done  :fool:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

care to guess who the 6 sides are who've made the 8 every time?

Which 8 do you mean? Since the playoffs went to top 8, I have the following teams as ever present:

 

Wigan, St Helens, Leeds, Hudds

 

Who have I missed?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ifs buts and maybes. Thought you were better than that

Fair point. Parky will be telling us next that if Widnes had not conceded a try in the last 20 seconds away to Warrington they would have finished 8th this year.  I looked it up.  It was as close as that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Quote the whole post...I said in the last 5 years....6 sides with hull fc there 4 times....so very nearly the same 7+1

 

Yes in the last five years Saints, Wigan Leeds Wire Huddersfield,Catalans & Hull pretty much regulars.

 

We can argue all day on the stats taking the league as far back as we want to find some "variety".

 

But the trend and reason for it seems pretty solid now as the same bigger clubs with that bit more money (there is a cap), and better junior set ups are regularly staying top eight with only a little variance on the fringes.

 

I was looking at the recruitment across the bottom four clubs and everyone's comments about it, which were that is was fairly poor and left questions. These clubs are not bust and are professionals so I doubt anyone will go into freefall as they have more SKY money to keep player spending up, and can spend less off the pitch, and are protected from auto relegation.

 

But they seem to be in a bit of a trap to me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fair point. Parky will be telling us next that if Widnes had not conceded a try in the last 20 seconds away to Warrington they would have finished 8th this year.  I looked it up.  It was as close as that.

 

I concede the "sneaked" point entirely. 100% hands up, and hope that other posters will equally be hauled over the coals on grammatical errors that are just not the point at all.

 

Same clubs struggling, and coming 8th. is no sign they are not. After all in recent years HKR sneaked into 8th. Widnes Sneaked into 8th. Wakey sneaked into 8th, Crusaders sneaked 8th........

 

.........So Widnes's "charge towards the upper echelons of the Superleague" in 2014 was no greater an achievement than Crusaders and look what happened to them.

 

Have I got "echelons" wrong?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I concede the "sneaked" point entirely. 100% hands up, and hope that other posters will equally be hauled over the coals on grammatical errors that are just not the point at all.

 

 

From what I can see the criticism regarding your post about Widnes "sneaking" into 8th place was not of a grammatical error but rather a spurious interpretation of the facts.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Quote the whole post...I said in the last 5 years....6 sides with hull fc there 4 times....so very nearly the same 7+1

Apologies, missed that line rather than any attempt to be disingenuous!

 

Personally, and I suspect I differ from many on here, but I don't see a regular top 8 as a massive issue. There will always be an outsider popping up.

 

A few years back my team, Wire struggled to make the top half, now we are regulars. 

Hudds used to be propping up the table, now they are top 4.

Bradford used to be the best team, now are outside of SL.

Cas have been a revelation in the last couple of years.

Catalan and Hull have been very up and down.

Salford have the potential to be the next team to break into the top half regularly, although we'll see on that one.

 

Probably the main disappointment for me is that in 20 years we have still only had 4 winners, but then I think Wire and Hudds have blown good opportunities in recent years

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes in the last five years Saints, Wigan Leeds Wire Huddersfield,Catalans & Hull pretty much regulars.

 

We can argue all day on the stats taking the league as far back as we want to find some "variety".

 

But the trend and reason for it seems pretty solid now as the same bigger clubs with that bit more money (there is a cap), and better junior set ups are regularly staying top eight with only a little variance on the fringes.

 

I was looking at the recruitment across the bottom four clubs and everyone's comments about it, which were that is was fairly poor and left questions. These clubs are not bust and are professionals so I doubt anyone will go into freefall as they have more SKY money to keep player spending up, and can spend less off the pitch, and are protected from auto relegation.

 

But they seem to be in a bit of a trap to me.

For the variety point we can use whatever criteria we want tbh to paint a rosy or gloomy picture.

 

For example, if we look at the top 4:

'15 - Leeds, Saints, Wigan, Hudds

'14 - Saints, Wigan, Hudds, Cas

'13 - Hudds, Wire, Leeds, Wigan

'12 - Wigan, Wire, Saints, Catalan

'11 - Wire, Wigan, Saints, Hudds

 

So in 5 years we have had 7 different teams in the top 4 - more than half of the league.

In terms of Grand Finals we have had:

'15 - Wigan winning v Leeds

'14 - Saints winning v Wigan

'13 - Wigan winning v Wire

'12 - Leeds winning v Wire

'11 - Leeds winning v Saints

 

So 3 different winners in 5 years out of 4 teams (always rely on my team to mess it up). We haven't had the same final in consecutive years, which is positive after the repetitive Leeds v Saints finals - but tbh I think the real positives will come when the likes of Wire, Hudds and Catalan start to win titles.

 

Personally, I'm ok with the variety.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I concede the "sneaked" point entirely. 100% hands up, and hope that other posters will equally be hauled over the coals on grammatical errors that are just not the point at all.

 

Same clubs struggling, and coming 8th. is no sign they are not. After all in recent years HKR sneaked into 8th. Widnes Sneaked into 8th. Wakey sneaked into 8th, Crusaders sneaked 8th........

 

.........So Widnes's "charge towards the upper echelons of the Superleague" in 2014 was no greater an achievement than Crusaders and look what happened to them.

 

Have I got "echelons" wrong?

 

these things take time Parky, we only returned in 2012 and were doing well, slowly progressing toward being a mid-table team.....then they cut the no. teams and so we were bound to be mixing with the "new lower echelons"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

From what I can see the criticism regarding your post about Widnes "sneaking" into 8th place was not of a grammatical error but rather a spurious interpretation of the facts.

 

From what I can see you have taken my mention of Widnes making the eight as some sort of criticism of the clubs finishing position, in terms of "they only just made it".

 

Well even though they just made it, it was a great effort by the club after a limited time in SL on a limited budget. No criticism intended on my part - paranoia on yours?

 

Other clubs who just made/sneaked/edged into/made by a mile/walked the eight at times include Wakey & HKR and it's years since Salford were there. 

 

So the current bottom four clubs have been there many times in recent years and if not have been just outside it.

 

Now you need to take exception to the word "just"........see below

Link to comment
Share on other sites

these things take time Parky, we only returned in 2012 and were doing well, slowly progressing toward being a mid-table team.....then they cut the no. teams and so we were bound to be mixing with the "new lower echelons"

 

That two clubs were relegated supposedly dragged you down seems like Phil's "spurious interpretation of the facts" eighth is eighth......

 

Anyway facts time for you Widnes boys......

 

2014 Widnes won 9 and drew one of their games against current SL clubs

2015 Widnes won 9 and drew one of their games against current SL clubs

 

Eight in this factual context is "borderline" one year the results gets you sneaking just into eighth, another year the same results get you slipping just out to ninth.

 

These things do not take time Chuffer, they take:-

 

1. A Rich benefactor pouring money in

2. Sizeable crowds

3. Quality signings

 

Sadly you lose on all three, as do Wakey. No criticism intended just facts. As is the fact Catalans Hull and Wire who came above you are much richer clubs with many more fans and better junior set ups.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That two clubs were relegated supposedly dragged you down seems like Phil's "spurious interpretation of the facts" eighth is eighth......

 

 

 

It's not that less numbers means we're being dragged down.....it's just that, in your context of "being able to mix it with the big boys" and "upper echelons", we were gradually working our way up from being bottom of the table to a mid-table team, but now that there's less teams and the competition is tougher,  we're no longer mid-table, we're in the lower rungs again.

 

Surely no one in their right mind thought we'd re-enter super league and "take it by storm" overnight though?.....slow and steady progress is all we expected. 

 

I agree that we need to increase crowds, this will in turn increase revenue and enable us to sign better players and hopefully work our way further up the table. However, chucking money at a team doesn't always work (see Salford). They don't have the crowds but that's a means to an end (revenue), with a big money backer and quality signings they still haven't "set the world alight".

 

We could be in a better position, yes - but does this mean that we're "struggling"? Well if we are then most of SL is I'd say.....we can't all be Top 4 (would you rather SL was reduced to 4 teams?) even then I guess the team in 4th place would also be struggling eh?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

last season widnes were woefully weak in the threequarters so denis signs bridge, runciman and thompson magically  strengthening our threequarter line, add to that the emergence of the likes of ryan ince and the chapelow brothers from the academy and we look a lot stronger this coming season

"Why is Napoleon crying ?" said one sailor to the other, "poor ###### thinks he's being exiled to st helens" came the reply.

https://scontent-a-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1455957_262746450543197_276002364_n.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

last season widnes were woefully weak in the threequarters so denis signs bridge, runciman and thompson magically  strengthening our threequarter line, add to that the emergence of the likes of ryan ince and the chapelow brothers from the academy and we look a lot stronger this coming season

 

Seventh???

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Seventh???

 

 

 

watch runciman go, phil gould rated him one of the best young nrl players and he played junior origin and junior kangaroos, plus he is only 21 

"Why is Napoleon crying ?" said one sailor to the other, "poor ###### thinks he's being exiled to st helens" came the reply.

https://scontent-a-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1455957_262746450543197_276002364_n.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.