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THE RED ROOSTER

Member Since 06 Dec 2005
Offline Last Active Yesterday, 04:13 PM
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#2986775 Sinfield Quits International Rugby (Merged threads)

Posted by THE RED ROOSTER on 01 September 2014 - 07:32 PM

There are times when you just have to say thank you for your service.It would appear some don't have the decency to do that.To be expected.

 

Agreed, Kevin Sinfield is a bit like Andy Farrell was in that he is an outstanding leader and player for his Club in Super League and another modern era player who due to the change in seasons was never able to test himself in the NRL during the northern hemisphere off season.

 

It could be argued that Kevin was found lacking at international level against NRL standard players but he is certainly not alone in that respect. He never gave less than 100% when wearing an England / Great Britain shirt and really that is all as a fan you can ask for. 

 

His retirement from the International stage is a dignified exit as befits a model professional on and off the field




#2982456 Empty Seats On The Telly.....

Posted by THE RED ROOSTER on 25 August 2014 - 11:59 AM

I agree with a lot of what you comment but have highlighted the NFL bit.   Again I agree they as a organization have a far better marketing & PR team but then they have the money too... However I think the NRL games at Wembley may not be a fair comparison.  That is that an awful lot of fans will be travelling from across Europe.  The NFL event is a true European wide event.   Not sure what the percentage of fans will be from outside the UK but it will be a relatively very high percentage.

 

Two points I would make in response as to why it's a closer comparison than you think.

 

Firstly, the TRL "post code test" for everyone living south and west of Birmingham and in South Wales this is the "local" BIG rugby league event that does not result in an overnight stay in much the same way that European NFL fans can see a game without going stateside. Normally events such as this and the world cup semi-final have a 33-50% southern audience claimed so given the drop in the number of neutrals this year it could be viewed as a disturbing but predictable loss of interest in the sport outside the environs of the M62.

 

Secondly, Having gone to the NFL games, Aviva Premiership Finals and a Heineken Cup Final along with International Cricket matches what you get as part of the event is a lot going on outside the ground as well as the game itself. it's a big part of being at the "event". The Minnisota Vikings v Pittsburgh Steelers game last year was the best day out at a sporting event, including a close game, that I have had in the last decade. Now I take your point about the NFL having greater funding but a lot of what they do in the car park could be replicated by the RFL for minimal cost. You could have had the cheerleaders on stage, interviews with past players, your Rugby Leagfue bouncy castle games, Food and Drink on sale at the fans village. Autograph signing sessions with Castleford, Leeds and Rugby League legends for the fans - cheap 30 minute slots with players signing a printed action card and posing for fan photos. or even have your photo taken with the Challenge Cup,/ Super League trophy. There is a very poor mans attempt at this made at the Grand Final but not at Wembley. The RFL can do this as at Trafalgar Square for the world cup. What I am posting is why the RFL does not try to enhance the fan experience at what should be a celebration of the game and much more than shuffling from Wembley Park tube to ther ground hanging around in the "wind-tunnel" effect for the doors to open then shuffling back post-game.

 

Being involved in other sports makes me want at times to smash the keyboard when it comes to hoiw Rugby League almost delights in selling itself short. The game should be looking at other sports to benchmark how they operate and to see waht they do that might work for you. Other sports do take note of what League does which is why the likes of Peter Deakin, Dave Swanton and Sally Bolton are now elsewhere as to quote from the bible Luke 4:24 "no prophet is accepted in his own country".

 

On TV rights, David Davies proposed that the RL Challenge Cup Final ceased to be a listed event in November 2009

http://web.archive.o...eases/6436.aspx

 

The Coalition has kicked this issue into touch until after the May 2015 election. This does not preclude SKY TV and the RFL putting pressure on political parties to revive the Davies proposal post election. SKY wants exclusivity, the RFL wants the money and political parties want to stay on the right side of Uncle Rupert  so 2018 is not as fanciful as some on this thread feel.

 

One Final point on TV - the BBC and SKY pay for the product- that means making the armchair viwer feel part of a live sporting event with a packed house and atmosphere. Patently judging by the comments of those of you who watched on TV this year it was less atmospheric than usual with the empty seats and therefore less of a televisual experience for you. So going back to comments made by Keith Hogg at a Broncos fan forum many moons ago when fans were herded into the one stand at the stoop. this was partly at the request of SKY TV who made a similar request to some Soccer clubs (i.e. cluster the fans on the side facing the TV cameras). The way things are going how long before the Challenge Cup final gets similar treatment with the lower tier still full but the upper tier seats sold only on the side facing the TV cameras ? 




#2982214 Empty Seats On The Telly.....

Posted by THE RED ROOSTER on 24 August 2014 - 02:55 PM

Waiting for this thread to come up, could it be to quote Maurice Lindsay "the love affair with Wembley is over". You can choose a reason for the low crowd

  • Full Soccer Programme and Cricket's T20 Finals day in opposition
  • Music Festival in Leeds so I'm told
  • August Bank holiday is the last full week of the School holidays and where Parents can get 5 days off for 4 days annual leave so that's when they go
  • General disillusion with League amongst once hardcore fans

Certainly the number of neutrals was radically reduced and I do not think that has anything to do with pricing or whose playing because I like many others I suspect do buy early because it is a Rugby League event and IMO the Rugby League event

 

I remember telling "Dally Messenger" when he was over for the St Helens v Catalans Final that the Challenge Cup Final unlike the Grand Final was a celebration of the game of Rugby League. The tradition of the people's cup final is the ONLY thing about northern hemisphere league they envy down under. However like much else under the misrule of the Wood, Barwick, Hetherington Axis it's lost its mojo

 

It was announced as August 29th 2015 and there will be a 25% discount beginning Tuesday IIRC, I actually think the discounts are the problem as with everything else League, where the game gives itself the "ratners" effect. The same posters that beef about ticket prices will merrily pay Soccer Premiership prices (and whisper it Aviva Premiership prices) , Cheerfully sink many pints in the bar beforehand but for League wail that prices are too high. It's a legacy of the world cup, not that I blame Sally Bolton - she had a brief and executed it - but the legacy was then those who like me paid discounted prices still felt robbed when folk come up to you at the Headingly bus stop and tel you they paid only a Fiver to get in. As I have found out on e-bay the more you discount the less value people place on the item wheras if you raise the price then because its more expensive people value it more. I am not suggesting charging the ridiculous prices seen in other sport but I do advocate charging the market rate for the product which in this case is Rugby League.

 

In league you get discount, after discount, after discount. What that encourages is punters to put off buying tickets and the longer people put off buying tickets in the hope of a further discount the more it becomes likely that they will find something else to do on the day. I am going to be at the three NFL games at Wembley and I can tell you this, they will sell out, people will pack the full whack, and pre-game it will be an "event". If the NFL can sell out three events for a imported sport why cannot the RFL do this for the one event?

 

We need to restore the games heritage and make the Challenge Cup final the event for all Rugby League fans, it always was up until recently.




#2979565 What can we do to increase attendances?

Posted by THE RED ROOSTER on 18 August 2014 - 02:54 PM

A number of factors apply here, chiefly the failure to expand which has contracted both the playing base and the supporter base.

 

Then you have clubs that voluntarily opt for Friday Night League and in turn become truly a local game for local people, League has difficulty with anyone outside the heartlands having an interest in the game, Notably Gary Hetherington's incredulity at anyone from Plymouth ordering from the Rhinos shop or the Castleford CEO of the time back in the day when Q&A's were something on this board responding to a question from myself about supporters coming from Goole. He was asking me if I knew anyone who wanted to come... Do people seriously think that Manchester United and City get all their fans from Manchester or that either club would opt for Friday Night home games? So why then do Superleague clubs - most of whom are off the beaten path so to speak - deliberately opt to geographically restrict attendees

 

Then as Rugby League contracts voluntarily you get the tyranny of proximity, where soon the game will have reverted to too many clubs chasing the same fanbase with a small geographical area and of course this affects crowds.

 

You can learn from Soccer and Cricket that less is more and rather than sacrifice the international game on the altar of the 30 game 8/8/8. have a proper planned season in which every game is an event on which on the majority of occasions you will see a first grade side put out rather than the squad rotation that will be commonplace next season.

 

The quality of the league has gone down, granted I may be jaundiced by watching the worst team ever to have played a season of superleague yet when I am watching other league games there is no comaprison between the quality of league now and that of the league in the midnoughties. Part of this lies in the lack of realisation that the balance of purchasing powe between the NRL and Super League has permanently changed for the forseeable future with the most popular winter code in the Eastern states commanding its market value in revenue as opposed to a soon to be M62 sport with Southern France appendage, now regarded as a Tier 2 sport by Sport England getting the market value a geographically restricted Tier 2 sport gets.

The answer to the league's lack of star quality has been provided by the Good Doctor in that you have to spend and spend big to attract NRL veterans to play in a vastly inferior league. This of couse opposed by those clubs who already have a lock on the juniors in their local area - Junior development is their mantra - carefully omitting the fact that if you are without a successful Junior structure the only way to build one is through having a successful First Grade side that attracts interest to the club and enables the buliding of a junior development structure.

 

Self-Interest rules within the game, The game never understands that clubs that are outside the heartlands do need exemptions when it comes to playing and development. To argue that its inherently unfair and not a level playing field for my small town club is to say the non-heartland club should play with one hand tied behind its back and as we have seen that does not work. This I might add is not an arguement for central funding but to realise that clubs outside the "glamour" clubs of Super League which includes the likes of Salford and Huddersfield do need to splash the cash to attract the king of quality player that not only benefit the club going forward but also benefits the league as a whole or are there posters on here who think if Salford signed Jonathan Thurston they would be less likely to attend when the Reds come to town ?

 

The alternative, carry on the way the game is going and you will achieve John Kear's prophesy of no professional Rugby League in a faster timescale than his 50 years.

 

My point, punters in whatever sport pay to see the best playing against the best in a meaningiful event. They pay to see stars, players that truly can do exceptional things. They do not pay to see - One sided clobberings, Journeymen players who cannot command a place in the NRL, Games featuring reserve graders on rotation against the lesser clubs, or international fixtures where the last men standing after an exhaustive 30 game season face humiliation from fitter and more skilful players from a superior league.

 

On the subject of Strippers, Dave Hadfield mentioned the strange goings on at Rickys Bar in Leeds Road, Huddersfield - which is always well populated on International matchdays -seeing this review I now see why

http://www.sugarvine...taurantid=42977

 

I thought Ricky's bar was outstanding and i am very proud to say that th service was very good quality I would recommend this to anyone which loves strippers and that kind of stuff. Ricky is a great person to get along with.. so try it out 311 Leeds road Huddersfield opposite the Galapine stadium

 

 

 




#2979500 17/08/14 - London Broncos v Leeds Rhinos KO 3pm

Posted by THE RED ROOSTER on 18 August 2014 - 12:55 PM

As a critic of Joe Grima got to hand to him that his Broncos side beat a Leeds team containing several first grade players. and from being some way behind.

That said the first appearance of The London Phantom this season was probably more significant than others realise. It would not have altered trhe course of the season or the clubs eventual fate but in close game's at Barnet FC and In Manchester against Catalan and away at Wakefield. Keiran's Dixon's cutting edge could have been the difference. As always with the Broncos it's what might have been....

I could list the negatives here but for this thread I rejoice in the fact that London Broncos will not undergo a winless season (Halifax as we know did get nil points in 2003 but had two points deducted for a game Tony Anderson's side won away against......London Broncos

Can they win against Catalans and Salford away and Bradford at home, nothings impossible and with confidence returning after this win it looks more likely than it did at 2.59pm yesterday afternoon. 




#2958652 Dr K rips into Mcmanus

Posted by THE RED ROOSTER on 13 July 2014 - 08:35 PM

Your worst post to date IMHO good sir.

 

Northern Soul would probably disagree.... ;)

 

Exciting professional northern hemisphere RL is still possible when the top clubs clash so put all the resources into that. Ten clubs strategically placed with all the money centrally controlled. That's possible.

 

 

Now that is wishful thinking and does resemble some of start-up rivals to the NFL in the states like the UFL and New USFL which have either collapsed or failed to start up. This is the UK we have a private ownership model for better or worse.

 

Equally for better or worse we will end up with about 8 Top clubs who can afford it and the rest who cannot and that's down to the fact that clubs compete in a small geographical area. With League it's not the tyranny of distance its the tyranny of proximity to paraphrase Geoffrey Blainey.and I am sure you would agree that after 100 plus years of organic growth there are clubs who will never be viable as major clubs unless their nearest and dearest big rivals become financially stricken haemorraging fans, players in addition to capital as evidenced by the glee in which Bradford have been savaged on messageboards. 

 

But why should the game constantly seek to level down to the lowest common denominator ?

 

Now the finacially viable Top 8 may decide after a few 8/8/8 seasons that expansion is desirable and who knows by 2017/18 they may have a media or investment partner who could financially support this to suit their agenda in London, Cardiff, Toulouse, Edinburgh etc. But this would not be done through a centrally fuinded league. With the financial backers in place they could take a leaf out of the Canadian Football League's book with the Ottawa Red Blacks and have an expansion draft which allowed 3 players to be drafted by the Ottawa club from each of the other 8 participating CFL teams to form a competitive squad. Now this could be used as a template for future expansion in the UK but would of course depend upon self-interest.

 

In essence there would have to be leadership from within the game itself to do this, in particular to face down vested interests elsewhere with the game but in doing so the game would have gone back to the super league vision. There are ways to expand the game through events such as on the road games etc to create brand awareness which I have posted on this board but this all takes political will and vision on the part of the game's administrators and owners for as things stand the game will have gone twenty years backwards to 1995 in 2015

 

You post of realism and sadly all this is of course about as likely as the lovely Myleene Klass announcing I am her new and so far secret beau tomorrow.... :(  :(

 

 

Is taking the good doctors prescription possible when no SL chairmen apart from the good doctor are up for it? You yourself say it'll cost them plenty and the "marquee men" would have to be prepared to join (in your own words) an inferior league. Would they?

 

 

People come to see the big show, Why do fans pack out the Kia Oval for T20 - To See Kevin Pietersen, If I lived in Yorkshire Aaron Finch would be the drawcard in Lancashire Andrew Flintoff. It's the same in all sports, Billy Slater or SBW would be a drawcard today. Going back 10 years you could see stars like Jamie Lyon and Adrian Lam grace the Super League are you serious in stating that today's pale carbon version Super League has that kind of quality. Did Andrew Johns draw a crowd to Warrington during his brief stay ?

 

All I can say is the likes of Jim Dymock on one leg in his last season were and are vastly superior to the journeymen playing today across the league but signing stars, with the right attitude, at the end of their career will not only upgrade the quality of the league and increase attendances but wll allow juniors and reserve graders the chance to learn from better players and adopt the better habits and skill sets that got those players to the top.Of course they will not come cheap but they will come forthe right price.

 

As for other clubs let's ignore the vested interest of clubs who have a monopoly on juniors and would be threatened by an arriviste Salford on the block. The fact is Salford is strategically important, the contraction of the game makes it imperative to consolidate in a major city particularily in the club closest to media city. The only way Salford are going to get the kind of numbers through the turnsiles to make the club both economically viable and attractive to local juniors is for the Doctor to flash the cash and create the Quality Street Gang II at Barton 

 

I suspect some of his opponents would love the doctor to leave the game and Salford to go out of business. He has a plan to put Salford at the forefront of progress in Rugby League. Do his opponents have an credible alternative ?

 

 

Your a realist - at least I thought you were, don't join the wishful thinkers ol' Red.....

 

 

I am a realist but like many who are involved in other sports and not living in the Rugby League bubble am frustrated and angered at the games death wish. As I have posted before the split in rugby league is between those who can look in from outside and have experience of better sporting business models and can see what is wrong with the game and those who live in the black and white world of the 1960/70's who appear on this board

 

Time to swallow the doctor's prescription Parky..




#2958598 13/07/14 - Warrington Wolves v London Broncos KO 3pm

Posted by THE RED ROOSTER on 13 July 2014 - 07:06 PM

A way worse scoreline thanI expected, OK no-one expected Joe Grima to make a silk purse out of the proverbial sows ear, but his team - which now been together long enough - should be able to execute the basics. When I have seen the Broncos live, post rea, they appear worse week on week and this includes the "fine young talent" who will, as if by magic, restore the club back through the 8/8/8 next year.

 

I hate to intrude on some posters herbal haze but if you are any good you will not be at London next year and I predict the main question next season will be if the Broncos, if they exist, can prepare a starting XIII for the local derby against London Skolars in 2016's Championship 1   

 

What's all the cappucino stuff about?

 

It's a London thing aimed at those who respond to criticism of the club on and off the field on messageboards by claiming amongst other things that the cost of a capucchino is cheaper at The Hive than The Stoop so obviously they have a club and so all is well....

 

About what most people were expecting, I'd imagine. Although the club appear to be getting  a decent squad and coaching staff together for next season in the Championship, a lot's going to depend on where the cash is coming from. Not a word from David Hughes (who isn't exactly flavour of the month with some supporters, including me, anyway) or any other potential investor.

 

The funding for the proposed squad for next season is coming out of the anticipated parachute payment for finishing last in this years Super League . This enables the former video analyst at St George Joe Grima, to sign NRL players  Wentworthville, NSW Cup & Redcliffe Dolphins, Queensland cup journeymen along with a few Under 19's not scouted by Northern Super League clubs. It would surprise me if this is anything other than a Poundstretcher squad.

 

AK will make a decision if the numbers add up as to whether the Broncos get a one year extension at the Hive. As I have posted before if Barnet FC cannot make money on average 600 gates with the terraces shut Its' goodbye. Although IMO economically with the gates London are likely to get, if they exist, New River would be the better option. Granted it's not a Super League standard ground but then organic growth is not about ambition or being anything other than being a pin on a map.

 

Hughes is likely to pull out as I suspect he is miffed at being held to account by supporters for his own errors, Yes he has poured millions into the club but then again so have other supporters who are less finacially minted than he. It's all relative when it comes to individual spending power and IMO for sure, investors become chairman of sporting clubs for ego reasons but need to be aware that just like players, coaches and club employees they are equally transient and hold an institution in trust for future generations. David Hughes epitaph will be there was a club before his stewardship but not one after.

 

No new investor is interested in committing the sums of money needed to revive Rugby League in the South with the club now in a second rate, second tier competition with part-time clubs. Not that London are alone in this as some traditional clubs already appear to be in boardroom meltdown once despite all the rhetoric, they are confronted with the smack of financial reality in attempting to compete with better funded Super League clubs and just how far their dream can become a nightmare. 

 

It's a tawdry way to end down south :angry:




#2956079 More good news coming from the Broncos

Posted by THE RED ROOSTER on 07 July 2014 - 06:15 PM

1. Pre-SL entry they averaged 814, oddly Keighley were the big away following 1302 for that one! Don't expect that next year.

 

Second/third tier crowds are well down though since those days, maybe use Skolars (473) and Hemels (299) crowds as a guide.

 

 

 

As a guide the Dewsbury Cup game in 2012 when the core support was bigger and the admission prices £ 5 less drew 652 spectators, I think thats' a rough guide to the sub-1,000 attendances you can expect next year..

 

Skolars attendances are inflated by Friday Night Lights around 350 is nore normal for them.

 

If AK does not punt them from the Hive first, Logic dictates that the Broncos (if they remain in existence) move in wuth the Skolars to share the 4G pitch and to maximise the economies of scale in administration and junior development. Whether this is a joint venture between two partner clubs playing in different divisions or a full blown merger will be a conversation the followers of both clubs will need to have in the off season.

 

Of course, I talk here about logic, this is Rugby League and there are some big ego's involved so the London Nomads may well end up pitching tent elsewhere....

 

 

If Barnet had been 0-19 what sort of crowds would they be getting at the moment? Yes, there is a good away following but the reason around 1-2,000 have disappeared is because they are disillusioned and have little hope for this season. To be fair, those fans have been watching pathetic showings for the last 5 years. London's win-loss ratio for the last 4 seasons must be sitting at under 20%.

 

If they start next season brightly and followers can see progress and a winning culture then you have a better chance of teasing a few fans back.

 

Most people on here know I'm not a fan of the new system - but if it could help anyone next season then it must be London. A good part one and get in the top 4 and they will get some familiar names to play in the 3x8 split.

 

I do not want to use "the postcode test" on here but unlike the M62 fans down here come from and return to the sports they grew up with and played at school. Rugby League is not "in your face" down here and Championship Rugby League has no media profile at all.

 

What you will have is a few hundred mainly northern exiles rattling round a stadium congratulating themselves on the cheapness of a plastic cup of capucchino at the bar, the fact the tannoy has been turned down so they can have a conversation to the person next to them and appreciation of a "brave" 74-2 defeat against Hunslet. If you think I am being sarcastic these sentiments have been expressed by London "fans" on messageboards and at a fan forum.

 

Conversly, we don't expect a bi Broncos following at Cougar Park.

 

We have a loyal away crew but indeed you should not be expecting any bi-Broncos turning up at Cougar Park. That would indeed cause quite a stir in West Yorkshire.....




#2955195 05/07/14 - London Broncos v Wigan Warriors KO 3pm

Posted by THE RED ROOSTER on 05 July 2014 - 06:55 PM

Another game in which Wigan never got out of second gear. After a 15 minute spell in which Wigan started by kicking the ball out on the full, knocking on within 10 metres and firing a forward pass, before they cottoned on to attaching Illness Macani who had a shocker and whose confidence must be completely shattered after this. Of the first seven Wigan Tries six were on Macani's right flank and the other one under the sticks saw illness fail in a flapping tackle attempt. Charnley opened the scoring by brushing Farrar aside and from the first score onwards there vwas only one team in it. The left side of the Bronco defence coped well until the last 10 minutes when the bfinal two Wigan tries came down that flank. 

 

London Broncos have a total inability to play a structured game unable to string a set of passes together without firing it forwsrd, knocking on or into touch and that is down to bad coaching from Joe Grima. It's not hard to get even championship players to the basics but this appears to be beyond Aussie Joe. London try coming as usual from some unstructured play with a Wigan forward losing the bal in contact for Thomas Mimms to gather up ands scoot under the posts to give the half-time scoreline a flattering 6-22 look.

 

To be fair to Wigan and all other Super League clubs, it is very hard to gauge your performance after playing the Broncos because the lack of intensity in the contest begins to affect both sides. Of the 2,013 attendances 1,200 were Wiganers and 100 kids on freebies

 

London Broncos should noty have been allowed to compete in Super League 2014, I will surmise the reason for the clubs inclusion being to acquire the £ 900,000 parachute payment. It would appear Mr Hughes latest wheeze is to prepare for life in the Campionship and to this extent, I will again surmise based on what I can piece together of Tony Rea's departure it was on the basis that Sniffer felt with a few additions the club might have had a fair go at avoiding the drop. Hughes who has not spent on any player since the satart of the season thougt otherwise and so we plod onwards to oblivion. as with the club facing a record 27 match winless season its hard to think of many coming back next year.If these is a next year of course.

 

A penny for Ian Lenagan's thoughts, I have never begrudged IFL going to Wigan. He is a Wiganer and was a Wigan fan when he took over London when the opportunity came to take over Wigan he took it. You only get one go on this planet so "live the dream" I say.

 

But Ian encasulates the real divide in this sport between those of us who have experience in and come from other sports and believe strongly in getting NEW fan rather than OLD fan. Wheras those who profess to "love the championship" like Sol and the other organic growthers on here are those who would rather it remained MY game, MY small club where I can buy the players a cappuchino post match, where everyone at MY club knows each other

 

Truly if the early christians had belived in organic growth Christanity would have remnined a small cult in Judea to this day but they did not they were evangelical in their belief and spread the word whilst no doubt being accused of "rushied expansion" into Rome and elsewhere.

 

Sadfly for all true believers, currently contractionists hold sway within the game, one day though long after the Broncos self-infliucted demise, the more enlightened will take charge and using one the games current sponsors slogans, recognise that either you go big or go hungry. Until then get ready for a few seasons of Rugby League suffering sporting anorexia.

 

PS - Chronicler - It is easy to wind me up because like so many ex-players and staff who worked for the Broncos notr to mention long suffering fans of of over 19 seasons like myself I AM VERY ANGRY ABOUT WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO THIS CLUB AND THE GAME IN GENERAL :angry: 




#2953121 28/06/14 - London Broncos v Widnes Vikings KO 3pm

Posted by THE RED ROOSTER on 01 July 2014 - 06:29 PM

Let's deal with the personal insults first..

 

Perhaps he is - posting under another name.

 

Unlike your natural habitat of RLFans, The Webmaster on here probably does not tolerate the same poster using different usernames - The IP address being a big giveaway. Incidentally as he lives in New Zealand and I the UK geography was obviously not your strong suit at school... 

 

Agreed - he sounds more like Gutterfax by the day

 

And you sound like South Wales Crusader or the self proclaimed "voice of the fans". You SWC and Chronicler have rightly earned the praise of Sol - the arch contractionist - as you all espouse the vision of a small semi-pro London club playing in front of 300-400 as being the level the gasme should aspire to in the south.

 

How about you get your facts right ?

 

You enjoyed your exclusive gathering, when I was in the (Barnet) Club shop, trying to find the price of a polo shirt,  the girl behind the counter was flummoxed by a punter asking where the barbecue was going to be. For sure there were announcements during the game, but I can see where The Daddy got his info from.

 

The barbeque was very nice. As I understand it, it was open to all but members got it free, fair enough. From what I could make out the atmosphere was really good in the bar, helped by some celebratory Widnesians.  

 

As for staff members, goodness know to who you refer as Joey, Danny W, Jason, Steve, Darren and the players were all there along with u19s (who beat Widnes). Tony K was working on the bar !! There was a smile on everyone's face. No doubt the defeat had been hard to take, and I am sure they will continue to strive for that illusive win, but everyone knows what's down the track and that is a good stab at the Championship.

 

And in one sentence you encapsulate all that is wrong with London Broncos, The club had lost again, as it has done for 5 years, a winnable game with the opposition hardly getting out of second gear. Personally I wasted £ 20 and two hours of my life I will not get back, again. Sitting there 10 mins into the second half, London miles behind, looking at my watch and wanting the game to end there and then. Show me a good loser and you will have before you someone who will remain a loser for the rest of their life.

 

Has the London Broncos dulled my appetite for Rugby League, for sure, as I am sure it has for many others. The move to Barnet has decimated the core support and next year crowds wil be between 400-800. Now your generous host behind the bar, who whilst always glad to take your money, is at the end of the day not a Rugby League fan like David Hughes (and whatever else is said about him, and I for one have said plenty, he IS a RL fan) so you will not see AK dipping into his pockets. If with the parachute payment Barnet can run at a profit with the Broncos as tenant you will get a one year stay of execution. If not its Sayonara as the Japanese put it.

 

AK and me know that you need spectators and an income stream to run a professonal sports club, it's a pity some of you organic growthers simply either don't get it or refuse to live in the real world.




#2948773 Mason Caton-Brown.........Gone!

Posted by THE RED ROOSTER on 23 June 2014 - 07:06 PM

I said established SL players would like Krasniqi, MCB, Dixon, Mcmeeken etc. But I said 15/16 year olds won't uproot to the North to play RL, when they can play RU closer to home. 

 

And your correct to say so.

 

Vea and McMeeken to Saints, Cook and Scott Moore to Castleford, Dixon to AN OTHER club with Caton-Brown having signed immediately for Salford. (for a fee I hope) but no announcement from the Broncos at the time of Typing. Will the last one at The Hive please turn the lights out...

 

I do hope that someone saved Mason's shirt for his sponsors "The Chelsea Headhunters Poker Club" otherwise they might get a bit upset.....




#2946039 After the London Broncos?

Posted by THE RED ROOSTER on 17 June 2014 - 06:22 PM

Another sterile thread with a re-stating of previously held positions

 

Not sure I understand the original point of the post!! Was it suggesting that London RL fans should somehow be compensated because of Broncos relegation??. I'll have what medication there on too please.

 

The point is one I made in another thread a few weeks ago, Once London has gone there will be no top flight rugby league south of Wakefield. Not even an on the road game between two Northern Super League Clubs.

 

If the contractionists on this thread seriously believe that interest in any sport is maintained through amateur clubs with attendances of 250-300 then you are advocating not organic growth but organic decay and need to up the dosage of their medication.

 

Without a doubt. It was on terrestrial TV.

 

Bring back Black and White TV as well while your at it.. Like the dinosaurs contractionists refuse to evolve...

 

 

 

It was put to me earlier this year that there are a few investors in London who'd be interested in Super League in London but they view the Broncos as not only a failed enterprise but, more importantly, a damaged brand.  Kleanthous clearly isn't interested in taking over the Broncos, Hughes has proved a terrible custodian.  If they reformed along similar lines to the Crusaders and took a page out of the Crusaders book by choosing a more local name, I'd welcome it.  The problem, as has always been, is the question of where they'd play.

 

And I noticed the Chairman of Bradford Bulls is a Londoner, When they get round to writing the book on the demise of the London Broncos then perhaps there will be an explanation as to why businessmen in the South are reluctant to get involved with the London club.

 

 

Brand is completely tarnished. Unfortunately it probaly does need a rebrand or perhaps just slipping out of people's consciousness for a while. Once the Broncos drop down a division you could pretty much do what you want in moving them or rebranding the organisation in its entirity. The national press won't give two flying figs about it and nor will majority of individuals. Then if they do manage to regroup and get back into the top 12 they can sell themselves as a new team and just maybe some will have forgotten how appalling we were for a while. Problem is many will have forgotten the sport completely.

 

As for location thats a whole thread on its own.

 

Yes well most of us who do not come from a Rugby League background already have returned to their traditional sports. Personally my active involvement in Rugby League after 19 years will be coming to an end after the grand final. Not that I will not watch the game on TV  or when I am back down under next year for The Cricket World Cup but the I am disillusioned with the direction the game has taken. I can accept the end of the Broncos as a self inflicted wound but the whole strategic direction of the game and its contraction is like watching a slow motion car crash.

 

The problem will be once the game has come to its senses and a few traditional clubs have fallen into organic decay. The money will no longer be in the sport and there will not be a Broadcast partner willing to find and advertise the games expansion as in 1996, for they will realise that other sports with a national and international profile will have filled the gap of providing a non-soccer alternative family sport outside of the M62.and that will be where the advertising revenue will lie.

 

So enjoy your West Yorkshire derbys on a wet Tuesday night on Sky Sports 4 and your expanded World Club Challenge trial games in which you can beat NRL teams out of season playing their first trial game and truly claim "we are third in the world".But don't start banging the keyboards when even traditionally league friendly media outlets like The Independent accuse the game of living a lie..




#2943628 Football world cup and SL game scheduling

Posted by THE RED ROOSTER on 12 June 2014 - 06:42 PM

Surely soccer fans watch soccer and Rugby League fans watch Rugby League so if anybody wants to watch a soccer match between two countries in which the England soccer team does not feature then they are by definition a soccer fan and not a Rugby League fan...




#2937520 Rugby league in London, what next?

Posted by THE RED ROOSTER on 01 June 2014 - 07:07 AM

I don't really know where to begin with this. So much wrongness in one post.

 

Let's start from the glaring obvious. We're back to Parky's magic wand - start by investment millions over several years - nice idea but where is the money. Oops hadn't thought about it - surely the RFL has this kind of money? Guess again.

 

So the argument boils down to what to do until the money comes along. I say investment in grass roots development and your answer is "We're all doomed, what's the point?". Bleating on about contractionism and pit villages seems to miss the point - "Where is the money to fund this?". There is just no answer.

 

American football is really not so visionary. "On the road" games are hardly something that rugby league is too blinkered to try. We tried them, they didn't work. I don't expect that for all their millions, the new NFL franchise will be a success.

 

Top-down development with American football has resulted in British players being offered trials and being rejected. That must have the RFL trembling in fear.  Ditto people wanting to play basketball and ending up American footballers. Clear proof that it was the prospect of an NFL team that made them want to try an American sport and get as far as a trial.

 

As for the Hetheringtons, I don't recall being in favour of their ownership of two SL clubs.

 

Ever the politician Solly avoiding the points I am making to stick with your narrative.

 

Firstly, Where have I said London should be centrally funded. I accept it's a private investor model in this country. Thev question that should be asked is why has the governing body not sought out further potential backers. As Maurice Lindsay said "after all these years we are still down to one man". Even IFL:'s involvement with London was brokered through Mike Stephenson not the RFL*. Is that not an admission of failure for any Sports Governing body ?

* A Pastel Revolution -Paul Fletcher & Phillp Gordos Page 74

 

Which brings me to the other point about American Football because it too is an alien sport down here, but is also an example of a sport which shows you can make a comeback if you have the desire and commitment to do so. League has never shown this as other posters on this thread also point out. Where is the mission statement from the RFL about the long term expansion of the sport ?

 

I think everyone agrees that there is litle money in the sport so tell me exactly how by shrinking the game's footprint you expand revenues or attract more national blue-chip sponsors to the sport ?. Perhaps you are content to be on Sky Sports 3/4. A filler sport hidden away on Thursdays and Tuesday's (Championship next year). Where the money from the new very long term TV deal you will find has already been forwarded to the clubs who have used it on paying existing debts and speculating on playing success through new signings as ever.

 

Again you deliberately evade the point about how a top down sport actually encourages grassroots development going off with your compadre Keighley about American Football playing strength as if it was Hemel Stags junior grade. The point is in my first sentence, People respond to top level sport. Its the big league that creates interest. Sports such as Cricket with it's one day Internationals and Union with the Barbarians game struggle to sell tickets once fans become aware that full strength sides will not be competing. People pay their money to see and are inspired by the best playing the best. A spectacle you can only see next year within the M62 corridor. The best will play the best down here but in other sports.which is where the interest will be in future

 

There was a recent Ian Ramsdale tweet about a Skolars session for youngsters run in conjunction with a North London Union club. Rammo claimed this was good grass roots development but unforunately the picture he uploaded was of a young lad doing "The Ash Spash" in Saracens kit at this event. This is all that your "organic growth" will achieve in the future. 

 

London Broncos are now finished as a club with a well supported club like Hull FC drawing a crowd at Canons Park barely over 1,000. As with Spicer, I will be watching up to the end of this year then it's it for me full stop. Many expansionists were pounding the keyboard over my gloomy, but now correct prognosis about the Hive move. The truth is the club died in September 2013. They should not have started this season and this has done more damage than good to the sport in the south providing the final nail in the coffin as perhaps those in the RFL who allowed the club to compete this year knowing it was underfunded and with an uncompetitive playing staff al;ways intended.

 

So you have what you and certain LPL journalists always really wanted an M62 sport with lip service paid to expanding the game "in the right way"  through "organic growth" with those championship clubs who despite having over 100 years of "organic growth" in the heartlands with its incumbent advantages who have "so much to offer" encouraged to spend what they do not have to chase the dream which can only become reality if they supplant their bigger neighbours. While Championship 2 - where all this "organic growth" is supposedly taking place - gets little or nothing from the new deal. Rugby League a small sport turning ever inwards

 

Welcome to the shrunken world of Rugby League with its diminishing returns




#2932280 Rugby league in London, what next?

Posted by THE RED ROOSTER on 19 May 2014 - 08:34 PM

Unless you have a substantial amount of money it would be pointless for London to continue. One thing about Sports is that to be successful you need not just to have the right people on the field but the right people off it as well.and its bnot just a team that would need funding but an infrastructure to be built  London will lose all players of note from their squad unless for promotion to be realistic Championship clubs operate to the same salary cap as their Super League opponents.This will not happen, though having Bradford as the fallen giant and "elephant in the room" may cause some revision upwards.

 

The fact is the 8/8/8 will permanently fix the composition of the upper levels of the league unless a Super League club falls into financial trouble but will allow traditional clubs with average attendances last year of 2,403,1,707, 1,556 and 803 can achive their dream which despite the pounding of keyboards, really is to be able to play a series of hastily arranged local derbies at the back end of the season for the gate money. Reality and economics dictate that going any further is a bridge too far, as the former Halifax Chief Executive now titular head of the RLIF knows

 

Organic growth below this will be the organic stagnation a club like London Skolars epitomises, Ironically one sport that is a good example of Top down expansion is the NFL Wembley series which will probably result in a London franchise by the end of the decade, as Steve Mascord has pointed out no watering of the grass roots here but there is an increase in participation in another alien sport in the south directly attributable to the success of the series. The series is not without opposition stateside but the commitment of the League and its consitituent clubs to spread the brand and develop new markets has paid off to the extent as one RL fans poster put it that the NFL is already bigger than Rugby League in the south and likely to remain so.

 

I am afraid the game is up south of Wakefield and will result in a future of clubs with average attendance of around 342 watched by bitter Northern exiles ranting at the world around them. Truly "pins on the map" that fool no-one. Many on this board will be secretly jubilant at this however as league's new dark age takes hold and economic reality bites into a game puffing itself up on the "success" of reasonable attendances fuelled by cheap and discounted tickets and Pay TV viewing figures without actually understanding what drives commercial Pay TV networks. Sooner or later the number of casualties amongst "traditional" clubs, in particular those relegated to Championship 1 that the RFL simply cannot bail out will cause a re-think

 

The enlightened ones will face a problem, by 2016 "Rugby" will be Rugby Union outside the M62 corridor and perhaps encroaching inside, Other sports will also not have gone away but be stronger and down here much stronger. In addition the Pay TV Broadcaster who will cough up no more cash for a filler sport having bounced the sport into a long term deal. They may wish to expand the game of Rugby League but there will be neither room nor demand elsewhere as the "alternative" sport market will have been claimed by other less parochial sports. One thing we all agree on is that the field of dreams approach does not work for any sport.

 

London's problems are basically their own making but there never has been an ideological commitment save lip service towards expansion of the sport from the governing body post-Lewis and from a substantial section of Players, Coaches, Chairmen and RL Journalists all of who in their own small way support the game they profess to love in the same way a rope supports a hanging man.

 

 The legacy of the Nigel Wood era to the game of Rugby League is best summed up by this extract from Robert Browning's 1845 poem The Lost Leader

 

We shall march prospering,—not thro’ his presence;

  Songs may inspirit us,—not from his lyre;
Deeds will be done,—while he boasts his quiescence,
  Still bidding crouch whom the rest bade aspire:
Blot out his name, then, record one lost soul more,
  One task more declined, one more footpath untrod,
One more devils’-triumph[ and sorrow for angels,
  One wrong more to man, one more insult to God!
Life’s night begins: let him never come back to us!
  There would be doubt, hesitation, and pain,
Forced praise on our part—the glimmer of twilight,
  Never glad confident morning again!