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The Parksider

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  1. Tommy, you keep raising criteria for NA clubs admittance to the game here that do not exist, The criteria are expand the pro player pool then we can expand SL, and bring new NA TV deals then we can pay the wages. Mate - just stick to the criteria all are agreed on. Look we've had three years of this total rubbish often spouted with insults. The Perez TWP plan was for 5-6 north american clubs coming into Superleague because as he said that was the North American content needed to capture a big NA TV deal. That meant as it stands now Leeds, Wigan, London, Fartown, HKR, and Salford going into the Championship. This simply isn't tenable so obviously we need more quality players to accommodate NA clubs so they just have to accept this. AND THE NA CLUBS DO ACCEPT IT. SO grow up. It's simply NOT my point. Ever since Lenegan asked Toulouse to get a TV deal the line has been that SKY sell dishes here and the preferred content is therefore clubs here. Replace English clubs with NA clubs who merely sign up the relegated clubs players and put them in American shirts is bound to cause resentment and affect the deal. You need to get out of the tiny bubble that is this site and threads like this and go ask Castleford fans how they would feel if Cas went down, TWP went up and the Cas squad signed for TWP. Again the North Americans ACCEPT THIS and have done ever since Perez's first interview in 2016 when he said he'd get a TV deal. TWP are not a successful organisation as they didn't produce one TV deal to share here or one NA SL level player and lose massive amounts of money. Yet another reality denying post that even Mr. Perez disagrees with as he himself set the criteria for success as more players from NA and a TV deal from NA. Hull/HKR remain massively more important to SL than TWP do now. How can we debate anything when such inventions are introduced. John, who cares if you have "no issue" mate not me not 100K RL fans here or any chairmen here. Mr. Perez is now himself clear he has to expand the quality pro player pool with NA players and has committed to do so. Fans and Chairmen here have every issue the current Player pool is not transferred to North America. It will just kills things here and WE care about that. A couple of years back I said exactly this. Let the North Americans play several seasons in the Championship where they can work at developing players and promoting the game. I said this thinking the Championship clubs would say "No way" but they have said yes, so off we go. Let's have the NA derbies TWP.v.NY, Ottawa.v.TWP and NY.v.Ottawa, lets see grid iron and RU players trialled incessantly. Lets see some of the NA players TWP did have coming back into these teams. Lets have the USARL on board as a development league. But lets now cut the nonsense of insulting clubs and fans here, and all the Phoney Baloney these North American clubs will save Rugby League here by just been accepted straight into Superleague. Jeez, this site has what 40-50 people discussing this issue with 40 for instant admission to SL for NA clubs as it's a "No brainer", and 10 against as it's "Destructive". Lets not forget 100,000 English fans of SL English clubs with their English TV deal - they deserve that this "Opportunity" for the future is tested at the planning stage, and if it goes through trialled at Championship level, and if the player base in NA rises and a NATV deal is found put the best NA club in SL and build onwards from that.
  2. I’ll guess you were in nappies when the old First Division attracted average attendances of just over 5,000, only one runaway club could win anything and TV deals were minimal. The game was modernised under Lyndsay and Superleague, academies were set up to develop pro-players, attendances nearly doubled and the TV contracts grew with the current one being the biggest ever. Your just not one for the facts are you? You are one for fantasy though. Perez has you wrapped around his little finger young man. And do not forget Mr. Lenegan who was going to start a World league and include Perth appointing Scotchy as the league CEO.. In all three cases I believe they all were talking promotional utter phoney baloney, but I don’t need Pearson or Lenegan to tell me Perez failed to secure a TV deal to share or develop any decent players. Pearson and Lenegan’s clubs “I believe” do both. I don’t make this point at all, the SL bosses make it. Very many SKY subscribers are English and fans of English clubs and less English clubs on TV means less SKY subscribers and it is as simple as that. As for your second point I don’t think many Castleford supporters will renew SKY if it was them relegated to make way for “Castleford players in TWP shirts”. Do you really not get it that English fans don’t want to see the game gradually transferred to America at the expense of their clubs.. Oh come on good sir, they pay full cap to players on crowds that paying wise may be well below the 8,000 they allege, they then pay for all the travel and accommodation for the visiting clubs and same for themselves the other way. They don’t get income from SKY that clubs here get enabling them to play professionally so it really is a massive loss making venture. What else is likely not true? The world is round?? Why do you think Perez and Wilby keep talking about these massive alleged and un-named consortiums of mega rich Americans waiting to back RL? Maybe it's because everyone but you knows it takes a fortune to make an RL club profitable in places they don't play or care about RL and are thousands of miles away from where they do.....
  3. Of course most on here have no idea as they don't read anything up. The RL press ran plenty of analysis on Monday and make no mistake this isn't about expanding the game in terms of players. TWP do not bother doing this. Perez is back to boasting that Ottawa is full of potential RL players "Within half a generation we should have some decent athletes" is about all he said on this, and all NY boasted was that North America was a "Massive market for athletes" and they would hold trials looking for potential top RL players. All this rubbish we have heard before. It's easy to follow your own fantasy than the more informed RL press who concluded, and make no mistake here, that the reason the Championship clubs voted for this was in the desperate hope that these NA clubs would deliver TV deals. The Championship's cut of the current SKY deal was somewhere around £20,000,000 plus and as we all SHOULD know Superleague will not be giving them a penny from the next deal. So when people stand up in front of them from North America and tell them of all the North America TV deals that are available in time as long as you let the North Americans play in the leagues here, they have nowhere to go but vote for it. Conversely Superleague are getting an English SKY deal but a reduced one so the clubs will neither give the Championship a penny nor contemplate "too many overseas clubs in SL" IF ANY (and if they do they say they will be French) and that is just common sense because the subscribers here want to watch their own clubs not Leigh in TWP shirts or Leeds in Ottawa shirts, and don't mind the French because they are real and have history. There's something tragic about Championship clubs living through several seasons of TWP and seeing themselves just how no TV deal to share here came from there and no players were developed yet they still end up having to vote for the same old "jam tommorrow" baloney promised by Perez in 2016 and promised a second time. If you read what he said he boasted his financial backers were so rich they could fund Ottawa 15 times over, but declined to say who they were!!. Equally New York is full of rich investors but they could not possibly say who they were either!!!. Perez handed Wilby his script and said "read that". The championship clubs if people can remember this time last year were told by SL 8 of them could join an SL2 to make a Superleague of 2x10 clubs and the rest could go to hell. The clubs resisted this and decided to stick together and fight for their future. In NOT voting for all this phoney baloney (read it Perez's script is a re-run of his 2016 boast about North American development, and guess what?? New York make the same wild claims of TV riches, players and anonymous rich investors) they would cut off the only lifeline they have so they just have to "suck it up" and put their hands up. In voting "FOR" (and this is the key point) they leave it to Superleague to be the one's to be seen to be killing the North American dream and I have this bang on right because two SL chairmen came out prior to the vote to suggest that they would do this as both McManus and Pearson indicated in the press last week. The fantasy element of this so called "expansion" has been extreme over the last three years of TWP but boy did Perez finish his presentation with the bombshell that if we follow his lead North America RL will become the top league in the world and will be able to pay players so much that the Transatlantic league will dominate the staid and boring NRL in Australia....... Perez: "My goal..within 10 years...is to supercede the NRL as the premier (RL) competition, we are going to be in bigger markets than Australia has, Toronto has show there is a massive hunger for Rugby league, my goal is the best players in the world playing in the RFL" So ultimately that's why the championship clubs voted yes as a no would leave them nothing. At least voting "Yes" still keeps what is becoming a howling pipedream of Aussie internationals playing in Ottawa and Batley going, and voting yes (more than anything) puts the ball back into Superleague's court to be the ones to kill the American dream, and Perez know this hence he's ramping it up. Read it up and work it out......
  4. They are NOT in Superleague and cannot enter as a guest club without the say so of the SL chairmen and the criteria for success was always develop players and find a high paying TV deal to share here. You epitomise the problem with this so called debate. Even Eric Perez in the middle of his great fantasy ramble with Dave Wood in 2016 admitted he had to get on with developing players and finding that TV deal, so he had grid iron trials that failed and no NA TV deal to share here has been forthcoming. Again two fails out of two. Yet you call it a success and worse than that you keep resurrecting Lenegan's throwaway comments about a "World League" which you should know was made to the Australians to whip up ticket sales for the Wigan Hull match, and has never been mentioned since. The value of your alleged contributions on here have really hit the factual depths. Of course this highlights why the debate continues - too many people have invested too much on what was just a dream. Get yourself some credibility lad and stop fantasising. It's not up to you to tell the chairmen how to act with respect. Elstone is a bag carrier and ever since the RFL/SL fall out Lenegan, McManus, Moran, Davey, Pearson, Hudgell (as their legal representative) and even Koukash have all variably spoken for Superleague. Only ONCE did the chairman distance themselves from a fellow chairman's public comments and that was when Koukash openly said the SL should split from the RFL, and guess what - they DID split in the end. BBFaz has this and everything else pretty much right. It was the RFL that decided to admit AND accommodate TWP and they did NOT ask Superleague if they could do this. This is why Superleague insisted the admission of the next two clubs was the Championship's decision not theirs and they are right. As it stands Superleague only need to make a decision if TWP win the promotion spot and that has not happened yet. You may have made that derogatry comment on "Parky Posts" (even though you agree with me so far) to distance yourself from my hard line, but maybe you should consider making your own decision whether TWP are a success or complete flop on the actual criteria they were set above? Well we pretty much know that on revenues of an 8,000 crowd with a lot of understandably free tickets doled out the TWP model is a massive loss making venture propped up by a Billionaire. I don't know what exactly what models Ottawa and New York are based on but if it is on TWP then without a $$Billionaire apiece I can only think they too will both be be massive loss making ventures. Thing is they have only been passed on principle so far, and NOT on a business plan which needs to address short term how do they cover the massive losses and long term if they were to get promotion from the Championship how will they develop players?? How will they find a big TV deal to share?? .....Here is the unmistakable Superleague view..... Hull FC chief, Pearson.“I think it’s pretty key we don’t have too many overseas teams in Super League. “We’d like them to be able to offer something concrete that improves Super League, and to offer an attraction for Sky or other potential broadcaster. I’d like them to be able to put their own broadcasting deal on the table. “There’s no point in signing up thirteen players from a relegated team here, and bringing them back over here to play here for months. We’re supposed to be attracting a new global market, improving viewing figures not just rebranding a relegated team with a North American badge. They surely have to show they can offer something to the growth of the game, So as it stands neither club have been given the green light in practice yet and if TWP win the league and Leeds are relegated then do we really want to be to watching Leeds in Ottawa Shirts to add to Leigh in Toronto shirts. This is how ridiculous it is becoming.........
  5. I'd guess Campbell voted for TWP, New York and Ottawa simply because the gates for those matches would be more than the gates for Barrow, Swinton and Rochdale. I forgot Fev gave up their ambition when Nahaboo reneged on them and left, and Rovers became a Dual Reg club. It's not about me Robert, it's easy to shoot the messenger and avoid the message that is loud and clear. Superleague do not want these phoney baloney clubs who offer nothing to the game here. It's a master stroke by the SL bosses to make the RFL & the Championship decide if they still want the American dream or not. It was Wood on behalf of the RFL who accepted TWP into the RFL and that was his decision and the Championship clubs to either resist or accept. They accepted it then and have accepted it now as they don't want to be the ones to be seen killing the American dream. I have set out exactly how I would halt the demise of the game, which would be to stop it being ruined by this ridiculous nonsense about North American "expansion". Every empty NA club with no TV deal and no player development replacing English clubs who do underpin a big TV deal and do develop players is a nail in the coffin of the game here. Why is it when Perez himself promised player development and TV deals in 2016 you now want to gloss over the fact he's delivered neither and still try to pretend these North American clubs are set to grow the game?? They simply are not going to do it and you aren't man enough to admit it. No no no my friend. Get this right. In 2016 TWP were given the criteria of having to develop players and find a TV deal. In the interview with Dave Woods Perez was very clear that was his remit. He spoke of developing the players through grid iron conversions and he boasted of the massive NATV market he would be chasing. Nearly three years on neither has been achieved and there is no prospect of it being achieved, and therefore it is game over, not game about to be started. Nobody wants to talk about it but Mr. McManus spoke out about the American clubs last Monday "TWP is a team of English and antipodeans owned by an Australian in Canada. They are facing strong opposition from professional Union clubs over there. The climate is a massive problem. For the first quarter of the season they can't play home games (and) you can't change the rules to suit one club". Superleague have spoken, they don't want them..... "There is a huge difference between French clubs and North America"..."If Toulouse were to come in that would open up new avenues with French Broadcasters" "In France there is a meaning and infrastructure behind it. There's a semi-pro league, they are developing players". Superleague have spoken, they want France. The whole NA thing has been a fantasy in the mind of one man which has been acted out by his bag carrier and now McManus has called it out and told the championship it's up to them to decide whether they want to keep them because Superleague favour Toulouse and France. I have the whole interview in front of me and yet I have to read post after post on here that wants to turn reality on it's head and pretend this vote by the Championship clubs to accept Ottawa and New York is the start of a Transatlantic Superleague!!! Here's McManus again "I'm keen to see a second French club in Superleague, I would like to see Toulouse promoted to Superleague because that really would spur on growth! Just what do people not understand about this!! The whole record of Superleague's announcements to the game has been based on the big clubs chairmen like Lenegan. Pearson, Moran, Davey and McManus taking it in turns to speak for Superleague, and Superleague were clear last monday expansion is to be France and not North America and so it's up to the Championship clubs whether they want to keep North American clubs in THEIR league. NA expansion is over as far as SL are concerned, not beginning Mr. Gubrats.
  6. No RL club anywhere in the world has a bigger backer than David Argylle at Toronto yet three years on he has done nothing for the game. As Eamon McManus says they are an English & Aussie team owned by an Australian who can't play at home for a large part of the season so can't play in Superleague, plus they can't produce quality players, and can't get a big TV deal to share. Adam Pearson isn't impressed either which is probably the reason why the Championship clubs are being asked if they want these phoney baloney clubs. So it's "fantastic news"" that a "significant majority" of Championship clubs are in favour of them? So what was the vote? Was it 14-10 in favour, and if it was which 10 clubs voted not to have these invented clubs who won't add more quality players or a big TV deal to share to the game, which is actually what they are being asked to "do for the game" Did the bigger ambitious Championship clubs like Widnes, Bradford, Halifax, Featherstone, York and Leigh vote for these North American clubs to come in and outspend them for the top three places in the championship? Or were the clubs who gave them a majority vote amongst clubs who have no power to deliver their Superleague dreams, all the minnows like Rochdale, Coventry, Hunslet, Batley etc etc etc who think they will get a tidy crowd for the visits of these clubs to keep "the wolf from the door" so to speak?? So come on then let's have some facts here, let me know just how many and which clubs back the North American dream because it appears Superleague aren't interested in them and a "significant minority" of Championship clubs aren't interested in them either, so just how many of the 34 clubs here in England actually really back them?? and what exactly do you mean by "what they can do for the game" because I can't see what they can do?? Enlighten me for once?? Have a debate? It's Leigh in a different shirt so far, and I wonder where Ottawa or New York will get their players from? Which Championship clubs will they raid for their best players? Will it be the top Championship clubs supplying the 60 players these clubs will want to drag out of the game here and send to North America?? If they are "Well backed" such that they can pay the best players at Bradford, Widnes, Halifax, Leigh, Featherstone and York a lot more to leave those clubs for North America then I can't see how those clubs will have voted for them?? If you read McManus's article on Toronto Wolfpack, backed by Adam Pearson, you may want to revise the idea "they will hopefully go up" into Superleague. They see no advantage to having these clubs in SL as "they do not contribute to TV revenue nor produce players" The reality appears to be completely different to the spin that somehow the game here wants them. A "majority" of the championship clubs who voted for them is in no way a majority of the clubs who have full voting rights here. Apparently Hull don't want them, St.Helens don't want them, but maybe London Skolars and Coventry do. Do Leigh want to be pushed two more places down the pecking order, or be raided further for their players??
  7. Right at the start I suggested the NA clubs stopped talking Superleague and buckled down to developing the actual game in North America in the Championship. I suggested TWP kept their North American players and added to them as best they could but they sacked them. One big Superleague Chairman in Saints Mr. McManus has made it clear he didn't favour phoney baloney clubs in Superleague because they don't develop any players nor do they offer anything to the TV audience here. Now we see a second big SL Chairman in Mr. Pearson adding his criticisms, and you can bet his colleague Mr. Hudgell at Hull.K.R. will be taking exactly the same line. The nonsense about away fans not mattering is laughable. When Leeds and Bradford or Hull and HKR or Cas and Wakey pull their biggest crowds of the season then that is because of "away" fans. Who are we going to say doesn't matter next? Casual fans?? A 20,000 crowd is just that no matter where these people come from. A customer is a customer in business. They are NOT going to break up the Hull Derby for a phoney club to come in and that was evident when SL clubs were looking to increase the size of SL to be able to re-admit HKR when they got relegated had they not won the MPG. After their return SL looked to decrease to 10 clubs in SL1 and the Championship clubs vetoed that. The decision to admit more phoney clubs by the Championship to their competition merely underlined how far apart the RFL/Championship and Superleague still are, but fair enough if the Championship clubs want to go Transatlantic then that is their choice, but at least it has become clear that Superleague are against becoming Transatlantic because these clubs offer no new player pools nor any new TV money. Just "Glamour" and the demise of our own clubs here who they may replace. The massive rift between SL and RFL continues and the next major moment will be if Toronto win the Championship and get a promotion place. Do they get promoted? Superleague have variously indicate both "No they offer nothing" and "Yes we don't have a problem". What Superleague wanted out of this meeting was the Championship clubs to do the dirty work of putting a stop to the Transatlantic dream and they have clearly refused to do so. The game remains completely split. So as we move forward by kicking the North American can down the road what else will be a major issue? How about Salary caps? Is the Championship going to still be a competition where you can spend the same as Superleague clubs? I don't know who actually decides salary caps but the decision to take the brakes off Championship clubs spending was made to allow Mr. Beaumont at Leigh not to be Hamstrung in his attempt to make Leigh a Superleague club. It would be good if the Championship Salary cap was put back down to the £300,000 it used to be, but as I say I do not know who has the power to decide this aspect of the game? Anyone know? What I do know is the impending new Contract with SKY is likely to be smaller for 2022, but will be entirely in the hands of Superleague who are clear that overseas clubs offer nothing much in terms of additional subscribers to SKY. SKY may show free championship matches but those who buy the subscriptions want to watch Huddersfield, Castleford, Wakefield etc not the same players dressing up as New York and Ottawa. So is the next issue a complete break between the RFL and SL? Do we end up with the game torn completely apart because of a salesman called Eric Perez, and a spiteful Nigel Wood??
  8. Don't be fooled by what he says. He is using France as a way of him and his fellow SL chairmen whom he speaks for to maintain their "Expansionist" credentials. It is the SL chairman's style to send out Chairmen one by one to pass on their thoughts to us mere mortals. McManus is one of the influential leaders of the big four SL clubs alongside Hetherington at Leeds, Moran at Warrington and Lenegan at Wigan who were instrumental in backing Toulouse a few years back for entry to the pro game here. Only drawbacks were the lack of enough players being developed (at least that's a lot better than America where none are being developed and all are playing Rugby Union as I have always pointed out) and the lack of a French TV deal McManus suggests will come with a French Derby , but would we have a SKY contract at all if the only pro clubs we had were Saints and Wigan? The REAL message in which for the first time no punches were pulled as McManus called Toronto Wolfpack out as ”A Team of English and Australians owned by an Australian” was they would never become Canadian due mainly to the overwhelming dominance/success of Rugby Union there. The other issue was the climate which still sees "TWP playing annually exclusively in England up to Easter" something McManus says would be against the rules in Superleague. Finally to underline the alleged preference for French expansion McManus said the difference between such as Toulouse and TWP was “huge”. It is inconceivable this is just one man’s opinion, and that his other powerful colleagues would disagree, and it is fairly clear which way the Championship are being influenced to think and in time act as Superleague's hit men. Part time Championship clubs are hardly likely anyway to want to be stuck with (allegedly) rich American full time teams hogging the best players outside SL, forever blocking Championship clubs route to possible promotion for themselves. Not that I have ever heard anything from any of these rich Americans I suspect do not exist and never have. Finally there was at last a mention of the reality that we get our lifeline of a SKY TV contract for providing English fans with English club games. The American dream was about a big gamble based around the World Cup being played there as the real catalyst for growth, so when that went so did the dream. I fear once the whole thing collapses we will have an avalanche of RL media articles and posts about a "missed opportunity" despite even the best part of three years on and absolutely nothing promised, whether pro players converted from Grid Iron, Big NA TV deals or big NA Investors have ever come about. Had all this actually come about these massive NA investors would have just transferred the whole thing from the M62 to Route 66 anyway!! Meanwhile Mr. Argylle has his escape route into Mr. McNeils arms in London.......
  9. So are you "Interested" enough for these American teams to replace English teams in Superleague as that is the Perez plan "5-6 north american teams are needed in Superleague to secure a large North American TV deal". That is his own "fact", and I know it's a fact fans of Huddersfield, HKR, Castleford, Wakey and Salford and their owners do not want to step aside nor do fans and owners of Bradford or Widnes want to be shut out of SL forever. Over to you Mr. Facts? The criteria are not "Guarantee's and Bond's" they need to provide TV deals to share and produce pro quality RL players. Don't make things up, even Perez is stating they will produce players because even he now admits that's a requirement (not that I believe he will do it - failed badly with CRL and TWP on this) This must be wishful thinking, only last year Superleague moved to go to 10 clubs but were blocked. Where would the players come from Tommy? This is another post that re-invents the entry criteria to keep the fantasy alive "Middlesborough" is quite a big name why don't we put them into Superelague, Bombay is quite a large city - why not them? "The decline" started around 1912 when the Welsh clubs pulled out. it was at its worst around 1970 but we are in a far better place than 1970 today. We have a large TV deal and we produce enough players to stock a pro-league to service that deal. Our clubs deliver. Do your clubs deliver paying TV deals and Pro-players? Do you not know about the history of Canadian RL not "declining" but actually dying out altogether - twice. Your criteria for entry to the game here are made up - They need to produce players and underpin a paying NA TV contract. Read Mr. Perez's own words on this please. He agrees with me. As above we don't have the players for 14 clubs and therefore your made up NA clubs would in reality struggle to compete in SL and would populate the places at the bottom of the league. The best players are in the UK where they would stay. Life is soooo rosy when TWP are winning most of their games in the Championship. Huddersfield once went undefeated in the Championship under their rich owner but they struggle to compete. TWP aren't getting 10K for losing all the time nor will kids bother to play or NATV companies give a large paying TV contract to a Canadian version of Huddersfield. This is reality, we put up with TWP as we want David Argyle's $Billions. But we want him for London Skolars. A strong London side competing hard for trophies is the expansion we need as McNeil set out in 2013. If we are to "engineer" the make up of Super league this needs to be the positive move we make. Anyway keep flying the flag of reason.....
  10. What we do, is professionalise 12 clubs in terms of maximising their on field performances to attract a TV deal last valued at £200,000.000, which has been successful for 23 years now in keeping Rugby League in England solvent and in the public eye. The player pool has declined proof being we moved from 14 pro clubs to 12 pro clubs in 2014, and we are told by SKY the next deal will be lower. That is the actual measure of the decline we have faced/face. The plan is that if there is less money and less players in 2021 we will move to a 10 club SL. That nearly happened in 2014, was planned again last year ("SL1 & SL2") and could easily happen in 2021. In 1970 we had no professional players, a small TV deal and crowds half of what they are now so we are not dying as such we are however declining from the heights we had of 14 pro-clubs and a £200M TV deal. I favour a re-adjustment of the RL business as Superleague are indeed planning. It will carry us forward for another five years to 2026. The idea we should do something so radical that it involves throwing out at least five SL clubs for five clubs from abroad, only one of which actually exists and only exists as a massive loss making vanity project for one man's ego is absolutely ludicrous and exists only in the mind of about 20-30 gentlemen on here. You gentlemen remain under the spell of the wizard Eric Perez who back in 2016 promised us players galore and massive TV deals. He had his chance and delivered nothing Why can you not understand that the TV customer base for pro Rugby league is here in England and no we do not want a Transatlantic League. Why can you not understand that they do not play RL in North America and no half our professional players do not want to be travelling the Atlantic week after week. It doesn't matter a hoot what attendances are in Toronto, you offer us no TV deals and no players which was promised, and want us to throw half our clubs out of Superleague for the privilige which will lead to their owners walking away as will fans as will people in the local game who support player development. I'm not having a go at you so much as those who have been frightened to call out this nonsense and say "no" and explain why it was not a "no" to Perez in July 2016 (I suspect it was because the World Cup was going to America meant we could not say no at that time). I do not know exactly what is happening at the moment but there must come a time when we put a stop to this because the bigger the hype gets the bigger publicity blow there will be to the game here when we eventually say no we are not going Transatlantic after all, no there are no new players or new TV deals in America to be had. We have let this nonsense get out of control and are afraid of the bad publicity when it inevitably has to be stopped and that is when SKY offer us a lower TV deal for 10 clubs. I can only hope the upcoming meeting to assess Ottawa and New York calls out the fantasy, and limits the damage of taking this any further. And I hope the quid pro-quo will be to drive David Argyle into the arms of Hector McNeil and Superleague. All respect to all you dreamers, sport is about dreams, but remember who sold you the dream before you come back at me. If you do come back at me stick to players and TV deals, that is what we asked of Toulouse and that was what Perez himself offered to our game for entry to it accordingly..
  11. A. Because the subscribing audience is English. Therefore the big 14 English clubs and their fans are provided with the entertainment they want. This would maximise revenue to SKY and maximise the contract for English clubs to share. B. If the SKY TV deal was lower we may only be able to put 10 English clubs in SL. That would be detrimental as a lot of English fans who would not have a team in SL and on TV. C. I have never talked about "Growing the game" merely halting the decline and making the most of the English game. D. Eh?? I'm talking about halting the decline of the game. E. I didn't say it was gospel, all I am saying is his plan aims to include London as a successful SL club to take away the regional nature of SL in England. F. McNeil has already attracted David Argylle to invest in London Skolars. He has his massive investor FFS. Why do you think that throwing half of an English SL aside, depriving half the TV audience here of watching their clubs, and cutting SKY TV subs by half is any sort of a viable plan? Why do you think SKY want to show foreign clubs? Why do you think English clubs abandoned by SKY will continue to bother with Rugby League? Your from Australia, why not advocate half the NRL clubs being replaced by Phoney Baloney clubs from elsewhere and tell me how well that will go down with Australians. OVER TO YOU
  12. The SL bosses have already “tested the water” with two French clubs Les Catalans (2006 on) and Toulouse (2009 on). The criteria for testing the water was “More French Players capable of playing at SL level” and “A paying French TV contract to share with Superleague”. The result has been no French TV contracts and no more players beyond the initial numbers of 2006. You may recall last week a French colleague confirming the French game has gone nowhere at grass roots, and above all the major “test” was indeed successful “Tests” between GB and France. IIRC you went to the last one and left very early. As for testing the water with North America on the SL quality player issue we are all just about agreed there will be no quality SL North American players for “15-20 years”. They themselves say this as an excuse for not making any effort. But IIRC there were some North American players season before last but they were sacked off. On testing for a TV deal Perez said that to get a deal would needs 5-6 NA clubs in Superleague before anyone would bite from the TV companies. We cannot sacrifice 5-6 SL clubs here for several years on a wing and a prayer NA clubs will get that deal (SKY pay for English games for English customers) So I do apologise but I do not agree for one second we can experiment with Superleague along your lines. We owe it to SKY and the audience to give them want they want, and in any case we are already fairly clear there’s no more players to be had from abroad and no more TV deals. We may however be surprised though! If the April meeting brings in NY and Ottawa then they will be allowed a further test – at least in the Championship. Finally as for my thoughts on how to “grow” the game, I don’t accept that you initially grow something that is shrinking. You halt the decline first. As I have said to ensure we do not decline further we have to put the English game first as that actually produces players and TV contracts. I am a pragmatic expansionist, not a dreamer. Our game is so small we cannot go sharing it around the world, and we cannot allow real clubs like Leigh, Bradford and Widnes to decline in the Championship. If we did have 14 places in SL as you suggest ( I fear we will not come 2021) I would try to re-grow the game and consider putting 14 English clubs in SL adding back Leigh, Widnes and Bradford, to the clubs we have now. A London club would be first pick that being Skolars under McNeil and Argylle. McNeil set out a plan for growth in 2013 based around a wealthy successful London club. I would go for that accordingly. They don't play RL in Ottawa and it's miles away, a pointless loss making, inconvenient idea. Perez failed to set up any player development at Toronto and failed to get a TV contract, leaving a massive loss making millstone around Argylle's neck. Ottawa can't work on that basis alone. London has to be the plan with McNeil and Argylle together. I'll dig out McNeils original interview.........
  13. I know that some people on here have a problem with me. They are people who have fallen for all the North American hype, convinced RL is growing there with big NA investors, Big NATV deals being signed, and NA players to be developed (well maybe one day 20 years on, maybe probably not). But as it stands the problem is I see none of this despite the years going by…... So myself as ever, and a growing number of people on here have a problem with you and your ilk as you continue to ignore the failure of the NA game so far to deliver anything but hype. Your frustrations manifest as “shoot the messenger” when anyone dares to point out the lack of substance to date in the North American dream. Here’s a simple example…….. This is exactly the sort of “shoot the messenger” post that constantly comes my way. More and more posters on here are progressively posting their doubts. You won’t be able to shoot them all my friend. The fact is I have it bang on right that the quality player pool available to the Northern Hemisphere is all playing here and is enough for about 10-12 clubs at most. Sure we can have half NA clubs and half English clubs, but those English clubs and their supporters who would have to make way for the dream like Salford, HKR, Cas, Wakefield, London and Huddersfield aren’t going to do so easily, those who are outside SL with ambitions to get back in like Widnes, Leigh and Bradford are not going to lie down and die either. Either of you guys want to discuss this stark reality?? I thought not ? so carry on discussing me.
  14. I'm not asked anything, just called an "idiot" by people who then encourage each other to "put him on ignore"? The basic problem is people wanting to play the game which is "personal choice" you just can't make them play. You can have a Billionaire but if nobody wants to play RL then that's that, and clearly since the 1920's Canada does not want to play RL. Therefore a Canadian SL club can only thrive if they import quality players from somewhere else. The salary cap stops people like Argyle just buying the worlds best, but he still can buy players from the player pool here which he does. Each North American club setting up in Superleague here is an English club making way. The quality player pool is VERY limited, so people pretend it's not and that quality players grow on trees, or paying a player more makes him a quality player. Visa rules also limit Aussie imports which is also ignored on here. People pretend you build a club with just money, but you don't. You do it using the money to buy the players. Imagine 19 more David Argyle's coming into the game. Will that lead to more kids taking the game up giving you the "growth" you talk about? You see the growth we desperately need to expand the number of clubs is quality player growth. In recent years due to a player shortage clubs like Bradford, Wakey, London and Widnes have struggled playing appallingly at times . They now struggle in Hull for players as well. We lose top top players to the NRL as well Of course the few that wake up to this reality suggest we "invest in youth development" as though once again money is the key. But it's not. You can buy a playing field, set up a clubhouse and changing rooms, and pitches find a few (raw) coaches, and generally provide top class facilities. But if the quality local kids all want to go play soccer or Union then we are stuffed once again by personal choice trumping money. We forget how hard RL is to play and how soft kids and parents can nowadays be. Let's be straight here, the only quality kids who want to be RL professionals tend to live in places along the M62 where RL has a strong local tradition. That's not in Liverpool, Manchester of Sheffield either. It's a VERY limited area. My "opinion" is not open to debate. It's a fact confirmed by those who run the game. Lenegan says "expansion" and "growth" is about more quality players first and foremost and YES you have to pay them as well as you can which is what TV deals are about. It's what Marquee allowances are for So it's all about players. Some spoof post above states TWP now has a £20M TV deal they do not have to share with the other clubs. The fact is £20M is nothing compared to the £Billion Argyle sits on. £200M is irrelevant if you can only spend £2M a year on your squad. Everyday we see rubbish like this posted on here with occasional caveats that yes players are important but it will take 15-20 years for Canada to develop them. Only problem is they haven't even bothered to start. Perez knew it was futile from all his years of failure at Canada RL so he tried Grid Iron conversions and it failed. Catalans Superleague success has not got more kids playing in France. Less play. So thank you for your intelligent question, growth is the key, but it is a growth in playing the game that would be the real success. Measure your phoney Canadian and American clubs on how many quality RL players they produce now and if "none" predict for me how many North Americans will be playing at top level in ten years and again the answer is none isn't it. Yet in 10 years we will apparently have Boston, New York, Jacksonville, Ottawa, Toronto and Montreal attracting £Hundreds of millions of TV money. We won't have Castleford, Huddersfield, HKR, Hull, Wakefield, Bradford, Salford or Widnes etc in Superleague any more and as more people go through the North American Turnstiles less and less dads and subsequently their kids here will bother with RL and less and less schools will bother. If anything Rugby Union may start to get a foothold along the M62, a real threat to a weakening RL game here.... I am realistic about the situation so I am firmly behind preserving English RL as long as we can, kind of "fight to the death" for it. If we want to kill it then just let a load of North Americans flood it with money. That WILL kill it and i do not expect many on here or in the RL media to ever discuss this dilemma at any length. Put Parky on ignore is always the cry!! very soon a post will come along bragging about money.....
  15. You need to pop New York and Boston in there, and Jacksonville. 8 team NA conference. Then pick your eight English & French clubs for the European conference what about Toulouse, Catalans, London Broncos, London Skolars, Newcastle, Liverpool, Manchester.....maybe Cardiff All big clubs in big places. Manfred and I can't really prove 10 of the clubs above even exist, we again can't prove there are any rich investors at all for ten of the clubs we have named. I cannot prove that there are 120 more top class professionals to stock the extra clubs. Can't prove NA will contribute a single player or there's a TV deal for any of this either, can't prove dinosaur M62 SL clubs will let this go through either. Darn it!! Try paying £20 for a ticket and the guy next to you saying he was given his ticket in the street. Mindst you he probably will be in the Beer tents whilst your watching the match. Anyway Danny Lockwood in League Express suggests tongue in cheek TWP's offer to forgo the SKY money, will see them in SL, as the other clubs will benefit from a bigger share of the money. Ultimately seven SL clubs is a majority vote so four more NA clubs can come in leaving the seven sharing the SKY contract and the NA clubs funding themselves via these large consortiums of rich owners, but I can't prove they exist until some names appear other than "Argylle". Anyway bottom line is the Championship clubs headed by the RFL are going to be judge, jury and possible executioner for the North American dream. This leaves Mr. Elstone and Mr. Lenegan saying "Nothing to do with us". If they give it the chop that's a death sentence for TWP and Argyle will be able to honourably withdraw from the American dream and come to London. What I can prove is since 2013 Hector McNeil has made the argument a seriously strong presence in London, with a winning SL club (or two?) could do so much to keep the games profile up here, and maximise revenues here. That winning club would need someone like a $Billionaire to bankroll the "London dream". If the championship clubs reject the NA dream then what price the "dream" getting on a plane to London??
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