The Parksider

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  1. Evalds to Cas

    Well we can't access Salford's internal files and computers and pore through those before interviewing each board member separately under caution. With respect when someone doesn't like something on here they challenge it with the "absolute proof please". This happened over the split between the SL chairmen when we changed to the MPG, the same journos were spot on. I don't buy your lazy journo's stuff. Bower & Shaw indicate more to leave and actually name Griffin and Lannon as being amongst them and HKR to bid for Lui again. The evidence is of course not proven in the high court, but circumstantially how does the Salford board run to full SL cap when there is nobody putting private money in any more? Bower and Shaw provide the figure they have to run to £1.4M. Sounds plausible? Why would they make this up? Do you have the facts and therefore dispute this?? Is the board to issue denials at any point? Stevo once said it was a crime for an SL club not to run to full cap and many on here may say it's a crime not to run an academy as well. Salford would not have got an SL license 2009 on these issues alone. The Reds are a lovable club, and pulled off a stunning win last night, but they cannot get away with cutting until the books balance as they will have a responsibility to compete hard and develop players to the same level as other SL clubs if Superleague is cut to 10. Obviously this has been asked many times, but Mr. Davey easily outlived Marwan as an SL club owner. The unofficial answer is that there is some kind of legacy to be left to keep Fartown in SL, but other clubs could lose their benefactors before then. The last cut was done on two down and none up, so at this point in time that's Fartown and Catalans out & Salford in just! However it can still be done "on paper" using such as the licensing criteria, so cutting everything around the first team and cutting that too would not bode well for Salford despite heroic results as last night surely was.
  2. Evalds to Cas

    What are you talking about? Are you oblivious to the reality that some clubs fortunes are inextricably linked to having a rich owner. Jack Wilkinson bankrolled them for long enough his departure nearly killed the club. Then along came Marwan Koukash, do you not remember him? If you do, do you not remember his big investment in the club and players? Do you not remember that he left the club last year?? The idea this is a plot by the other clubs shows you don't read anything up about the game. The current Salford board are reported to need to run to a £1.4M player budget this year and are reported as asking clubs to take certain players. If other clubs are to pay out they want to pick who they want, not have Salford dump on them who they don't want and that is fair enough. The club has to keep out of the "Red" whilst fulfilling fixtures as best they can, players have a duty to see their contracts out whilst at the same time playing for another Superleague contract at another club. The cost cutting dates back to closing the academy, again nothing to do with a plot by the other clubs. Your argument they will be better off In Superleague is abject nonsense, and is oblivious to the damage they would do to the league and other clubs if they became another Halifax who in 2003 cut their budgets and lost 27 games in a row shipping 44 points a game, and saw crowds drop to 1,200. It's not about one club in a 12 club league it's about the health of that league as a whole and Salford's plight is probably a big reason for the plans to cut to 10 clubs in the top division. The fascinating question is the MPG. That will take place with TWP & TO warned they may not be promoted if they win it, London incapable of staging SL, and the rest too small and skint like Salford are becoming. Salford may be ripe to lose it. How Superleague will get to ten clubs if they go ahead with these plans is a real mystery though, they can block championship clubs coming up and let Salford down gently, but how do they get rid of a second SL club and who??
  3. Gareth O’Brien off to Toronto

    It’s not as simple as that at all. This is a Canadian club 3000 miles away that was started in the Championships by the RFL as a “guest” club of the RFL. At no time have TWP being granted a right to “start at the bottom and work their way to the top”. Superleague is the top, and it was confirmed some time ago, and reconfirmed by Ralph Rimmer recently that the “top” for TWP may well stop at the top of the Championship. Your definition of “deserving” appears to be based on them having a Billionaire owner who merely has to get the cheque book out and flash transfer fees and big wages at the likes of Salford and O’Brien. For a long time now clubs have effectively had to “deserve” their places through more than just throwing money about. This principle dates right back to the refusal to allow Dewsbury or Hunslet promotion because they would not add anything to Superleague. Like it or not clubs who promote the grass roots, who develop players, and clubs who have fanbases that help to swell the crowds here are the ones that have been deemed “deserving”. You make an amazing claim that anyone rich anywhere in the world can just import a team and “deserve” to be in Superleague. Think through where that would get us? An SL full of overseas clubs, our own clubs consigned to the Championship, interest in the game here going the way it’s gone in your own neck of the woods in Cumbria once your club lost their SL place? You could not be more wrong At the start of the season Nicholas and Diskin at Batley responded to TWP’s boast they could now spend £1,900,000 on players and also sign a Marguee player at many thousands more. Diskin pointed out that the championship could not be a more unfair competition. TWP are riding their luck and flashing their money, but certainly “deserving” doesn’t come into it in any way.
  4. Super League 1 & 2

    That’s not the point and you know it. TWP clearly have no interest in producing players, they merely want to use money to buy a place in SL because Argyle loves his RL and wants to own a professional side as soon as he can, and cannot get in at the NRL. Perhaps the English SL clubs should copy TWP player development and abandon their academies and farm their fringe players out to Skolars or any other Championship 1 team, as you clearly believe this is bona-fide player development. As I understand it Ryan Burroughs is 27. He’s hardly a kid on Dual registration, and Ngwati is a real talent that can certainly handle (as can Burroughs) the championship. Jack Walker at Leeds is 18 years old and handles SL, so the idea Ngwati has to play third tier is stupidity. TWP also ejected Rhys Jacks and Tom Dempsey so clearly they don’t much care for home grown and only want imports who can win them an SL place. As tokenistic, and frankly pathetic as TWP’s claims of developing players are, we have the July 2016 Perez promise that NA college “super athletes” would make TWP into an SL club double quick and would fill up rosters at many an English SL club with said NA college talent. Nigh on two years on not a single super athlete is in sight. I wonder why you don’t raise this aspect of TWP “development” ? If you’re a TWP fan wanting an SL place, then come back to me when your club have done the hard work to deserve it. You appear to pride yourself on reasoned debate, so spiteful sarcasm does you no favours. You need to compare and contrast your club Rhinos efforts on player development with those of TWP. Your club were pioneers of academy RL and propagated many fine home grown players. Long before the “foundations” were formally introduced, Leeds were out there in the community providing enthusiasm and opportunities for young people to get involved in the game I have first hand family experience of the effort and investment made by the Rhinos to grow RL in Leeds. Meanwhile over in Toronto I have heard absolutely nothing this last 20+ months as regards TWP developing the game in any way at any level. They could have had a game where the kids could have come along and tried out mini-RL with the coaches, they could have sponsored the local amateurs to give the kids an “RL day” to try out the sport. Instead it appears that every match was about promoting beer swilling and not RL. If Leeds abandoned their foundation work, their kids day, and their academy, you would be scathing, yet it’s somehow OK for TWP to not even bother to make any like efforts at all. Let’s cut the sarcasm and start with you explaining to me why, If TWP want to join Leeds in SL, they should be excused not putting in any hard work on player development this last nigh on two years?
  5. Gareth O’Brien off to Toronto

    What a breath of sense and fresh air. If this is what you'd do to widen the junior base then questions have to be asked why TWP have done nothing but talk big, act small and now shove two players who should be playing for them, from pillar to post pretending it's development. Clearly "development" was what they talked but did dot do until Rimmer repeated an old message that as guests Toronto have no automatic right to be promoted to Superleague. The frenzied rush around to create an image of developing players proves that is one hurdle, whilst the big money Transfer fee outbidding English clubs that wanted O'Brien proves the other hurdle that TWP look like they feel they must win the MPG now. I can only conclude that they want to win promotion and make the argument "well you let us into the English league why can't we come in", but the signing of SL quality players from under the noses of SL clubs will make them no friends at all. Anyway since Mr. Moore projected a North American League with home grown talent, TWP's ambitions have largely bit the dust. That they persevere with this charade, I can only conclude is based entirely on David Argyle wanting to own a top professional RL club and nothing more. Had he had chance to get an NRL club there would have been no TWP anyway. For Salford it was reported they are cutting the budget to £1.4M and offering players like Griffin and Lannon to other clubs whilst HKR want Lui. This looks like a managed plan to downsize to a Championship club. Giving up the SL ghost is understandable and clearly TWP hope a depleted Salford will be the club they could pick off in the MPG. So maybe they'll buy a couple more Reds! You look at the top of the championship, London on 500 crowds, part time dual reg skint Fev, Toulouse trying to follow Catalans who themselves can't put together a decent French team, and finally Leigh Reserves. I have no doubt the SL clubs are deadly serious about dropping Superleague to 10 clubs now, because in terms of real SL clubs with proper backing, facilities and player development systems 10 is about all we have, with Saints, Wigan, Leeds, Hull, Fartown, Widnes, Cas, Wakey, Wire and Catalans .
  6. Super League 1 & 2

    There was NOTHING attractive about a load of Leigh players in TWP shirts when they turned up at Halifax, as for the "superathletes" from the NA colleges Perez promised this in July 2016 to Dave Woods and it never happened, all that has happened is Ngwati and Burroughs now play at Skolars. The clubs we have, have the pathways from foundations through to academies which had an extra £18,000,000 invested into it by SKY, and it IS a problem. The "clubs we bring in" if you mean transatlantic ones offer a big fat zero in terms of player development for years to come. Very important people realise that last line. However Paul, of course we do not cut until Leeds play Wigan every week. We just have to face reality unlike the two posters above. We have got away with clubs playing each other 3 times a season since 2000 and it at least provides more of the big games for the TV. If they like it we have to do it... Soccer, and RU's participation figures have fallen off a cliff in modern times too. Our problem is we are so much smaller than them so it hurts more. Investment is there, but the problem is you cannot bribe kids to play, they have to want to play, and most do not. Therefore the plan will be 10 clubs and if things get worse then we stay at 10 and accept standards may get lower. We may have to import more players, we will have to accept a lower standard and hope this still keeps the crowds and TV audience. There will always be kids who want to play RL and we will always have Rugby League but calling for "investment" and "pathways" all the time when it's there, and inventing "Superathletes" (sounds like a Marvel/DC comic caper) isn't the answer. We just have to manage the reality of the situation, which is limited investment and interest in our game and TBF that is what Superleague are doing. I'm in support of that and not critical of them because they don't swallow the guff above. Especially Wellsy's idea reducing the SL to 10 reduces the player pool, which is more nonsense. The player pool is the overall number of people who play 13 a side Rugby league and who would qualify to play professionally.
  7. Super League 1 & 2

    Jeez....not enough players or money for goodness sake. Rubbish, the way we have worked both before a 14 club league and after a 14 club league is for top sides to play each other 3 times. This is therefore nothing new and a good way to ensure that the TV contract has plenty of matches between the top sides to show. It’s not ideal but it has worked both before licensing and after. This is important for the TV contract. A ten club Superleague was on the table way back in 2013 because of the lack of quality players. Instead they reduced to 12. Since then the quality of players has hardly improved, so this always was an obvious choice for any change to the format. Talking 14 is ridiculous. On the mind numbing fantasy RL stuff e.g. “conferences” and “cross league” games where we have 20 so called “SL clubs” it is the case that the reduction is also about funding so It seems quite obvious the top league continues to get most of the money rendering any conference or inter league fixtures pointless. TV does not need Featherstone 6 Leeds 62 etc. Early days yet but Catalans, HKR, Salford and Widnes look to have poor squads against the rest so again this points to going to 10 to retain quality and up the top club funding, IIRC there was talk of a “parachute payment” for the relegated club so again SL2 isn’t going to be funded by TV money to make it a pro league. Sad but sensible. The real questions for me are what comes after SL1 & 2? Certainly not SL3 & SL4 even though there are 38 clubs plus allegedly New York and Bristol on the horizon for four divisions. If the central funding is cut I would think a good number of clubs would be out of business and the rest will make up a new RL championship. Whether Catalans TWP or Toulouse will retain their “guest status” is another one to ponder when the future appears to be pulling up drawbridges.
  8. People invest a lot of personal time and money over many years following their clubs, and that builds an emotional attachment with the said clubs. of course the bulk of fans fall away if a clubs fortunes equally fall away but there is always a small loyal core left including people who are prepared to step forward and take it upon themselves to keep a club running even though they may not be a Brian Snape or a Jack Wilkinson or a Marwan Koukash. One of the things they are proud of is their identity and heritage, and at Swinton one of their great stalwarts wrote one of the finest histories you can get of his club. For 22 years we have argued the merits and pitfalls of taking two pins out of a map and putting one bigger pin half way between. These people are human beings not pins, and the idea it would not "put anyone off" is wholly at odds with the outcome of many such conversations on here. Swinton and Rangers are about two wholly different things, progress and preservation. In complete contrast Tex offers the insightful "The reason why I think soccer swept the world anyone can play it. Easier to understand and have an emotional attachment to a sport if you already playing it." Two coats and a ball and you immediately sell the game to kids. Rugby is a niche participation sport reduced in it's appeal, making Manchester Rangers important in terms of bringing people into the game to play. Our heritage is important making Swinton worth preserving as long as they can balance the books and compete. Let's not merge and destroy.
  9. We've played this fantasy game of proposing a club in a new area and then projecting it climbing all the way to the top regularly for many years. In this case we are trying to argue that somehow Manchester is a non Rugby League place where the game is new to the population, and the excellent response to Rangers is proof positive that this thing can grow and grow and grow. It assumes that people in Manchester who love to watch and play don't already go to watch RL in Salford, or Swinton, or Rochdale or Oldham or jump on the train at Piccadily station to go watch Wigan, or don't go to play at Mayfield or St.Annes or Eccles etc. It ignores the decline in the game from 1950 when Salford, Swinton, Oldham and Belle Vue Rangers (Manchester BTW) were all top 20 clubs. Manchester Rangers are a vibrant ARL club. What better way to utterly destroy them than professionalise them? They can become the new Trafford Borough (location greater Manchester population 233,000) who used to fight Nottingham and Chorley for the wooden spoon before "crowds" as bad as 177. Of course soccer is a different and inferior game, RL is more vibrant and all we need is to harness the people who prefer something different, something better. We tried this in soccer towns like Doncaster and we tried this in Sheffield and despite some "highs" like Dons promotion to Division One in 1994 and Eagles Wembley win in 1998 (achieved on the back of wholly imported teams) their decades of struggle (virtually no amateur game and 600 crowds) are there for all to see. Please do not kill the excellent Manchester Rangers ARLFC. Please consider Oldham and their rich history, consider St.Annes, Waterhead and Saddleworth strong local amateur clubs with juniors (not forgetting Rochdale Mayfield), if we are wanting to see RL build it's strength then the dream should be a decent stadium for the Oldham club, and a drive to revive the club to it's former glories and status. As our strong historical foundations crumble it is sheer folly to keep wanting to go and build RL elsewhere on foundations of sand in places that are deserts for Rugby league......
  10. TWP next season

    I’m sure he would not like me, probably because I have never swallowed his nonsense. But please do grow up a little here. I’m all for Toronto continuing, it’s just that they need to change their policy to line up with Mr. Moore and his sensible idea of setting up a North American league and developing players in North America which is real expansion......Simple as. I suspect you were just greedy for instant success. Enjoy the "hard yards" my friend..... Again no need for another spiteful post Scotchy. Toronto’s “ambition and enthusiasm” can still see them become the leading club in Mr. Moore’s North American league. Whilst SL may reject them as Leigh's old championship team in "wolf's clothing", they can probably still hang around the championship and change their policy to recruiting North Americans which is actually the real issue here isn't it?. That the USA decided to take a squad full of genuine USA players to the World cup to face the might of PNG, Fiji and an Italian side based on antipodean heritage players was a brave thing to do. Now TWP and Argyle post Perez, need to be brave enough to recruit more North Americans and take a long term view on their development. If they do this they will make many friends, if they carry on being arrogant then that will just cause the kind of friction we are starting to see on this very thread. “Run with the home grown players”……
  11. TWP next season

    Then re-consider perhaps? Noble wrote in February’s 40/20 about Rimmer’s recent press statement (that could only have been sanctioned by the SL clubs) that “It’s not certain if TWP qualify for promotion we would automatically achieve it, there might be more hurdles to jump”. Mr. Perez talked big in the summer of 2016 to Dave Woods about how young Canadian athletes would be quickly converted from College Football to RL and that if anything TWP would be supplying players here (look it up it’s on you tube). Instead he pulled the worst stunt possible before Christmas and axed home grown Jacks and Dempsey for three more ex-Leigh stars. This is the core issue, Canadian RL has not been a success since it re-emerged in 2010, all that has happened is the legacy Beaumont and Rowley created, of one of the best championship teams we have had, being shipped over to Toronto en masse. The alleged attendances are not the issue, we require the success of more quality players emerging in Canada. Anyway Perez has now walked out on the club, and the club has made little effort since, decamping here for convenience rather than finding an alternate venue in Toronto, leaving their merchandise starved fans behind. It doesn’t take too much detective work to find proof of the problem. Poor Nobby has been left with the baby and if you trace his movements he put Ngwati into the Bulls academy, and signed some sort of agreement with Manchester met student RL that again just relied on the promise of all these Canadian Athletes coming over. The lack of player development is an obvious massive hurdle. But the biggest hurdle of all has arrived just this week in the form of Jason Moore who is to put on the 2025 World cup. He wants to “Increase the quality of Canadian and American Rugby League” with more “Playing stock and better athletes playing the game” and he envisages this this with a North American league of 8-10 clubs. When asked about Toronto he said he had not spoken to them and in any case they “had a completely different strategy” to his own. Perez’s ridiculous “Transatlantic” league strategy, killing clubs here and shipping our players there, has now been shot down, so they should not be buying more English pro's Harry. The far more sensible idea of building an American league with home grown players and no doubt help from ourselves here, whilst we retain our English Superleague is on the agenda. If Toronto wish to stay alive then they need to align with Mr. Moore, not upset SL, and remain in the Championship, and start giving chances to Canadian and American players win or lose, over the coming years. Equally Canadian fans on here should stop their Perez is god, and transatlantic nonsense, and rally to Mr. Moore and push their club towards staying in the Championship for now before bcoming the first entry to that American League. They should call for the Dempsey's, Jack’s and Ngwati’s to be playing for TWP, they should push their club to sign more Americans and Canadians regardless of results. I am sure ALL fans here would really appreciate it…..
  12. (1) I would rule it out. (2) I know because Perez promised this in 2016, read on................ Because Perez said to Dave Woods that is what they would do in 2016. He said he was “organising a massive TV deal” in an 8 city “search for talent” in which they would audition candidates from the “hundreds of thousands of super athletes who had gone through college,” the best would only need a “little bit of upskilling” to be able to play RL. He also in that interview had the audacity to suggest to Woods that this would mean Toronto would be able to supply players to clubs here!!!!!!!!!. So Woods pushed him on Canadians in the TWP and he said that would be good, so Woods pushed further asking when Perez felt he may be able to have an all Canadian side. At that point he backed off and said that it didn’t really matter where players come from as the fans were not bothered. This is the problem, people don’t look these things up. The interview is still on You Tube, take a look and listen to all his big talk,(and no action) that people on here are still in awe of. Dave Woods in October reported Perez as saying “We are looking to make Super League the most commercially viable competition, apart from the Premiership, that plays in the northern hemisphere. To do that you need to have more North American markets, at least five or six clubs in the next 10 years" That needs either Perez to find 150 -180 pro quality players from North America, or for the five to six NA clubs to shunt out clubs here and take their 150-180 players from here. This is just more big talk and does not represent a coherent business plan. The former is impossible as he’s not done anything as regards player development despite big promises, the latter will kill the game here. The idea he’s created a success at TWP and has now moved on to Hamilton to create another success is laughable. Meanwhile Nobby is sweating on Rimmer’s suggestion TWP cannot expect automatic promotion, which is why the wholly unacceptable Manchester Met uni plan has been rushed together. University RL is for lads to have a social game of RL on Wednesday’s. It's not for developing professionals and this simly smacks of desperation. As Perez goes missing, Mr. Moore dismisses Toronto and talks of his own American based league (see the latest 40/20 magazine) which is an even bigger nail in TWP’s coffin.
  13. Who is pouring in the £Millions into our sport?? What TWP "pour in" they spend on themselves and our players. As for New York their level of investment which is under question and examination would be for themselves and again to buy our players. In the end you do what most people do and assume untold riches will be poured into the development of the game. There is absolutely no sign of this , the £1.9M and more for a "marquee player" TWP declared they could spend was all for them to spend on themselves. Come back to me when they open multi-£Million player academies over there. The first thing Perez ever said (to Dave Woods) was he would convert "superathletes" from the college system into RL players. It never happened. Of course competition is a bad thing when resources are limited, clubs relegated from SL end up being devastated. Your "New clubs" seek to come in and get promotion and displace our clubs here. How do relegated clubs "Raise their standards" when they end up losing their SL funding and academies? Mate, this is just a slogan and there are too many of them on here. It's time to actually work through how a transatlantic league can work when the North American Half don't have any players to offer the sport, and won't have them for years if ever?? Lets not dodge the tough questions with meaningless slogans Not very well which is a great point, it shows how hard it is to get new leagues going with all the problems of funding, finding decent players, investment and adequate fanbases. League in North America will face all the same problems and much more inc. a lack of RL players there, and a lack of interest in English clubs. It really is time to stop wetting ourselves over TWP and repeating the hype Perez fed us. Remember Perez has now walked out and has not been heard of. Poster boy Fogerty left. TWP failed to bother with merchandise this year, and it is said they have not paid bills (see RLfans). Perez told Woods he had two bids for screening TWP matches but it appears there was no such paying contract? No college grid iron converts happened as above. Then we have the allegations that the crowd levels they state are incorrect (a big thread on here). They have not used an alternative ground for the season opening but have have de-camped here. The prestige Toulouse game won't be played over there where it stood to be a big attraction. Three players threw their career away with TWP, and the thumping at London showed them for what they now are, just another English Championship club with English players playing in England. Until they get their act together, and until the clubs, the big commercial money, and the superathlete college players Perez forecast would flow actually come about, I will judge them on the realities, and you and everyone else should do that too and stop repeating the meaningless Perez hype all the time, as though that is some sort of proof of anything. I suggest you watch the original interview with Woods......
  14. This will cost us Superleague places for English clubs, and cost us the loss of academies at the clubs who make way for the North Americans. Are you oblivious to the fact that Perez wants North American clubs to replace English clubs in Superleague. You may have had a point if Perez had proposed that these clubs play in the championship until they start to produce players, but that is not the case. As for “their own league” it’s clear they prefer to take over our own league. The point is they DO NOT want to play. RL was around in North America years ago, but in the end the North americans all wanted to play Rugby Union. There are 3.000 union clubs and 227,000 registered Union players already converted to Union in North America.They don't want to play league which is why TWP are full of Leigh rejects. You could not be more misguided.... You make the ultimate point on this matter Jim. RL was introduced to NA by GB touring sides returning from Aussie tours in 1928 (Canada) and 1954 (USA) however Rugby Union was the game the continent took to (see above for the number of RU clubs and players). This makes the place a barren wasteland as you say, TWP and NY may provide a slim chance for North Americans to see the light but Rugby Union there has beaten them to it and is about to launch their own professional league. They are smart enough to recognise the League challenge. The NY union side are set to go head to head with the NY league side 2019, and Ontario Arrows RUFC are set to challenge TWP. Given that all the Rugby Lovers in North America love Union, league has no chance....
  15. That's up to them, but effectively the club as a pro-entity ended when they were refused entry to SL in 2000. The issue is money and all Hunslet do is swallow it up for no return. Take a walk from the club down the road and around the corner and you come across Hunslet Parkside and Hunslet Warriors. Both produce professional players and thus have far more value and importance to the game. It's so easy to extol the virtues of every club we have, something we have all done for nigh on 40 years since Fulham started the expansion of modern RL. It's as if no "true" RL fan could ever suggest the exclusion of any RL club no matter how small, they are after all "part of the "family". Mo Lyndsay's condemnation of Chorley won him no fans, just accusations of heresy. The fact is in that 40 years we have failed to achieve any real growth at all outside the M62. £200M was our best ever TV deal, but all the signs are that we won't be getting that again so of course there has to be rationalisation and the targeting of funds into clubs who produce a return. I suppose it's likening RL to a company of chain stores in which several have to be closed and the limited investment put in to the ones with the better staff and higher customer levels. This is business, we are a business and we don't want to go out of business. My old mate Pom wants names named so he can swoop on the exclusion of any one club. "You can't exclude Hemel, they produced Dan Sarginson, they've been flying the flag down south for decades". This is sentiment not business. I readily admit when I try to pick the 20 some of the necessary exclusions would be heart breaking. I came to the conclusion 24 may be the better figure, but Mighty Mick Gledhill now suggests 28 is the revision. Even at that the indignance will be "what happens to the other 12 then" but that is NOT the point, the point is what happens to the whole game if there is less jam tomorrow and it is spread too thinly - let the sentimentalists on here answer that Mr. Pom? Anyway the going is getting VERY tough and it makes sense to rationalise things, it makes sense to realise that the expansion dream is over and Union have us stitched up outside the M62, London and South West France, it really is time to switch to "survival mode".......