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The Parksider

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  1. Why bother replying then? Owls tells me in reply that "has not the name Toronto Wolfpacks given the game some great publicity". Really - did he not watch TWP's petulant display that ruined their terrestrial TV game at Warrington on the BBC that could have given them a major boost?, did he not hear of the racist remarks of their chairman just last week? "Great publicity"?? What a joke. When it comes to the "positives" as regards TWP there aren't any, and as for the slogan "Rugby Balls in kids hands" all those rugby balls were Union ones and you know it. Once again the $Billionaire is simply not developing any grassroots whatsoever, go back to 2016 and read the Perez plan. It did not involve junior development as Canada has no infrastructure for it anyway. You need development officers, the schools playing the game, you need amateur clubs running junior sections, you need parents to administer and coach all this and they are just not there, and the Billionaire is not interested anyway. The only people interested in RL at TWP just want to turn up on a matchday, get boozed up and cheer on an English club in North American Jerseys. There is still a junior RL game in Widnes and an infrastructure for it with Widnes academy mid table. Yes Salford abandoned the academy but why is this a reason to allow TWP not to bother either? These empty contrived replies are unnecessary so give us all a rest here and don't bother replying next time. On the Salford issue there was a plan to revive the academy with a joint effort with Leigh, whose owner wants to invest in the game again including a return to SL and a push on junior development/academy but can't do so because Argyle is swamping his championship mercenaries with so much money that Leigh can't compete which shows you the sort of damage a Transatlantic league would do to the game here. Money is only a good investment if invested in the right things. Like junior development Mr. Argylle. It could be tough because the Salford academy closed with the owner taking a view that not enough talent was being produced in Lancashire to justify academies at Wigan. St.Helens, Warrington Widnes AND Salford. Only 1 or 2 per 100 of the annual influx of junior players were making the grade. Just goes to show that if we struggle to get those "Rugby Balls in kids hands" here, there is no way we can afford to have the kids who make it here go off to North America to play for what would be predatory North American SL clubs. But they don't exist thank heavens, all we have is a rich Aussie and his plaything "club".........
  2. No that started in 2010 when Perez revived grass roots RL in Canada. If you just did a bit of research you would know Canada RL has been struggling for 10 years to get people playing the game, that's the fact of the matter The post is disingenuous as above Perez re-started grass roots in Canada in 2010 so let's judge the suggestion on the facts and these two teams aren't the start of grass roots development, that came 10 years ago they are just playing some Rugby league as some Canadians do. That's nice but that's all. It's not a landmark in the history of the game. You give yourself away here as you clearly want to make out this bit of RL being played now "ticks the box" for one of the two criteria that Superleague want TWP to pass for entry to Superleague. You also play the same daft game of inventing criteria. That the press reflect there is a Canadian club in the RFL is publicity, but that doesn't put a single penny in the coffers of Superleague nor produces a single pro-player to add to the player pool Same again. You invent your own criteria for giving TWP a tick towards SL entry. Disingenuous stuff again. They need to find paying TV contracts and TWP need to formally engage RL development officers and set up facilities around Toronto to get a real player development system going. But the real news is Argyle chooses not to. The reason he does that is he's 58 years old and he can see Canada RL is going nowhere. He'd be in his 80's before Canada produced any SL players from a junior game there. And so the BAD news is that he doesn't support Canada RL. He wants Superleague next February.... This is a rather stupid reaction, it's about a guest club wanting to buy their way to Superleague, it could be Koukash's Liverpool and it would just be the same nonsense. "Replacing Leeds" IS however the point. Why would Superleague replace member clubs who develop players, member clubs who underpin a TV deal and take away fans to games with a rich mans vanity project that offers nothing, TWP and any more NA clubs offer only damage to the pro game here, and a logistical nightmare up to Easter.......For what? your personal pleasure? Because they can't answer my points, but they want to hold the coats of those who try to do so. Anyway thanks for your support but.... I need you back off the fence over your 14 club Superleague suggestion. It appears you would like to give TWP a chance in Superleague to prove themselves? The problem here is that what they need to prove is that they can develop professional players and you are of the opinion this could take 20 years. What they need to prove is they can add to the TV deal and even Perez said there could be no paying deal from NATV unless superleague went Transatlantic. So I appreciate your honesty about the idea of giving them a go, but to exactly what ends? Plus do the SL bosses feel this is a tenable stance? They have already stated they feel TWP are a fake "English team re-badged as North American" . Do the SL clubs lose their third games against rival clubs to accommodate this, does SKY then lose valuable TV games such as a third Saints.v.Wigan game? They needs these third big games to show on TV to people who actually pay for dishes... Does the quality of the teams suffer as 60 sub-standard players are poured into the pool? I think so? Whilst Argyle can buy Marquee players to try to avoid the bottom spots do some very valuable clubs here risk going into decline if they end up 13th and 14th. in this league? Is TWP swanning around 10th place with no TV deal and no American players for the next 20 years constitute the success of the American dream for you?? Argyle is the only asset they have yet your plan will not benefit anyone here only Argyle. Then what happens when Ottawa, encouraged by TWP promotion spend a pile of money on players from here and then they want in even though they ALSO have no TV deal and no player development?
  3. Nobody is arguing against that. The argument isn’t about whether we should embrace Canadian RL, it is purely about whether clubs like TWP should take Super league places. You need to stop jumping to conclusions, think about what is being said, and stop being the hard man behind a bedroom keyboard and a false name. In year two of TWP do you think it was “positive” that Ryan Burroughs. Joe Eichner and Tom Dempsey who are quality North American RL players should have been sacked by Mr. Argyle? Don’t duck this question with insults man. Think about it. I posted long ago in support of TWP using their guest position in the Championship to sit there at the second level of Northern Hemisphere RL and concentrate hard on being open to anybody across that continent to go along to TWP and try out for a pro contract. I urged the club to value people like Quin Ngwati and accept that their membership of the Championship here was about developing the North American game and not sacking North American players, not bothering to think about Junior development, but just buy in the best players $$Billionaire Argyle could pay to realise his personal dream. It may be, I do not know, that Perez left because of this. If it was, fair play to Perez but he has to stop talking rubbish about North America saving the game here. The reason I fell out with NA RL fans on this site, is that none of them were really interested in Canadian development, they were all behind Argyle buying an English/Aussie squad and taking them to Superleague as soon as possible. Think man….. For goodness sake open your mind to reality and accept the criteria for entry to Superlague is what Suprerleague state it is and what Mr. Perez agrees it is. The development of new quality players and a NATV contract to share amongst the clubs. The criteria you use are irrelevant, Argylle can simply write a cheque worth x100 times the things you state are “positives”. Your so desperate to realise your pipedream (that may end in tears – remember the farce of Wire stuffing a petulant TWP last year) you invent any old garbage. TWP have a chance of promotion (dependant on SL bosses say so), but the only thing that could drive that is a $$Billionaires wallet. There is nothing else of any value at all in Canada at this time, that justifies booting out of SL an English club in return.... That's what people all forget, put a manufactured club in SL and remove a proper one that develops players and helps underpin SKYTV and it's a minus.
  4. Absolutely!! I didn't fall for the Perez garbage. He's a smart salesman who tells people what they want to hear, so when I pointed this out, people didn't like it so they pretty much threw abuse at me daily on here, and as you can see above people like "DKW" chase after me from the anonymity of their bedroom keyboards. He's probably a decent guy in "real life". I say that because this whole North American thing is a fantasy, it's not real. You yourself talk about a difference of "opinion", but do you not realise that there are some actual facts here which over ride "opinion". Perez tried to revive grassroots RL in Canada in 2010. He had six years at it and failed in the face of union dominance . He then met Argyle an Aussie Billionaire who fancied his own club and they decided to pitch an idea that Canada would fall in love with RL if only these boys were allowed to run a Canadian club in our leagues here which rich Canadians would want to copy and TV companies there would lap up the resultant Transatlantic league and throw TV contracts at us. Not true. From the start the requirement was not for Perez to just buy a squad of players from here but develop his own hence the "Grid iron player" conversion plan (go on you Tube and look up backchat special "Dave Woods meets Eric Perez" where he floats this idea). That failed miserably. He didn't convert a single one. As it stands today Perez is nearly ten years on trying to get Canada to play RL but nobody there wants to know, and as for "Rich Canadians" or big contracts from American TV companies there wanting to invest, there aren't any. The phoney TWP club PAY the TV companies to be on TV. The whole thing is factually a complete failure. If you disagree on the basis "I would say that wouldn't I" then consider the Superleague Chairman's view that the TWP expansion plan is nothing more than "dressing up squads of players from here in American jerseys" . The bottom line is too many people on here invested too much personal hope and belief that this was the breakthrough our game craved, fair enough..... But it isn't hence the shoot the messenger stuff!
  5. I agree with Gubrats, I could even say we could go to 16 clubs and top him. That would not be a problem in terms of finding the 16, the problem is watering down the playing rosters, thus reducing the quality and intensity of the league which would threaten the SKY contract. I don't see a hard headed reason to do this especially with phoney clubs who won't add anything to the game here. It would be good if we could get Widnes or Bradford back, add Toulouse for the French derby and talk to the rich owner at Newcastle and see if he's up for taking Superleague there. Even talk to Argyle and see if he wants Superleague with London Skolars. There are at least five clubs who could make Superleague a bigger and better place if only we had the players. One can dream...... Well excuse me!! I'm not the one making up "Los Angeles and Vancouver", I'm not making up baloney about "grid iron conversions" or all we need is "six NA clubs in SL and NATV will give us $$Billions" or "TWP are partnering with CRU to develop RL players". One of my favourites was when Perez/Argyle said they were "going to look at China" for athletes who may convert to RL and hey - what about the old chestnut of "making up the crowds" at Lamport? You couldn't make it up but your two heros do it big time Player development is in the schools in these places, in the community where people are steeped in RL and want to get involved with the kids and the amateur game there, in the championship sides that people and their kids go watch, and who do their bit to promote the game etc etc. To pretend that players are not attracted to the game and developed to play the game in East Hull and Leigh or wherever the town has a championship club is total rubbish/a contrivance. It's not until they are teenagers standing out for their amateur clubs, that they THEN begin a journey to Superleague. In order to carry on your long unbending contrived arguments each with the cherry on top of a "long word you read in the dictionary" you have to go to some extraordinary bending of the truth to get there. I've checked your potted CV and you claim to be a big player in Welsh Amateur Rugby League. If that is so why do you react to my post in such a childish fashion fishing for "Like this" smileys from the dreamers? Aren't you actually interested in a debate?
  6. You have a point, but there is a reason I regularly point out that if a club doesn't produce any players or underpin a paying TV deal then it's not expanding the game, and if that sort of club replaces SL clubs here and drags the others 3,000 miles away for games it's heavily detrimental to clubs here, especially those relegated to make way, and that reduces interest in RL here and increases costs and decreases revenue to the game. The reason is up to 20 people on here incessantly post that these sort of clubs are the future of the game and will bring the game great riches, and save it's hide. For every fact filled post about North America I do (about 5 a week) Myself and fellow realists get about five a day, in return telling us with no evidence whatsoever North America is the future. You appear Moove to be almost "Mooving" into the ugly arenas of hippocracy and censorship. No. It was clear in 2014, 14 clubs were not working as London collapsed on the pitch and Bradford could no longer compete, then after dropping to 12 clubs Wakefield also collapsed on the pitch. We considered cutting to 10 quality clubs at that time and things have not got better. TWP are of no value to SL or SKY anyway so no point diluting Superleague for nothing in return is there? I agree with you, but we must as you know sell the best quality product to SKY, so we cannot water down the talent in clubs. In 2014 it was confirmed we had to drop to 12 and even 10 clubs was suggested at the time as better for providing quality games for SKY. Then in 2017 Superleague looked to take "SL1" to 10 clubs defeated by the Championship. This year SL (as confirmed by McManus & Pearson) are talking a French Derby whilst confirming TWP are of no value. So its probably 12 again. Another terrible post from you born out of contrivance or ignorance - you choose? The pro and semi pro M62 clubs are all the pinnacle of the RL set up's we have in town's and cities across the M62 (as I type this isn't aimed at you, just putting the bent record straight) and of course fantastic RL players have been brought up and schooled in Leigh and East Hull for well over 100 years now. Where the best end up plying their trade depends on where the best money ultimately is, but it's thoroughly ridiculous to suggest that M62 clubs who do not run academies somehow have nothing to do with local people playing the game in the first place. I'll leave it to others to name some of the brilliant players to come out of East Hull and Leigh......
  7. 1. I've told you. This news is being used to pretend there is a player development system in Canada now so everything is fine now and TWP can roll into Superleague followed by Ottawa. 2. If you want to debate with me then why join in with the baying crowd? You have no idea. I have supported every GB and French expansionist effort that ever existed since Fulham and got massive stick on here for three years for a deep support of Celtic Crusaders and Welsh expansion. You haven't met the real anti-expansionists yet. Crusaders really did expand the game in Britain and the junior development was fantastic. The WRL put up details of all the new junior clubs on their website and a poster called Swansea Jack used to tell us about it as IIRC he refereed junior games. 3. You have missed 90% of the debate and 20 posters on here are all for North American clubs marching into Superleague, have you not read the myriad of posts condemning the "Useless M62 clubs" They even name them they are Castleford, Wakefield, Salford, Widnes, HKR and Huddersfield whom people call "Village clubs". Have you not looked up the Perez plan where he says we need six NA clubs in Superleague to get a North American TV deal. How utterly wrong could you be? 4. They paint me as anti-expansionist to be able to deride me, and you have fallen for that one and joined in. Do you not realise that when this started "Expansion" was defined between TWP & Perez and the RFL as TWP "expanding the player pool and the TV deal" All TWP have done is expand the travel distances clubs have to make. They have failed to produce a single NA player (the one's they had they sacked) or a single TV dollar. They pay to be on TV. That's not expansion is it? 5. They can compete, 4 NA players were part of the TWP squad that took them to the Championship. Those lads could still be playing in the championship, I think a couple were internationals. What you miss is Argyle isn't interested in player development his (lack of)actions speak louder than his words. 6. There is NO pro player development in NA but there is just enough here for a 12 club Superleague and a Big TV contract. As Pearson and McManus said NA clubs do not underpin the SKY contract so we cannot have NA clubs shipping 30 players out from here and "putting them in American jerseys" do you not get what they are saying? That's not expansion...... 7. You don't speak for "most people" nor do I but it's clear most fans of Huddersfield, HKR, Widnes, Bradford, Cas, Wakey, and Fartown do not want six North American clubs taking their players and condemning their clubs to the Championship. Why then would these clubs run academies just to send the best to North America? Why would the fans want to buy SKY subscriptions any more? Would English fans welcome TWP, Ottawa New York? They were stone cold on London, Celtic Crusaders and Catalans when they first visited Headingley? 8. Finally you don't speak for me and so far you don't even listen, you just follow the mob, but if you care to listen and not tell me what I think then my stance is we blew the chance to make this great game national when we failed to accommodate Welsh expansion in the 1900's. Since then we have become a strong "regional game" in which nearly all our clubs have roots back to Victorian times, and deep roots now in their communities. You start exchanging those clubs for phoney clubs and you kill the game here. TWP in Leeds out? It's up to you if you want a proper conversation.......I mostly get insults
  8. No "we" can't be instructed collectively to respond positively en masse in this way. This is a great example of the thought police attitude on here that only one view must prevail. For your pleasure I will say that this is indeed great news just as it would be if a couple of new kids teams started along the M62. However that would not be a headline thread/story on here would it?. That's because this news is being trumpeted in my view If you and others will allow it, as an excuse to shut down any debate on the lack of professional player development in North America. It's just worth being clear that a bit of junior development is wonderful but that won't help the problem that if we remove English clubs for North American clubs who ship the relegated English squads to North America, it will break up the game and development here. And so here we go again. If I remind people getting carried away over a couple of kids teams, someone has to come in and have a go at me personally suggesting I'm someone out on a limb who actually hates the idea of growth in our game and any "Johnny Foreigners" playing it. Why would I not wish them well? It is certainly worth reminding people AGAIN and especially you, who is obviously oblivious to the facts that if your a North American RL player of some talent the TWP do not want you as all the North Americans in the TWP squad were sacked off after year one - did you not know that?. As great as it is that we see a bit of development under the auspices of Canada RL, it wasn't great when Argyle ignored them and the chance to sign up when they ran a tent at a TWP game. Did you not know that either?? So it may help you that although we all think it's great kids are trying RL in Canada this is no reason to infer that the lack of pro-player development in Canada is now no longer a problem. It's a massive problem Mr Argyle doesn't care about.......... So go have a go at him?
  9. It's not "fair enough" at all. Let's not forget they had four North American players in the squad first season then they sacked them off. The grid iron idea was for instant conversions to RL because a grass roots game would take 20 years to mature as we all virtually agree, and probably another 20 years before TWP became self sufficient in players. However that would be dependant on being able to compete with North American Rugby Union for the best Rugby kids which is unlikely. Outside the M62 we can't compete with Union at Junior level. So across the Northern Hemisphere it's only along the M62 that any significant numbers of quality Pro RL players can be developed. And before anyone conveniently forgets, the Transatlantic plan was to have six North American clubs come into Superleague to get to enough North American content to find a NA TV deal. Now this doesn't work, because dumping English clubs from Superleague will stop SKY giving us another TV deal. Plus dumping Pro clubs out of SL here will mean they won't run their player development systems here for the benefit of North American clubs who pushed them out. Good luck to the kids now having a go at Rugby League in Canada but this changes nothing. The propose "expansion" plan doesn't work without an expanded player pool coming in now not in 20 years. Someone who should be neutral suggested I was moaning again, about issues like this but the reality is that this NA expansion plan doesn't work as the SL bosses candidly pointed out. I would like to see some in depth analysis of this in the RL media, with various higher profile people than me like Managers, CEO's coaches etc openly analysing and discussing the Transatlantic plan in some depth. We shouldn't hide from discussing reality.
  10. Well your the one with the north american "Agenda" which you tireless wave in everyone's faces. As for the "potential shown" TWP came along shouting about how they would produce players and bring new TV deals to the table, so for once in your life look up that 2016 Woods/Perez interview up and tell me how many TV $$$ and how many players they have added? No, don't bother as I know you will duck it like you and the other dreamers have done for nearly 3 years. Fact is TWP sacked their North American players and actually pay money to get themselves on TV. So where is the potential? Are you making it up? Perez pretends he's moved on to Ottawa after building the "great success" of, as Superleague bosses say "Putting relegated teams from here in North American jerseys" so how far do you want that to go?? Perez wanted six English SL clubs to make way for these dreamed up clubs as the price for obtaining a NA TV contract (which the clown should have known would kill the SKY deal), and yet your people tell me that as nobody in NA has heard of places like Warrington, St.Helens, Hull, Wigan or Castleford even those English clubs left will have to go. Face it man it's all phoney baloney big talk which when challenged nobody in your "focus group" can defend logically, only shout insults or press ignore buttons. Another laughable angle is TWP beer and TWP cannabis oil. Peddling this rubbish has led to people swooning at how brilliant the TWP business model is "multiple income streams". Wake up and smell the coffee the costs of staging transatlantic games are Massive with all the flights, accommodation, catering, etc and the lack of income with wedges of free tickets letting fans in for nowt. If Argyle hadn't been a $Billionaire and had taken out a bank loan to start TWP as a business he would be bankrupt and destitute living in a tent with Kayakman. Jason Moore of Moore sports was sent to North America to promote the World cup and he called the phoney baloney TWP out. The reaction to the RL World cup was tepid and fell at the first hurdle with "Moore" losses. Can you not grasp that the real life attempt to get Rugby league going in North America was a massive financial failure as is TWP without Argylles $$$Billions. As for Argyles 25% stake in Skolars, Perez leaving TWP and now this incident in which Argyle seems to be standing down from actively running his club or being it's public face, it's anyone's guess what is going on. Add to that negative comments from SL bosses about the American dream and the whole thing is a pathetic mess/farce. Yet you and your ilk think it's the future It's actually you Damian that has an "Agenda" to peddle your dream that RL will spread all over the globe. Good luck to you and 19 mates on here with that whilst 100,000 RL fans here and in France continue to support their clubs and their game as it is warts and all.
  11. The validity of Canadian RL expanding our game is the question, it's a pathetic trick to try to make the question about me personally. You know full well I do not promote RU, I only reflect it is a massive success compared to RL in Canada, as much as I wish this was not the case. Once again you can't have a go at the proposal CRU is making great strides whilst Canada RL is Leigh rebadged as Toronto (superleagues view) so you try to discredit me instead. What I would like to see is Canada RL developing RL players from Grid Iron "pretty quickly" as Perez promised and thus expand the player pool so we can start thinking about two clubs from North America. Once that happens I'd like to see Canadian TV start to take interest and pay for some coverage, then we can take things from there. I would really like to see what Mr. Perez set out to achieve actually happening, But it has not happened, it has failed, which is sad. What I don't wan't to happen is the failure be declared a success and more phoney clubs buy up squads from here and displace genuine clubs in Superleague. This is because the genuine Professional English clubs underpin the SKY contract and develop players for the game. The more you replace them with phoney Canadian clubs the more the player development system suffers here, and the more the SKY contract is threatened. You two need to grow up a bit and accept reality that the American dream has failed, Rugby league develops players and wins TV contracts here in England with English clubs. We are stuck with that reality. What is your problem Gentlemen, are the dreams of what could be in your heads outweighing your ability to accept the reality Perez himself promised players and TV deals to expand the game but has failed to deliver?? Now you two answer my question - how will RL survive here if we simply allow NA clubs to just elbow out English clubs without contributing players or TV money??
  12. Their business plan was to aim for Superleague, but it was to get there with a player development programme and a TV deal which most transatlantic enthusiasts like to forget. You forget like others that SL bosses came out not so long ago and stated TWP would offer no new players, no TV money and a big headache scheduling matches up to Easter. The interview was far from "Fascinating" it was the usual free-ride in which Perez could predict and even promise anything for the future and he did this as usual. You must not forget that he and his like won't do interviews if they are going to get hard questions, or be questioned on their answers. This was made very clear by the League Express Journo's, this was very obvious in this interview with Perez constantly making vague promises of massive things down the line as he's done for years now.......Are such unchallenged boasts really fascinating my friend? 1. Yes I heard his phrase that TWP were "spinning plates whilst learning" which was meaningless rubbish to dismiss the hard question of his failure to develop players so where are the players going to come from - why do you naively accept these interview techniques for avoiding the hard questions? 2. Once again Perez was given a free ride to spout this breathtaking garbage in which he suggested Massive TV investors would by-pass Leeds, Saints, Wire, Wigan and Hull to go ahead with a Transatlantic league without them. As I say this interview was on condition Perez could talk about his hopes and aspirations, but they weren't to be challenged. Dave Woods did the Mascord/Wilkin interview and it was clear this was on condition no hard questions would be asked like how on earth can the game go forward without it's biggest clubs? Our game has no investigative journalists and doesn't need them, time will tell the truth, but the truth is the Perez Phoney Baloney just get's bigger and bigger. 3. What's next is whether the decision to admit Ottawa is fully confirmed, as opposed to being confirmed in principle (you heard anything??). Then we need to see if TWP win the promotion place and what do Superleague do then, as they would dearly want to keep Argyle, but keep him via London Skolars as opposed to TWP. Perez's tactic remains what it always was creating a massive myth that there is a fantastic opportunity for the game to explode around the "Northern hemisphere" which if the SL bosses reject they will get slaughtered in the sports press. But they do need to do this eventually as Dave Woods was clear (in one of the only "intriguing" comments) that the next TV deal will certainly be a lot smaller. I have a "Lowlight" from Perez's interview in which he said Rugby League would take off across Canada and North America amongst sports fans who would be attracted to the big hits in the game where players go without body armour and helmets, had I been interviewing I'd have asked Perez didn't he realise that 3,000 north American RU clubs and 150,000 registered north american RU players have already got there first Eric? No doubt he'd storm out and put me on the banned list, which is what some posters on here do with the ignore button.
  13. What do you mean "so what" . You go to Leeds and all the M62 games have the away following mainly camped on the Western Terrace. thousands of tickets are sold to these fans bringing in swathes of revenue as well as their spending on food and drink etc at the ground, and their presence creates a great atmosphere for both sets of fans. When TWP and Catalans come the crowds are much lower and the atmosphere all the poorer for it. Why do you make these ridiculous statements almost every other day? The clubs and the fans want to see and enjoy good away followings, and the much needed revenue they bring is important to the game. You also spectacularly miss that Les Catalans Toronto don't bring any TV deals to the table either. What is the value of these clubs who contribute no fans through the turnstyles here, and no French and Canadian TV money, and furthermore don't produce many players and have to blag them off our clubs. Why are you a stranger to the truth? There is no evidence whatsoever that clubs are not working at maximising their income streams, all that is happening here is M62 clubs are being badmouthed by people who want to find an argument for this silly transatlantic dream. Try this one........ What a silly self serving post this is merely designed to promote your daft expansion dreams. All your doing is declaring the clubs you want to see in SL as business geniuses, whilst dismissing those you want them to replace without a scrap of fact, evidence or logic. Toronto is a massive loss making venture, heavily subsidised and not a business, and if you think Wakefield are failing because they don't sell dreadnought bitter, or Huddersfield don't sell Fartown snake oil, then that's just crazy. Every time we get such self serving posts like this out come the genius business guru's on here agreeing that the clubs need to up their commercial game. You and your mates who have all the answers should be locked in a room with the people who actually have to do the hard yards on behalf of their clubs. Don't you lot get it that in this global world there is a massive pressure from all angles for people's lesiure pound and effective marketing costs money to undertake making it a difficult balance for any business. Finally you have the gall to suggest Elstone and the Chairmen need to "learn" from TWP and Cats, Are you mad? Do you not know just how successful most of our club chairmen have been in business? Why not look them up and look up the values of the companies they have built? What have you achieved? Who are you to bad mouth highly successful businesmen like this??
  14. Amazing that you start a thread with an admission you have done no research, despite it only taking minutes to do. In the 23 years of Superleague eight clubs have won the cup during a time when the professonalisation of the top league was always going to ensure those outside it could not compete for the Cup. But step back into the game of old pre-SL and you immediately get the utter boredom of Wigan winning the thing eight times in a row with nobody getting a look in. The facts do not seem to be your thing. Go back a full 23 years before 1996 and yes ten different clubs won the cup in the full 23 years before SL against eight since. That’s not a great difference and really has no relevance to the reality that times change and the Challenge cup was always the biggest game of the season by a country mile. Add to that it was the big weekend pilgrimage to Wembley of fans of all clubs many whom hadn’t won the cup in decades if at all. Of course the advent of the Grand final has reduced the prestige of the cup down a peg that again is obvious but count up the number of Grand final winners – there are only four of them yet the final is a compelling annual success year on year with “prestige” aplenty. So your idea that less clubs being able to compete for a trophy – your “variation” reduces the prestige of that trophy - is blown apart by the Grand Final in which those same four clubs are often the runners up as well!!! The importance of the Challenge cup is that it showcases clubs like Leeds, Wigan, Warrington, St. Helens, Hull and Bradford who are/have been our biggest clubs, with most of the star names in their teams to the general public across the reach of the BBC. There are thousands of RL fans out there who do not subscribe to SKY and it’s vital we get the exposure of the terrestrial BBC and although you may have had at times to suffer Leeds.v.Wigan or Saints five times in a season – as was the case in 2003 when Leeds played Bradford five times including the Challenge cup final – you’re not the point. The point was that top top clubs Leeds and Bradford slugged out the Cup final before 71,000 in Cardiff and before a massive terrestrial TV audience thus showcasing the game nationally. The real issue as regards the challenge cup is the swathes of empty seats that destroy the prestige of the game and makes it look like it’s terminal, and you ain’t going to solve that with Salford.v.Wakefield and certainly not Toronto.v.Toulouse. These games would destroy our “Prestige”.
  15. You sir have an open mind.........I dealt with this issue of "new areas" over two years ago and pointed out that there is massive interest in Rugby in North America. Problem is all unsuitable facts are filtered out of people’s minds and the same mind numbing mantra continues that RL is somehow taking off there. Rugby in North America involves 3,000 clubs and 200,000 players, only problem is, it’s all Rugby Union. And there you have it that Rugby certainly did “expand” in North America very successfully, so successfully in Canada it killed Rugby League there. All there is now is that clown Perez continuing to promise us the earth on the back of what SL bosses have pointed out as Aussie Argyle’s trick of “expanding” RL there by dressing up relegated English teams in North American jerseys. Union across the world know full well that it’s in competition with league despite Argyle denying this by pretending he’s great mates with the CRU and it doesn’t matter if he put’s “rugby balls in kids hands” even though they then play union with them. Union’s policy around the globe is to muscle out any League wherever it starts to grow, Lebanon being a great example, which you should note. But ultimately “disinterest” in RL comes about because people who have a penchant for playing and supporting team sports already have alternative interests to follow including “overseas”, that they know and love whether that is grid iron, soccer or rugby union. These sports have swallowed up the interest in people investing in, watching and playing these types of games which leaves the cupboard bare for Rugby league whether it’s in Liverpool (on topic), Sheffield, Ottawa or Beirut. All credit to you for engaging in debate which this site is set up for and not for snide personal remarks because some posters don't like their dreams being questioned.. I entirely agree with you that there are no boundaries keeping RL fans from outside a city coming in and as I say thousands of North Welsh fans descend on Liverpool fortnightly to follow Everton. But the point you make, you make only one way. If there are Rugby league fans in Liverpool it is entirely likely they will already be going to St. Helens for their RL fix and may have been going there for decades. The idea that Liverpool is currently not served by a pro-RL club is preposterous when it's only 10 miles from Liverpool centre to St.Helens centre. You make the case for there being no potential fanbase for a Liverpool club in that RL fans in Liverpool can get to St. Helens very easily enough and probably already do. The man behind the Liverpool RLFC idea Kooks took over a club in Salford and thought if he called it Manchester then People from Manchester would follow it. He didn't realise that Manchester people already DID follow it without needing it to be called Manchester, he further didn't realise that Salford people resented the Salford name being removed. It's a very very naive proposal that somehow the people of Liverpool are crying out for an RL club in any great number enough for it to be even financially viable............But Naivety is a word that goes hand in hand with expansion on here....
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