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scotchy1 last won the day on January 1

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  1. Leigh, Salford, Hull KR, Cas, Huddersfield, plus Widnes and Bradford. Im not making it a bigger issue than it is. The threat of relegation is the bigger issue and it affects far more clubs. However yo-yoing and the threat of it and the effect it has on promoted and relegated clubs is a separate and specific issue that within the P+R debate.
  2. We have had 22 clubs in SL, 7 of them have been affected by it, 2 needed protection from it with only 12 years with promotion and relegation. Thats pretty common. And it isnt just the threat of relegation, yo-yoing is a specific issue that threatens every club that comes up and affects how they respond to the challenges of promotion. And yes, the bigger worry is relegation and never coming back up, but thats why we have seen clubs overspending immediately to get back up, it affects how they respond to the challenges of relegation. It oscillates between threat and necessity.
  3. Bradford and Widnes didnt get back to the top, but it was the journey up that killed them. 4 clubs have been up and down during the SL era, Leigh, Cas, Salford and HKR, plus Widnes and Bradford fell at the final hurdle and went bust, Huddersfield would have done if not for the clubs below not meeting the standards and were eventually relegated when one did, which brings us to 7. Considering we have had only 12 seasons with a club(s) promoted and relegated thats not a particularly encouraging total. The problem with your argument is it ignores the club who had to over spend to avoid relegation and yo-yoing(like Wakefield) or clubs who overspent trying to yoyo (like Widnes) and the clubs who were rescued from yo-yoing by other circumstances (like Huddersfield and to a point Les Catalans and Celtic) the issue is not just the yo-yoing but the two sides of the coin that is the threat of yo-yoing and the necessity of doing so.
  4. WCC Scheduling

    I dont think Wigan and Hull undermined it. It think we allowed What Wigan and Hull are doing to undermine it with a lack of strategic planning. As soon as Wigan and Hull's mini Tour was agreed it should have been rolled up in to it, and the NRL and SL should have agreed that both finalists would play in Australia which would have have seen us go to a 4 match WCC. We could have even tried something like a mini magic weekend. We could have had them all at different stadia spread across 4 Australian cities. We could have snuck a mini 9s comp in there. There is a huge amount we can do with joined up thinking and by grasping the mettle. Rugby League never sees opportunities, only obstacles.
  5. Now that is a very narrow argument. Cas didn't go bust immediately so you can probably argue it wasn't catastrophic for them like it was say Widnes or even Bradford. But let's be honest. From being a case study in how to deal with it to not being immediatey catastrophic is quite a leap between the extremes. Was it catastrophic? No. Was it damaging for them? Quite obviously in my view. Did they ever look like escaping that vortex sucking them down? Not really. Was it good or even neutral for them? Quite obviously not in my view
  6. Yes it is. You are stating that Cas dealt with yo-yoing. They didnt. The thing which stopped them from being a yo-yo club was licensing. That is incontrovertible. Had there not been the introduction of licensing Cas would have been relegated. What would have happened after that is a total guess. We can speculate on the effect, positive or negative that licensing had from that point on but it doesn't alter the facts. We cannot look at Cas' position today as any sort of consequence of being a yo-yo club because between them being a yo-yo club and today there was a significant change that removed the possibility of being a yo-yo club. Where Was are now is an undeniable consequence of the introduction of franchising. Whether the continuation of p+R would have left them in a better or worse position is unknowable but it is an obvious fact that if we look st the experience of Cas the introduction of franchising worked.
  7. As we are also ignoring what happened to Bradford, Wakefield, Widnes, Sheffield, Halifax and numerous others outside that period. It isn't difficult to quantify at all. The introduction of licensing stopped the yo-yoing of Cas. It's incontrovertible.
  8. I agree. Introducing franchising helped rescue Cas from being a yoyo club and should be used as a case study for the future.
  9. They probably wouldn't have bought them.
  10. The future of sports broadcasting is something akin to a 'freemium' model. In my opinion. Terrestrial to gain new fans, pay-tv for the casual sports fans. A dedicated channel/platform for the hard-core fan. It also goes to show the importance of the CC and how we really need to address the issues it currently faces
  11. League Restructure 2019

    But they were relegated, not kicked out. The reason it happened doesnt change what happened.
  12. League Restructure 2019

    Were Bradford and London kicked out or were they relegated? Widnes finished in a relegation place, that is the simple and ONLY reason they didnt play in SL next year. Similarly, the singular and only reason that Fev, Wakefield, Hull et al didnt play in Super League 1 is that they didnt qualify, they werent good enough, because they werent better than Bradford, Cas, Halifax, Leeds, Saints, Wigan, Oldham, Warrington or Whitehaven. You are propagating the idea that these clubs had this done to them. They didnt, they did it to themselves. That it is something theirs being taken from them. That simply isnt true. Every single club whether in league 1 or SL, whether they are 100 years old or the twinkling of an idea in the mind of a billionaire are entirely and completely the masters of their own destiny, they are entirely and completely in control of their future. As it always was.
  13. League Restructure 2019

    There is nothing about semantics and nothing dishonest in there Dave and its embarrassing for you to try and hide behind that.
  14. League Restructure 2019

    By definition, nobody was kicked out of SL to form SL. They obviously couldnt be, it didnt exist. Some clubs didnt qualify for SL because they didnt finish high enough, none were kicked out. Widnes were no more kicked out of SL than London or Bradford were. In all the examples you have given it was decided on the pitch, something the people who are nervous are absolutely insisting on. Its a huge contradiction to complain about the clubs who were promoted to SL and the clubs who relegated from SL as an argument against franchising. But it does strengthen my point. Widnes werent kicked out for Les Catalans they were relegated. Fev, Hull, Wakefield et al werent kicked out for Paris and London, they didnt qualify for it. There is no reason to pretend these clubs have no agency, that they have no control. There is a reason that nobody is thinking that Wigan might be under threat, there is a reason nobody is suggesting Saints might be for the chop and it isnt fortune or luck. If there is a move to franchising the clubs who dont make it wont have had that done to them, they wont make it because of what they have done (or failed to do)
  15. League Restructure 2019

    Which clubs have we kicked out of the top flight? Your hypothetical misses an important point of why those clubs have been kicked out. There is no need to ever kick out a club to make room for an expansion club. It's a red herring to justify not expanding. Nobody ever suggests there is any kind if real threat that a strong successful club is going to be kicked out or a stable and growing club is going to be kicked out. Nobody even suggests an ambitious and well backed club will be kicked out...