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East Coast Tiger

Clubs chasing loop hole players

46 posts in this topic

Ads from this week's RLCM

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Workington seek players for 2011

Workington Town UK are seeking Australian, New Zealand and Pacific Island players for the 2011 season. Workington Town play in National League 2 in England. Players must have European birthright, passports or Kolpac players [Fiji, Tonga, Samoa]. Interested players please contact Coach Gary Charlton susancharlo@aol.com with details and playing experience.

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South Wales Scorpions

The South Wales Scorpions are looking for British qualified players via ancestry or are passport holders and or alternatively European passport holders from Australia, New Zealand and the Pacific Islands to send in playing c.v's for review to the South Wales Scorpions for the 2011 season.

The Scorpions are a brand new club who are in their first season in the professional ranks based in South Wales competing in the English Championship One competion playing games against the likes of Oldham, Workington, Swinton and are currently in a play-off position in their debut season and are looking to strengthen in 2011.

The Scorpions are looking at recruiting three players from the southern hemisphere for the 2011 season. Only players with QLD Cup, Toyota Cup,NSW Cup or Bundaberg Red Cup will be reviewed. We are looking for a half, centre/backrower and a front rower.

Contact

Anthony Seibold

South Wales Scorpions, Head Coach

anthony.seibold@cymrurl.com

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It seems hard to believe clubs feel the need to do this, especially really small budget clubs like these. What it suggests to me is that so long as there are loop holes for any club at any level they will abuse them to bring in Australian and NZ players. The only way to stop it is to tighten the rules right up at all levels.

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Ads from this week's RLCM

______________________________________________________________

Workington seek players for 2011

Workington Town UK are seeking Australian, New Zealand and Pacific Island players for the 2011 season. Workington Town play in National League 2 in England. Players must have European birthright, passports or Kolpac players [Fiji, Tonga, Samoa]. Interested players please contact Coach Gary Charlton susancharlo@aol.com with details and playing experience.

_______________________________________________________________

South Wales Scorpions

The South Wales Scorpions are looking for British qualified players via ancestry or are passport holders and or alternatively European passport holders from Australia, New Zealand and the Pacific Islands to send in playing c.v's for review to the South Wales Scorpions for the 2011 season.

The Scorpions are a brand new club who are in their first season in the professional ranks based in South Wales competing in the English Championship One competion playing games against the likes of Oldham, Workington, Swinton and are currently in a play-off position in their debut season and are looking to strengthen in 2011.

The Scorpions are looking at recruiting three players from the southern hemisphere for the 2011 season. Only players with QLD Cup, Toyota Cup,NSW Cup or Bundaberg Red Cup will be reviewed. We are looking for a half, centre/backrower and a front rower.

Contact

Anthony Seibold

South Wales Scorpions, Head Coach

anthony.seibold@cymrurl.com

_______________________________________________________________

It seems hard to believe clubs feel the need to do this, especially really small budget clubs like these. What it suggests to me is that so long as there are loop holes for any club at any level they will abuse them to bring in Australian and NZ players. The only way to stop it is to tighten the rules right up at all levels.

Indeed we do need to stop it.

A big acheivement was our border control, stopping criminals coming over and stopping work visa's.

(however small the offence was, they were stopped, we don't want your criminals)

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Indeed we do need to stop it.

A big acheivement was our border control, stopping criminals coming over and stopping work visa's.

(however small the offence was, they were stopped, we don't want your criminals)

Not quite true. If Bradford had got its way it would have signed Bird, Hull would have got Crocker, Huddersfield would have got Carney etc. So the clubs do want these "criminals". But the UKBA does not.

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Not quite true. If Bradford had got its way it would have signed Bird, Hull would have got Crocker, Huddersfield would have got Carney etc. So the clubs do want these "criminals". But the UKBA does not.

Of course UKBA counts, otherwise we'd be over run by criminals just like OZ.

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Of course UKBA counts, otherwise we'd be over run by criminals just like OZ.

Paleaasina, Pryce, Reardon, Bailey, Walker, Raynor, Cockayne, Hock. Seems like you've got plenty anyway. And if you want to look at actual crime stats I'll take Australia over the UK any day. The point is, English clubs are still desperate to sign NRL, and even second teir players, any way they can.

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To be fair to the Scorpions, this year they have only used one overseas player - and he has Welsh parents. It's not as if they're packing the whole side with Kolpaks - 90%-plus of the team will still be local Welsh lads. They could probably do with a little bit of experience in the side to take them to the next level.

Workington have no excuse though.

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To be fair to the Scorpions, this year they have only used one overseas player - and he has Welsh parents. It's not as if they're packing the whole side with Kolpaks - 90%-plus of the team will still be local Welsh lads. They could probably do with a little bit of experience in the side to take them to the next level.

Workington have no excuse though.

Yep I agree. When Cumbrian clubs are boasting about the amount of talent that they have in that region, and that they should be in SL, it is hard to stomach when you see notices like this.

At least the Scorpions one seems to be targeting three areas, whereas Town's doesn't even specify positions.

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Paleaasina, Pryce, Reardon, Bailey, Walker, Raynor, Cockayne, Hock. Seems like you've got plenty anyway. And if you want to look at actual crime stats I'll take Australia over the UK any day. The point is, English clubs are still desperate to sign NRL, and even second teir players, any way they can.

WHHHHOOOOOOOOOOSSSSSHHHHH!

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Yep I agree. When Cumbrian clubs are boasting about the amount of talent that they have in that region, and that they should be in SL, it is hard to stomach when you see notices like this.

At least the Scorpions one seems to be targeting three areas, whereas Town's doesn't even specify positions.

But of course, it's perfectly acceptable for SL clubs to pack their squads with overseas players, whilst simultaneously boasting about the amount of local talent they're developing... Does this suggest that any team looking for overseas players doesn't belong in SL?

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But of course, it's perfectly acceptable for SL clubs to pack their squads with overseas players, whilst simultaneously boasting about the amount of local talent they're developing... Does this suggest that any team looking for overseas players doesn't belong in SL?

Nope, you will also see plenty of threads criticising SL overseas signings.

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WHHHHOOOOOOOOOOSSSSSHHHHH!

I know what he's getting at. It's another poor attempt to suggest Australia is full of crooks because a small percentage of early settlers originally came as convicts 220 years ago. It's hilarious.

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Nope, you will also see plenty of threads criticising SL overseas signings.

But your point was that a club like Workington looking to sign overseas players doesn't belong in SL. It's almost compulsory for SL clubs, it would seem. I'm surprised that one of the criteria for a license doesn't involve signing half a dozen kolpacs.

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Yep I agree. When Cumbrian clubs are boasting about the amount of talent that they have in that region, and that they should be in SL, it is hard to stomach when you see notices like this.

At least the Scorpions one seems to be targeting three areas, whereas Town's doesn't even specify positions.

I have not seen Town make any such claims anywhere.

For your info, why should Town bother running an academy and developing players ? They have been doing so for the last couple of years only for a 'better off' club in the county to announce they are setting one up for next year and steal the players away as they can pay them more. Money down the drain.

Furthermore, Town's squad is heavily based on local players. On Sunday when they beat South Wales the Town 17 contained 14 Cumbrian players, 1 Australian who has been here 6 years and is married to a local girl and is permanently settled in the town, 1 Australian quota player and 1 Scottish player. Hardly overkill on import players.

Financial restrictions mean that clubs can not afford to fly over loads of overseas players at this level anyway, my information is Town are looking for 1, possibly 2, players but have made the advert generic in order to see what applicants they can get before narrowing down their options.

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To be fair to the Scorpions, this year they have only used one overseas player - and he has Welsh parents. It's not as if they're packing the whole side with Kolpaks - 90%-plus of the team will still be local Welsh lads. They could probably do with a little bit of experience in the side to take them to the next level.

Workington have no excuse though.

Yes, Town have no excuse for only having 1 overseas player (Jarrad Stack) as well. Shame on them. Still, don't let facts get in the way eh ?

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But your point was that a club like Workington looking to sign overseas players doesn't belong in SL. It's almost compulsory for SL clubs, it would seem. I'm surprised that one of the criteria for a license doesn't involve signing half a dozen kolpacs.
No, that wasn't my point at all.

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I have not seen Town make any such claims anywhere.

For your info, why should Town bother running an academy and developing players ? They have been doing so for the last couple of years only for a 'better off' club in the county to announce they are setting one up for next year and steal the players away as they can pay them more. Money down the drain.

Furthermore, Town's squad is heavily based on local players. On Sunday when they beat South Wales the Town 17 contained 14 Cumbrian players, 1 Australian who has been here 6 years and is married to a local girl and is permanently settled in the town, 1 Australian quota player and 1 Scottish player. Hardly overkill on import players.

Financial restrictions mean that clubs can not afford to fly over loads of overseas players at this level anyway, my information is Town are looking for 1, possibly 2, players but have made the advert generic in order to see what applicants they can get before narrowing down their options.

Apologies, some clumsy terminology used by me in my first line, it isn't the clubs that make these claims, it is the fans (and not just Cumbrian fans btw).

TBH, the number of overseas players frustrates me, whether that is my club Warrington, or whether it is a club advertising for overseas players through a loophole.

We often hear people claim that areas are hotspots for RL and youth development, yet still these clubs rely on many overseas players. Wigan certainly don't deserve any criticism for their youth development, yet even they have a large nucleus of overseas players (although they are becoming less prominent). Even Leeds etc are the same, with some rather average overseas players in their ranks.

People overstate the youth development thing, I don't think any club can rely on their local talent, yet we always get told that certain area are hotbeds, when in reality Cumbria probably couldn't provide a full team of Cumbrian talent that would compete in SL. It was more a reality check, when we often hear how much talent we have there yet we see ads like this.

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This quote system certainly seems to be a complete joke. All sorts of players don't seem to count on it. Former Aussie prop Mick Vella doesn't count on it! How barmy is that.

Still when we stop promotion and relegation all these problems of clubs signing loads of foreign players will go away :dry:

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No, that wasn't my point at all.

So the issue of a club claiming they should be in SL and at the same time chasing overseas players isn't a problem to you then? I'm not trying to be awkward, but that's pretty much what you said.

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So the issue of a club claiming they should be in SL and at the same time chasing overseas players isn't a problem to you then? I'm not trying to be awkward, but that's pretty much what you said.
My point was that we often get told that there is so much talent that there should be Cumbrian representation in Super League. Not that there are loads of fans, or that the stadiums are great and there are loads of money men, simply that there is loads of talent playing the game.

If this is the case, why are clubs looking to take advantage of loopholes?

I am not saying that they don't deserve a SL spot, as many SL clubs are no better.

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My point was that we often get told that there is so much talent that there should be Cumbrian representation in Super League. Not that there are loads of fans, or that the stadiums are great and there are loads of money men, simply that there is loads of talent playing the game. If this is the case, why are clubs looking to take advantage of loopholes?

Derwent answered that with the facts - see above. Workington and Whitehaven do use a lot of cumbrian players in their NL sides, and workington seem to be chasing one or possibly two overseas quality players to boost their side - maybe in key positions).

Workington have been stuck in the division of death for some time now and they probably feel they need to get out of it before NL1 gets extended and NL2 gets dumped to amateur, I don't know, but there are probably other angles to this Dave??.

If there's a boast that Cumbria has the talent then we need the facts, for instance how many cumbrians are playing first team in SL and how many young cumbrians are in SL acedemies?? Enough such that if you add the customary 8 overseas pro players to the total do you have an SL quality team with plenty of young lads lined up - maybe you do maybe you don't.

But also consider before suggesting that Cumbria could not find 17 professional SL quality cumbrian born players to make up a SL home grown side, how any Warrington side would look if it was only Warrington born.

Could Salford even field a 5 a side soccer team with salford and manchester born professional RL players.

RL is massively short of quality players, that's why they are imported across the board, if we believe clubs should "grow their own" I can only think that given the size of the Cumbrian Junior RL set up, and how much bigger it would be if there were an SL set up stimulating it's growth, it would be quite a production line.

So maybe unfair to make remarks about the numbers of quality cumbrians - that's a problem for most clubs even those at SL level.......

Edited by The Parksider

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Derwent answered that with the facts - see above. Workington and Whitehaven do use a lot of cumbrian players in their NL sides, and workington seem to be chasing one or possibly two overseas quality players to boost their side - maybe in key positions).

Workington have been stuck in the division of death for some time now and they probably feel they need to get out of it before NL1 gets extended and NL2 gets dumped to amateur, I don't know, but there are probably other angles to this Dave??.

If there's a boast that Cumbria has the talent then we need the facts, for instance how many cumbrians are playing first team in SL and how many young cumbrians are in SL acedemies?? Enough such that if you add the customary 8 overseas pro players to the total do you have an SL quality team with plenty of young lads lined up - maybe you do maybe you don't.

Some good points, and I agree with many of them, my frustration isn't limited to Workington doing this, as I have pointed out on susequent posts, all clubs are as bad as each other, it was just that Town were the club highlighted. When Wigan sign an overseas player they get questioned about their local youth policy, this is no different.

But also consider before suggesting that Cumbria could not find 17 professional SL quality cumbrian born players to make up a SL home grown side, how any Warrington side would look if it was only Warrington born.
I would just point out that comparing a county to a town is not the same thing. I also didn't suggest that Cumbria couldn't field a SL team of Cumbrians. I was simply pointing out that we are old time and again about the wealth of talent in that region, yet even clubs in Cumbria are having to take advantage of loopholes. Nothing pointed, and not even a major criticism of Workington or Cumbria, more a comment on the state of the game that even hotbeds of the game cannot provide a strong lower-tier team.

RL is massively short of quality players, that's why they are imported across the board, if we believe clubs should "grow their own" I can only think that given the size of the Cumbrian Junior RL set up, and how much bigger it would be if there were an SL set up stimulating it's growth, it would be quite a production line.

So maybe unfair to make remarks about the numbers of quality cumbrians - that's a problem for most clubs even those at SL level.......

And that was a point I also made.

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Yes, Town have no excuse for only having 1 overseas player (Jarrad Stack) as well. Shame on them. Still, don't let facts get in the way eh ?

Calm down chief. I wasn't having a go. I didn't say your squad was full of kolpaks (as, erm, it isn't), either.

The point you made about developing your own players is a good one, too. Other Championship/Championship 1 clubs are encountering similar problems with the SL clubs on their doorsteps.

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I would just point out that comparing a county to a town is not the same thing. I also didn't suggest that Cumbria couldn't field a SL team of Cumbrians. I was simply pointing out that we are old time and again about the wealth of talent in that region, yet even clubs in Cumbria are having to take advantage of loopholes. Nothing pointed, and not even a major criticism of Workington or Cumbria, more a comment on the state of the game that even hotbeds of the game cannot provide a strong lower-tier team.

Fair enough as always, it's interesting you quote cumbria as a "county" and Warrington as a "town".

The development of professional RL has spread not to towns - who are not excactly encouraged to apply for SL but regions like "The London Area", "Wales", "The Catalans region".

The towns who once could produce whole teams of cup winners like Featherstone, Cas and Widnes can not do that anymore, and the hope seems to be that in time teams based on regions can produce quality home grown full sides simply due to the numbers game!!

You'd have though on this basis Cumbria certainly would be a natural extension of this policy, but it seems the "population" problem (stadium as well I know, but that could be sorted) is the real bar as it's felt there would not be enough fans.

I think around 1949-51 the two West Cumbria clubs jointly averaged 18,000 gates......

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we have to find away around these import rules legally, and follow what the German Bundesliga has done. i would still like to see all the imports out of the Bristish game as soon as possible though.

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Think Salford might just manage a 5 a side team on just those born in Salford, but you would have to apply the same criteria to all the other teams, how many claimed by Wigan are born in the town rather than Leigh, Same for Leeds as many are from other RL playing areas.

Mot teams are looking to develop genuine academy players rather than the imports and this should be encouraged. Maybe every 5th full (3 yrs)academy player deosn't count in the cap (at whatever level)

This petty point scoring is getting out of hand. How many other sports focus on the neg?

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