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snapski

you'd think someone had died looking at the bradford posts

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they want to try relegation (twice) ang losing all the better playing assests you have.

rebuilding, yet still only being a yoyo club, until franchising.

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they want to try relegation (twice) ang losing all the better playing assests you have.

rebuilding, yet still only being a yoyo club, until franchising.

I think that's what they are trying

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It's all doom and gloom at present for Bradford, but they have had many many happy seasons.

My club have always promised and never delivered, in my life time they have won a few cups, but i am proud of them.

Bradfords fall from grace is gaining momentum, they need to react now before they really do become a lesser club.

But remember bulls you have tasted success so have happy memories, most clubs would give their right arm for 1 SL trophy, never mind a trophy cabinet of all sorts.

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The issue is, if the Bulls keep going as they are they will die. They are not getting enough people through the turnstiles, and with the expense of the ground, that ain't good. On top of that, if the Bulls were to fail in a franchise bid, they would, I can almost guarantee, go out of business. No body has died, but the club is, at the moment, in a very real, terminal decline. As you can imagine, people are a little worried about this.

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You can't denude a team of all its best players - Fielden, Peacock, Lowes, Pryce, Vainokolo, Deacon, plus its best coach - Noble and expect the same perfomances. If anyone is to blame for Bradford's current plight it's Caisley - who's now long gone.

The Bulls have been in a decline since his departure. They are in a losing streak and to revive an argument from another thread, they don't look like top 8 contenders, so from the players' and fans' points of view what's the point?

Their season is effectively over. They should still be capable of beating the likes of Salford but it looks like they can't be bothered.

Was it only 2005 when they beat Leeds in the GF? With Lowes playing his last game, Pryce MOM. Peacock went to Leeds because Caisley told him he could F-off when he asked for more money. Noble and Fielden were allowed to go to Wigan without much of a fight. When you think of them in the early noughties, and look at them today - it's a case of how are the mighty fallen?

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One thread "hahaha Bradford lose, excellent". Next thread "stop whining Bulls fans"... :rolleyes:

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Bradford probably need a little bit of a decline in order that the club as a whole gets a reality check.

A club is only as strong as its strength under adversity, when the silverware is coming in and with it supporters clubs get a false sense of security.

The potential at Bradford is there, the challenge for the club now is to attract supporters back without doing it on the back of trophies.

Both Warrington and Wigan have shown how a club can be resiliant and grow without silverware and in Yorkshire Huddersfield continue steady progress again without any pots to wave at the crowd.

A bit of a backroom clearout is probably needed to get people in with new ideas and with a different philosophy regarding what is success.

Settle for lean times and concentrate on a slow rebuild. Don't chase the fans you have recently lost they are not your future, connect with the young new fans, the recently lost willl drift back in time as things pick up.

In the words of the immortal Douglas Adams "Don't Panic"

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"Don't panic"

I thought that was Corporal Jones? :D

Over to you, Captain Mainwaring!

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"Don't panic"

I thought that was Corporal Jones? :D

Over to you, Captain Mainwaring!

I'm sure i have seen Padge's name on the credits ;) (Dad's army that is)

what do you say Dave :O

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"Don't panic"

I thought that was Corporal Jones? :D

Over to you, Captain Mainwaring!

HHGG.jpg

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HHGG.jpg

I understood mate.

It was also slightly cheaper than the Encyclopedia Galactica. ;)

Of the possessions I made sure I had when I moved to be alone (ish), the hard back 5 volume trilogy was one of them. B)

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I understood mate.

It was also slightly cheaper than the Encyclopedia Galactica. ;)

Of the possessions I made sure I had when I moved to be alone (ish), the hard back 5 volume trilogy was one of them. B)

To right mate, your never alone with a 5 book trilogy of H2G2 books

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I'm sure i have seen Padge's name on the credits ;) (Dad's army that is)

what do you say Dave :O

He wasn't Pike was he? (stupid boy :lol: )

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Geeks!

Not at all.

Appreciate good writing and exceptional humour, and it's as likely to be true as any other theory ever written. ;)

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Yes, showing concern when your club is going down the pan is just like thinking someone has died. :dry:

Anyway, haven't you got a 'hooray cas and batley won' thread to look after?

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Both Warrington and Wigan have shown how a club can be resiliant and grow without silverware and in Yorkshire Huddersfield continue steady progress again without any pots to wave at the crowd.

All three clubs have very wealthy owners bankrolling them and allowing them to spend the full cap and invest in marketing and other off-field resources.

Its that that made the difference.

hth

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All three clubs have very wealthy owners bankrolling them and allowing them to spend the full cap and invest in marketing and other off-field resources.

Its that that made the difference.

hth

Im impressed you have access to all them 3 clubs accounts

What difference has it made, one CC win for Warrington, helluva difference

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You can't denude a team of all its best players - Fielden, Peacock, Lowes, Pryce, Vainokolo, Deacon, plus its best coach - Noble and expect the same perfomances. If anyone is to blame for Bradford's current plight it's Caisley - who's now long gone.

The Bulls have been in a decline since his departure. They are in a losing streak and to revive an argument from another thread, they don't look like top 8 contenders, so from the players' and fans' points of view what's the point?

Their season is effectively over. They should still be capable of beating the likes of Salford but it looks like they can't be bothered.

Was it only 2005 when they beat Leeds in the GF? With Lowes playing his last game, Pryce MOM. Peacock went to Leeds because Caisley told him he could F-off when he asked for more money. Noble and Fielden were allowed to go to Wigan without much of a fight. When you think of them in the early noughties, and look at them today - it's a case of how are the mighty fallen?

Lowes' last game was 2003, though.

The Bulls have been in decline since they were forced to stop spending well beyond their means, with no sugar daddy to bankroll the losses. Caisley bailed out and Noble went when the massive overspending on their watch had to be curtailed else the club would have gone under. And with the club facing a

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Im impressed you have access to all them 3 clubs accounts

What difference has it made, one CC win for Warrington, helluva difference

I do.

So can you have.

www.companieshouse.gov.uk.

Make sure you get all the various group company accounts though - for example, Wire and Hudds each have three companies where you have to do a pro-forma consolidation to see the whole position. And just how much Moran and Davy have put in, as well as e.g. the massive benefit Wire had from the Tesco development. You'd need to have the skills to interpret them, of course.

And the point had nothing to do with winning trophies. Quite the opposite. It was about how those three clubs (and good luck to them) had managed to be "...resilient and grow without silverware" - which is indeed what they have managed to do. The trophies will follow too, certainly for Wigan and Wire - I am in no doubt about that.

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I do.

So can you have.

www.companieshouse.gov.uk.

You'd need to have the skills to interpret them, of course.

I dont, interpret them for us me old mate

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He wasn't Pike was he? (stupid boy :lol: )

Nice one Trojan :lol::lol:

The Pie Man will be after us now. :P

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All three clubs have very wealthy owners bankrolling them and allowing them to spend the full cap and invest in marketing and other off-field resources.

Its that that made the difference.

hth

So the people of those three towns, took a look at the clubs and thought, well they are playing sh!t rugby, they are winning nothing and going nowhere, but I'll tell you what I'm going to get myself down there to see this rich bloke they've signed.

Maybe with these type of guys at the helm they understand long term strategies, they understand marketing, loss leaders and invest to impress. Maybe they are just better at running things.

Since you have the access and the skills would you care to put up the precise figures for how much money these 3 have bank rolled their clubs by, could you then also publish how much money the other clubs have borrowed.

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So the people of those three towns, took a look at the clubs and thought, well they are playing sh!t rugby, they are winning nothing and going nowhere, but I'll tell you what I'm going to get myself down there to see this rich bloke they've signed.

Maybe with these type of guys at the helm they understand long term strategies, they understand marketing, loss leaders and invest to impress. Maybe they are just better at running things.

Since you have the access and the skills would you care to put up the precise figures for how much money these 3 have bank rolled their clubs by, could you then also publish how much money the other clubs have borrowed.

Actually yes I could, and a while ago I did (don't think I did Wigan at the time) - obviously any costs paid directly by the owner that did not go through the club (and there is no reason at all why that should not happen) will not show up in that analysis. Also of course its based on thge latest filed accounts, which for most clubs means 31/12/08. Wait until end September (probably longer for HKR again...) and I'll be able to give you 2009 numbers. I'm not going to set about the exercise in full again now, but if I get a few mins at home in the next day or so I'll put up the numbers for those 3 clubs.

And I fear you are deliberately seeking to misunderstand my point. It is an observation and not any kind of criticism. Wealthy owners prepared to put a lot of personal money into a club means that (for example) the club can go recruit and retain some good marketing people. And, as has rightly been pointed out on various forums, the clubs that have got their marketing right - and adequately resourced - have tended to be the ones who have made great strides in building attendances (even Hudds). Marketing requires money, and if you ain't got the funding in the first place, then you'll not be able to compete with those who do. Off the field as much as on the field.

As a specific example - Wigan have a very good and effective marketing director. Who has a decent budget to play with. He used to be at Bradford, where I'm sure he learned a lot in the early SL years. I'm sure he will be earning a lot more now than he did - or could have - at Bradford, and for sure he has a far bigger budget than Bradford. Bradford cannot even afford anyone senior in a specific marketing role now. Wigan have gone from success to success off the field, well before the on-field performances caught up. Bulls have gone from bad to worse, and by common consent its marketing appears poor. Would Bulls have fallen so far with a wealthy owner to bankroll the club - off the field as much as on it, given the salary cap restricts the latter? Its surely not rocket science, is it?

And yes, maybe the wealthy owners ARE better at understand long term strategies, maybe they do better understand marketing, loss leaders and invest to impress. Maybe they are just better at running things. The likes of Ken Davy, for example (I know more about him than some of the others) have proved they are very very good in their respective fields and businesses. And they likely did not get to where they are today by thinking they can do it all themselves. Hence they go out and recruit - and pay - good people. Maybe that is why they have amassed the wealth to enable them to become wealthy owners? Guys like McManus, for example, are clearly very capable and shrewd businessmen - I quote him because of the outstanding job he did turning Saints finances and everything else off-field round.

All of which in no way detracts from my point - if you have a wealthy owner - and especially one who has got to be one through their own business success, you likely have a huge advantage OFF the field - and especially in marketing - than if you do not.

And as for why some clubs have managed to attract wealthy owners and some have not...you tell me. Maybe there is no wealthy fan interested enough, or appetite to take on the task? Maybe the existing owners have not been prepared to relinquish control? And if the latter, and if there were candidates otherwise ready willing and able, then they deserve everything they get.

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