Which sides are most likely to get a SL licence

[mick wilson]

Ground

So it's better to own a dump of a ground rather than rent a Superb Stadium, is that what you are saying Mick ?

Get real. It doesn't matter if your ground is rented or owned, it's the quality of it that counts.

Licence bids have to be in for December this year, and the outcome will be announced March next year. Do you honestly think you can match or better our structure in 4 months ?

1, Yes in my opinion its better to own than rent, As we have a tangible assett (( if )) we ever want to sell, Plus we keep 100% of the money that it generates like gate reciepts, consessions, concerts and such like.

The only drawback is its currently run down and costs money to upkeep and we have to invest heaviliy in any future refurb, but its ours.

2, Why not , There are 20 plus Barrow kids in various clubs academys & probably 20 plus West Cumbrian kids in academys, So if we set 1 up we will benefit from the training these kids have already recieved off their current clubs.........I would imagine the cream of Cumbrian kids playing for a Cumbrian SL club would certainly give you GAME

[HappyDave]

I voted Widnes & Fev...

Seeing as Sheffield have been is SL before; how many of the criteria do they currently meet?

I think Toulouse may get a licence in 2015 but if Barrow are to get a licence this time around then the RFL should ask them to change their insignia as it's even worse than Cas, Bradford & Wires. I think there badge looks like it belongs in US sports such as Basketball/American Football/Ice Hockey & doesn't belong in top flight UK sports.

[Bomb Jack]

So if we set 1 up we will benefit from the training these kids have already recieved off their current clubs.........I would imagine the cream of Cumbrian kids playing for a Cumbrian SL club would certainly give you GAME

I'm sure they would give us a game, i'm not that naive.

So all Cumbrian Academy players are coming to play for Barrow in the next 4 months ?

[mick wilson]

Barrow for me, widnes would be a backwards step. Cumbria needs to be represented and it would be a travesty if barrow aren't given a licence. A county that has rugby league as its number one sport needs a presence at the highest level.

Haven & Wukkie are both really struggling both on & off the field with Haven plummeting & Wukkie regrouping & showing some signs of recovery, but id say they both might have to spend less on Academys in the near future as a consiquence in these tight financial times.

Anyone who knows anything about Cumbrian RL understands the rotation of reasonable success between the 3 sides meaning whoever is currently top dog gets all the best talented players both current 1st grade and youngsters, Barrow are now top dog after Havens decade in the sunshine.

Next Season Wukkie will be nos 2 in the county, They presently have about 10/12 Barrow lads playing for them who we released as we progressed up the leagues as they were in the main fresh of of non league RL thrust into the Barrow side of 2 yrs ago.

They are still developing as players while playing for Wukkie, 3 or 4 of them are very promising youngsters who I hope we are still keeping an eye on for the future.

If Barrow were to get a franchise & the 3 yr window to develop properly id say after a year or 2 adjusting to the higher grade we'd have a strong mainly Cumbrian produced mid table SL team with a strong Reserve grade plus a very very strong Academy structure producing a few good players every season (which is the point of any Academy, isnt it ?)

We have improved greatly in the last few seasons , grant us the licence and WE WILL PRODUCE THE GOODS.

[mick wilson]

I'm sure they would give us a game, i'm not that naive.

So all Cumbrian Academy players are coming to play for Barrow in the next 4 months ?

I never said ALL, but if you were a kids parent where would you advise you kiddo to learn his trade.

Newly relegated Haven who are in freefall & financial difficulties & the 1st team playing in front of 700 + speccies?

Wukkie trying damn hard to get back to a respectable level in front of 500/600 + speccies, but heavily relying on Barrow lads.

Or the

Current Div 1 Champs, Current GF Winners & the only local club really improving in great strides & with our increased crowds of 1800 ish and increased revenue due to our very successful lottery and winnings due to our recent finals & possiblly a future SL Club.

So BJ WHERE WOULD YOU PLACE YOUR CHILD, WHICH CLUBS ACADEMY ?

[jannerboyuk]

How are we acting like arrogant kids! No one's demanding to be let in. We deserve to be in. You yourself have said as much. We have done EVERYTHING asked by the RFL. That is why we sit as the only club in the Championship that currently can apply for a franchise spot.

If the RFL turned around now and said you aren't going in, Toulouse are!! Would we not have reason to be miffed. All the money spend on renovating an already excellent stadium, the tens of thousands of pounds being spent on youth players for our future.

I don't pretend that the RFL hate us.. we have been unfortunate that there have been numerous run ins over the years that have ended with Widnes sucking the wrong end of an egg.

As for your attitude about Widnes.. it doesn't surprise me. The club that should have got in ahead of yours the last time around is about to show how wrong a decision that was. If your club's still in existence then obviously!

Not demanding? You said it would be a disgrace and fans would walk away from the sport but thats not demanding? Yeah sure buddy.

You have fulfilled the criteria for applying to join the superleague. Thats it.

If toulouse were allowed in without participating in a grand final then everyone should be miffed becuase they would have not qualified to apply. Nobody was talking about that and you know it.

Laughable. Its a rediculous attitude that can't be backed up by anybody sane so you retreat from it.

My attitude to widnes is that they should be superleague. The fact that i want to see you get thrashed is a sporting rivalry, the fact that you can't see that says it all about the whining little poor us attitude that a lot of widnes fans seem to adopt.

Oh let me guess you don't want us to go out of existence but... Yeah the great rugby league family, locals only need apply. "I'm not against expansion but but but..."

[Bulletproof]

Not demanding? You said it would be a disgrace and fans would walk away from the sport but thats not demanding? Yeah sure buddy.

You have fulfilled the criteria for applying to join the superleague. Thats it.

If toulouse were allowed in without participating in a grand final then everyone should be miffed becuase they would have not qualified to apply. Nobody was talking about that and you know it.

Laughable. Its a rediculous attitude that can't be backed up by anybody sane so you retreat from it.

My attitude to widnes is that they should be superleague. The fact that i want to see you get thrashed is a sporting rivalry, the fact that you can't see that says it all about the whining little poor us attitude that a lot of widnes fans seem to adopt.

Oh let me guess you don't want us to go out of existence but... Yeah the great rugby league family, locals only need apply. "I'm not against expansion but but but..."

What on earth does any of this have to do with your club? You show yourself up there, this has nothing to do with anything.

People see fans of all areas putting us forwards and then accuse us of arrogance. Hardly a fair turn of events.

It seems other fans are allowed to talk up their bids and even knock us down repeatedly with lies but the second we reply by building up widnes or refuting this B.S. people accuse us of arrogance. Well, this reflects badly only on those small minded people, not us, and I wont shirk from poiting out lies and b.s. whenever I see it. And as for you, you've been shown up as a biased person with preconceptions about people so I can't take you seriously.

[Bomb Jack]

So BJ WHERE WOULD YOU PLACE YOUR CHILD, WHICH CLUBS ACADEMY ?

Widnes'

[ChrisB]

Not demanding? You said it would be a disgrace and fans would walk away from the sport but thats not demanding? Yeah sure buddy.

it's up to them... if they want to do that then fine. They don't owe anyone anything. They feel like if the RFL overlooks us this time then they always will and that isn't an unreasonable assumption considering our suitability.

You have fulfilled the criteria for applying to join the superleague. Thats it.

We have done a lot more than that. We have positioned ourselves so that we are probably a better bet than a few of the clubs in SL.

If toulouse were allowed in without participating in a grand final then everyone should be miffed becuase they would have not qualified to apply. Nobody was talking about that and you know it.

Toulouse would be the obvious choice to go into SL if it wasn't Widnes. But this decision would be against everything that the RFL promised wouldn't it?

Laughable. Its a rediculous attitude that can't be backed up by anybody sane so you retreat from it.

Not retreated from anything.

My attitude to widnes is that they should be superleague.

Like pretty much everyone else. Which would make any decision not to include us seem peculiar and unfair.

The fact that i want to see you get thrashed is a sporting rivalry, the fact that you can't see that says it all about the whining little poor us attitude that a lot of widnes fans seem to adopt.

So this sporting rivalry.. it extends to all teams? you want all teams to be thrashed and relegated? Or just Widnes? I can guess the answer.

Oh let me guess you don't want us to go out of existence but... Yeah the great rugby league family, locals only need apply. "I'm not against expansion but but but..."

Couldn't care less about your team. You've been in existence for about 5 minutes. If you carry on then fair enough. If not..who cares? If anything it's a fairly local game for me to attend in 2012.... if you still exist!! I care less about your team than you do mine obviously.

[jannerboyuk]

What on earth does any of this have to do with your club? You show yourself up there, this has nothing to do with anything.

People see fans of all areas putting us forwards and then accuse us of arrogance. Hardly a fair turn of events.

It seems other fans are allowed to talk up their bids and even knock us down repeatedly with lies but the second we reply by building up widnes or refuting this B.S. people accuse us of arrogance. Well, this reflects badly only on those small minded people, not us, and I wont shirk from poiting out lies and b.s. whenever I see it. And as for you, you've been shown up as a biased person with preconceptions about people so I can't take you seriously.

If you bothered to read the comment i was responding to its pretty obvious why i brought my club into it.

You can build up your club and bid as much as you like. It's a good bid and it deserves success especially looking at the likely alternatives, although personally i don't want to see either wakefield or castleford thrown out. But calling any decision a disgrace unless it means widnes are in is arrogance and special pleading.

[jannerboyuk]

it's up to them... if they want to do that then fine. They don't owe anyone anything. They feel like if the RFL overlooks us this time then they always will and that isn't an unreasonable assumption considering our suitability.

Yep babies spitting out their dummies

We have done a lot more than that. We have positioned ourselves so that we are probably a better bet than a few of the clubs in SL.

Probably so, the decision still has to be fair to all potential applicants. Should fax and leigh just give up?

Toulouse would be the obvious choice to go into SL if it wasn't Widnes. But this decision would be against everything that the RFL promised wouldn't it?

It would be a clear disgrace, going against something specifically stated as opposed to vague delusion of persecution, cuz yer face doesnt fit

Not retreated from anything.

sure

Like pretty much everyone else. Which would make any decision not to include us seem peculiar and unfair.

no it would have to be because the rfl decided a stronger bid was put forward. If not thay should say widnes are in now to save evryone else the money and effort

So this sporting rivalry.. it extends to all teams? you want all teams to be thrashed and relegated? Or just Widnes? I can guess the answer.

Love beating salford, but we really havent played anyone else enough to develop anything yet. Obviousoly not all teams can be relegated. that would be stupid.

Couldn't care less about your team. You've been in existence for about 5 minutes. If you carry on then fair enough. If not..who cares? If anything it's a fairly local game for me to attend in 2012.... if you still exist!! I care less about your team than you do mine obviously.

a local shop for local people. don't worry tubs he won't get far

Edited August 4, 2010 by jannerboyuk

[ChrisB]

I don't know why Janners... but I expected more.

You're last post was a poor poor effort. Mad ramblings really. If you aren't going to put the effort in then I won't either.

See you in 2012.

[jannerboyuk]

I don't know why Janners... but I expected more.

You're last post was a poor poor effort. Mad ramblings really. If you aren't going to put the effort in then I won't either.

See you in 2012.

Ah the old scattergun insult. Classic.

[Matt J]

The only thing I have against Widnes is that, it appears, that they got the one trophy and offloaded any high earners , for me a shoe in for SL should be a team challenging every season, it looks like they've sat back on their one 'tick'

apart from that, they have everything else set, stadium, fan base, youth set-up etc.

Would love to see Featherstone in serious contention but a. we haven't qualified to apply b. crowds don't hit 2,500 every week (they have done this year...) and c. the stadium isn't complete (or started yet)

[Maximus Decimus]

As it stands (today) Widnes do have a better Stadium but its rented and you dont get 100% of any connsessions sold & your landlord holds the keys.

Barrow & Fev own their grounds and the land it sits on and Fev even own a much bigger tract of land in the surrounding area, both keep any monies generated & own the keys and titles.

....................

Today Widnes have the best crowds but they are falling by a bigger margin than the rest & going from the various Widnes supporters forums many are saying that (( if )) they dont get this franchise they will stop going completely......which i find STAGGERING as we all live with this reality every season and dont threaten to quit.....OMG are they Widnes supporters or just top class RL fans.

Barrow have a big UNOPPOSED area / population to draw support from , so have the bigger potential in drawing in both new and previous fans back to the club, We have increased our support in the last 4 seasons but have hit the wall this season with next to no visiting fans & a few less homers as they say whats the point "its a closed shop"

Both Barrow & Fev have re-development plans but can not implement these plans on Championship finances & crowds.

Half the current SL sides have a 10 yrs plus on the gravy train yet have not managed to achieve this, yet the RL expect championship clubs to be able to do this on a TENTH of the monies the SL sides recieve ?????

Which mean prudent clus get penilized for keeping solvent but not rich enough to pay for all these newer developments, should be go into massive DEBT TO ACHIEVE THESE REQUIREMENTS then dont get excepted only to bankrupt ourselves for trying ?????????

Today Widnes have the best yoof structure, but again that can be fixed almost overnight, especially in Furness due to no other quaility competing clubs, We are really struggling this term with our Reserve & yoof sides because its only our 2nd year in the championship and we have had to increase the other town player numbers to be competitive enough to win the chance of entering the great franchise race, we came up with a side full of locals, half left to join Wukkie as they would not get into todays team as we had to win somthing first, but next season we WILL HAVE A ACADEMY SIDE.

we have tons of kids at haven & wukkie academys who would love to play for their home town club instead of the 3.5 hour round trips up the coast 3 times per week at their parents expence.

If we were a SL club the best of the west cumbrian yoof would then travel down to us to be the best in the area, so we could draw all the talent from the whole of Cumbria.

We have SEVERAL Barrow kids at Saints, Wire, Leeds who could very easily be loaned out to Us as we establish ourselves in the SL & THE OTHER CUMBRIAN SL kids would probably do likewise to gain valuable experience.

Leigh, Fax & Widnes have all previous with SL and it wasnt pretty, Give others a chance.

Sorry for the ramble but i was multi tasking as im typing this.

What Mick fails to point out is that despite winning the league Barrows crowds have fallen percentage wise around the same if not more than Widnes'.

Doesn't quite fit with the 'Barrow are on the up and Widnes are on a spiral' story that he tries to portray here.

[Bulletproof]

The only thing I have against Widnes is that, it appears, that they got the one trophy and offloaded any high earners , for me a shoe in for SL should be a team challenging every season, it looks like they've sat back on their one 'tick'

apart from that, they have everything else set, stadium, fan base, youth set-up etc.

Would love to see Featherstone in serious contention but a. we haven't qualified to apply b. crowds don't hit 2,500 every week (they have done this year...) and c. the stadium isn't complete (or started yet)

We've actually retained a lot of those players but many of them have been injured or in the case of our star scrum half left to coach Hull FC, sort of out of our hands that one.

We've not been the best on the pitch this year, a lot down to injuries but we're getting it right all over and we'll be better on the pitch in the future.

[mick wilson]

We've actually retained a lot of those players but many of them have been injured or in the case of our star scrum half left to coach Hull FC, sort of out of our hands that one.

We've not been the best on the pitch this year, a lot down to injuries but we're getting it right all over and we'll be better on the pitch in the future.

This year, WTF When did you last finish higher than 5th ?

[Bulletproof]

(EDITED BY CKN to remove quoted post)

Aside from the personal abuse, you've got a number of things incredulously wrong.

First off, Barrow might have an unopposed area to draw from, but it's a sparse, rural area. You want to play the Barrow is expansion card, but if you do that, I'm obliged to point out that there are a lot of more suitable areas of greater population and influence to expand into, you can't play the tradition card any more because you've criticised others for it so you're argument already looks weak.

If you want to go down this route, bringing in the difficulties fans have making it up to you is not something in your favour. Crowds are what they are. Any problems you have now will be the same in super league. If you're in a sparse area with little support from away crowds this will be the same issue in SL so I don't know why you bring it up. I'd like to point out at this stage that away crowds notwithstanding, Widnes have more season ticket holders than the average needed for super league application, let alone your average crowds, so away followings are a minor issue here. No one gets a particularly good away following in this division. we regularly get a handful from yorkshire and it is only leigh who travel particularly well because they are the only team local to us.

Secondly, you didn't bring 100 to us, and Widnes' away following is regularly the greatest in the league. I don't think it is advisable for you to bring this or any crowd discussion up because you will lose, again, not only to us but to Halifax and Leigh.

[Bulletproof]

This year, WTF When did you last finish higher than 5th ?

Until very recently we regularly made the final (like in 2007) and have two cup wins and a final under our belt in the northern rail cup competition too.

[ckn]

Deleted one post and edited another. Regardless of any merit in the post there is no excuse for descending into personal abuse. Please re-read the General Forum Rules.

[jannerboyuk]

Toulouse would be the obvious choice to go into SL if it wasn't Widnes. But this decision would be against everything that the RFL promised wouldn't it?

"LICENSING AND CRITERIA FOR A SUPER LEAGUE LICENCE (JANUARY 2010)

A1:6 (a) There shall be no promotion or relegation between Super League and Championship

from the 2008 Season onwards. Instead for the 2009 Season and for every 3 seasons

after that, the Board shall invite applications for membership of Super League from: (i)

current Super League Clubs; (ii) Clubs in the Championships that meet minimum

standards set by the Board; and (iii) any overseas clubs invited to apply by the Board.

Those Clubs being offered and accepting a Super League Licence for 3 years shall

participate in Super League

[The Parksider]

"LICENSING AND CRITERIA FOR A SUPER LEAGUE LICENCE (JANUARY 2010)

hmm

Thanks for posting all that. It is still the case a minimum of one will go up from the championship, but there's no limit to how many clubs overall can go up and down.

With two grounds seriously in doubt and a strong indication a sugar daddy will pull out three could go and more if other clubs in debt lose their backers.

If London have to be kept by RFL funding, I suspect the rules will have to be changed anyway to include

Rule 72, paragraph 13, section 7 sub section 24 "and any club propped up by the RFL".

Very interesting times.....

[ChrisB]

"LICENSING AND CRITERIA FOR A SUPER LEAGUE LICENCE (JANUARY 2010)

A1:6 (a) There shall be no promotion or relegation between Super League and Championship

from the 2008 Season onwards. Instead for the 2009 Season and for every 3 seasons

after that, the Board shall invite applications for membership of Super League from: (i)

current Super League Clubs; (ii) Clubs in the Championships that meet minimum

standards set by the Board; and (iii) any overseas clubs invited to apply by the Board.

Those Clubs being offered and accepting a Super League Licence for 3 years shall

participate in Super League

[jannerboyuk]

RFL Statement from March 1st 2010

An RFL statement said: "The RFL has confirmed that Toulouse Olympique do need to appear in the 2010 Co-operative Championship Grand Final to earn the right to apply for a Super League licence from the 2012 season onwards.

Contrary to some reports, the mechanism by which Toulouse can apply for a Super League licence remains unchanged from the position in 2008, when the last round of licensing was completed."

I've got a feeling that some lawyers are going to be making some money this time round.

[ChrisB]

I've got a feeling that some lawyers are going to be making some money this time round.

:lol:

You could be right.