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ParisSurtout

Gareth Ellis is man of the match in the NRL's Sunday prime telecast

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So SL is a poor level of competition?... That's not even worth an answer. Are benyas & petero new trolls?

Try looking at their joined dates....they are not trolls

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And why?

Burgess - Bigger, stronger, faster, better handler, better defence

Ellis - Better defence, faster, equally strong runner

Watmough - Faster, better attacker, equal in defence

Gallen - More creative, better defender

Blair - See Burgess, but not quite so much.

Thaiday is far from a bad player - he is a good runner with a good offload, but I find him one-dimensional and rather static in defence.

If he is in Australia's starting XIII for the four nations, then I like the chances of England and NZ.

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Gallen

Watmough

Lewis

Creagh

Ellis

That's my top five back rowers. Thaiday is excellent in attack but as MrPosh said a bit static in defence. Burgess is going to become a top player but isn't there yet, just makes too many errors(both in attack and defence) that cost his team. Gallen is simply superb, in my opinion the best forward in the world by quite a way at the minute. I've always rated Watmough and although he hasn't had the best of seasons he is still a cracking player. Creagh and Ellis are very similar players, they turn up every week putting in consistent performances all year round. Luke Lewis at Penrith is very skillful and plays almost likea traditional loose forward linking the forwards and backs

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How far off are Westwood & J Tomkins to the best Second Rows in the NRL?

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How far off are Westwood & J Tomkins to the best Second Rows in the NRL?

12,000 miles and a few years for one of them.

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Yeah yeah. :D Okay, I'll re-word that; how far behind is Westwood skillwise compaired to the top 4-5 Second Rows in the NRL? He can't be that far off from Burgess & Ellis, can he? So, do you mean in a few years JTomkins will be 'World Class'?

Edited by HappyDave

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Yeah yeah. :D Okay, I'll re-word that; how far behind is Westwood skillwise compaired to the top 4-5 Second Rows in the NRL? He can't be that far off from Burgess & Ellis, can he? So, do you mean in a few years JTomkins will be 'World Class'?

Westwood is a good solid player and would hold his own in any competition he plays in and I can't think of many club sides he wouldn't improve. He also didn't disgrace himself playing internationally. However, he will never be a 'world class' player.

Tomkins has all the tools and, crucially, time on his side. With the right attitude he'll be amongst the world's best.

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So SL is a poor level of competition?... That's not even worth an answer. Are benyas & petero new trolls?

Who said SL is a poor level of competition?

Learn to read!

Ah! So not trolls, just $h1t-talkers.

Kiss my face.

Burgess - Bigger, stronger, faster, better handler, better defence

Ellis - Better defence, faster, equally strong runner

Watmough - Faster, better attacker, equal in defence

Gallen - More creative, better defender

Blair - See Burgess, but not quite so much.

Thaiday is far from a bad player - he is a good runner with a good offload, but I find him one-dimensional and rather static in defence.

If he is in Australia's starting XIII for the four nations, then I like the chances of England and NZ.

Burgess could be a true great. He's currently not there as he doesn't play enough minutes.

Ellis is a very very good player. He runs great lines and he makes good defensive decisions. A bit limited in attack but i think that's the way Wests play as he's good footwork.

Watmough, whilst great in attack is too much of a turnstile.

Gallen is class. Love him. Does too much work for Cronulla though!

Blair.. Not a massive fan; i like Creagh though.

Thaiday is wonderful and wins every collision.

To be honest, it's all personal preference. I just wanted to stimulate a debate.

Westwood is a very very good player and Tomkins has the ability, physique and stamina to join them and maybe go beyond.

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I think that the key to understanding the improvement of the English players in Australia is the standard of coaching and facilities.

Gareth Ellis is coached by one of the greatest rugby league coaches of the modern era, Tim Sheens. The remarkable Mr Sheens is a coach who has won three Australian premierships with the Canberra Raiders (1989, 1990, 1994) and one with the Wests Tigers (2005). His player-pupils have included Mal Meninga, Laurie Daley, Ricky Stuart, Glen Lazarus, Ruben Wiki, David Furner, Bradley Clyde, John Ferguson, Ken Nagas, Benji Marshall, Scott Prince, Brett Hodgson, Robbie Farah, and Patrick Richards. Tim Sheens is now the coach of World Champions Australia. How could Sheens' superior wisdom and experience not have had an effect on Gareth Ellis?

Sam Burgess is coached by John Lang, who coached Cronulla from 1994-2001 (taking them to the semi finals every year except two), and who later won an NRL premiership with the Penrith Panthers in 2003. His player-pupils have included Preston Campbell, David Peachey, Richie Barnett, Craig Gower, Ryan Girdler, Rhys Wesser, Luke Lewis, and Tony Puletua. How could Lang's wisdom and experience not have had an effect on Sam Burgess?

Coaching facilities in Australia of course far outstrip those available in Britain. These also influence player performance.

Edited by ParisSurtout

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I think that the key to understanding the improvement of the English players in Australia is the standard of coaching and facilities.

Gareth Ellis is coached by one of the greatest rugby league coaches of the modern era, Tim Sheens. The remarkable Mr Sheens is a coach who has won three Australian premierships with the Canberra Raiders (1989, 1990, 1994) and one with the Wests Tigers (2005). His player-pupils have included Mal Meninga, Laurie Daley, Ricky Stuart, Glen Lazarus, Ruben Wiki, David Furner, Bradley Clyde, John Ferguson, Ken Nagas, Benji Marshall, Scott Prince, Brett Hodgson, Robbie Farah, and Patrick Richards. Tim Sheens is now the coach of World Champions Australia. How could Sheens' superior wisdom and experience not have had an effect on Gareth Ellis?

Sam Burgess is coached by John Lang, who coached Cronulla from 1994-2001 (taking them to the semi finals every year except two), and who later won an NRL premiership with the Penrith Panthers in 2003. His player-pupils have included Preston Campbell, David Peachey, Richie Barnett, Craig Gower, Ryan Girdler, Rhys Wesser, Luke Lewis, and Tony Puletua. How could Lang's wisdom and experience not have had an effect on Sam Burgess?

Coaching facilities in Australia of course far outstrip those available in Britain. These also influence player performance.

male genitals.

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I watched Gareth Ellis play today. He was not the MoM this week, but he put in a strong performance again.

He remains the number one backrower, and second best forward (after Robbie Farah) in the West Tigers team.

Edited by ParisSurtout

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I think that the key to understanding the improvement of the English players in Australia is the standard of coaching and facilities.

Gareth Ellis is coached by one of the greatest rugby league coaches of the modern era, Tim Sheens. The remarkable Mr Sheens is a coach who has won three Australian premierships with the Canberra Raiders (1989, 1990, 1994) and one with the Wests Tigers (2005). His player-pupils have included Mal Meninga, Laurie Daley, Ricky Stuart, Glen Lazarus, Ruben Wiki, David Furner, Bradley Clyde, John Ferguson, Ken Nagas, Benji Marshall, Scott Prince, Brett Hodgson, Robbie Farah, and Patrick Richards. Tim Sheens is now the coach of World Champions Australia. How could Sheens' superior wisdom and experience not have had an effect on Gareth Ellis?

Sam Burgess is coached by John Lang, who coached Cronulla from 1994-2001 (taking them to the semi finals every year except two), and who later won an NRL premiership with the Penrith Panthers in 2003. His player-pupils have included Preston Campbell, David Peachey, Richie Barnett, Craig Gower, Ryan Girdler, Rhys Wesser, Luke Lewis, and Tony Puletua. How could Lang's wisdom and experience not have had an effect on Sam Burgess?

Coaching facilities in Australia of course far outstrip those available in Britain. These also influence player performance.

before you get on your soap box there are plenty of people on here that arent even agreeing that they have improved yet!

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Gallen

Watmough

Lewis

Creagh

Ellis

That's my top five back rowers. Thaiday is excellent in attack but as MrPosh said a bit static in defence. Burgess is going to become a top player but isn't there yet, just makes too many errors(both in attack and defence) that cost his team. Gallen is simply superb, in my opinion the best forward in the world by quite a way at the minute. I've always rated Watmough and although he hasn't had the best of seasons he is still a cracking player. Creagh and Ellis are very similar players, they turn up every week putting in consistent performances all year round. Luke Lewis at Penrith is very skillful and plays almost likea traditional loose forward linking the forwards and backs

i'd have Frank Pritchard in as well..

Thaiday IMO is a front rower playing second row at the broncos to give their younger front rows a chance whilst haveing the back up of thaiday to do the work for them.. also he takes a lot out of a team early on (3 props on the pitch at the start is no fun for anyone) to then try and hit out wide.. he isnt a true back rower but he has more than a front rower.. caught in the middle..

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