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Griff

Flextickets

25 posts in this topic

There's a debate currently running about "Flexitickets" on the Barrow forum. Starts about 12 posts in ...

http://www.totalrl.com/index.php?showtopic=207505&st=0

They're intended to replace season tickets.

Brief summary of the points

Instead of a season ticket, you buy a book of 5, 10, 20 - whatever you like - at a discount. You don't have to use these yourself - they're just tickets for future games. You don't have to use them this season. You could buy a book of 10 in July, use three this season and seven next.

Times have changed - Rugby League needs to change with them.

Advantages

1. You can buy them anytime. You're not bound to the start of the season.

2. If you can't go to a match because Sky have moved the game to Thursday :dry: , you can use the ticket later.

3. If the club let everyone in for nothing, you can use the ticket later.

4. If you want to spread the cost, you can buy your ticket at the start of the season and one for the Mrs later, when it's warmer :dry: .

5. No reason why these shouldn't be valid for cup ties - clubs can get their heads together and work something out - especially if Flexitickets become the norm.

6. You can take a mate from the South to the game and show him what he's missing.

Disadvantages

1. It's not what we've been doing for the past hundred years.

Thoughts ? :mellow:

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I like the idea a lot from a punter's perspective.

Though I guess a further disadvantage (from a club perspective) is that season tickets are a good way to get cash coming in during the off-season (that is, from sales for next season). A change to this kind of flexi system might lead to some of the smaller clubs having a few weeks of very limited +ve cash flow.

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There's a debate currently running about "Flexitickets" on the Barrow forum. Starts about 12 posts in ...

http://www.totalrl.com/index.php?showtopic=207505&st=0

They're intended to replace season tickets.

Brief summary of the points

Instead of a season ticket, you buy a book of 5, 10, 20 - whatever you like - at a discount. You don't have to use these yourself - they're just tickets for future games. You don't have to use them this season. You could buy a book of 10 in July, use three this season and seven next.

Times have changed - Rugby League needs to change with them.

Advantages

1. You can buy them anytime. You're not bound to the start of the season.

2. If you can't go to a match because Sky have moved the game to Thursday :dry: , you can use the ticket later.

3. If the club let everyone in for nothing, you can use the ticket later.

4. If you want to spread the cost, you can buy your ticket at the start of the season and one for the Mrs later, when it's warmer :dry: .

5. No reason why these shouldn't be valid for cup ties - clubs can get their heads together and work something out - especially if Flexitickets become the norm.

6. You can take a mate from the South to the game and show him what he's missing.

Disadvantages

1. It's not what we've been doing for the past hundred years.

Thoughts ? :mellow:

great idea

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I like the idea of them for the current season, but not carrying them over to the next.

And maybe only sell them from a certain point of the season onwards.

A similar sort of thing to what the Rhinos have done, in that they have been selling part-season tickets (ie, will get you into the last 6 home games, but only costs as much as 5 tickets) etc

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Could maybe see a problem for a high profile game where two teams are at the top of the league and demand is more than usual from the speccies.

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It's also a disadvantage for the club in the sense that they can say to sponsors we have "x amount of season ticket holders" but with this system there is a chance ###### all will turn up at less attractive fixtures. Of course there is always that chance with Season Tickets as well, but the point is a season ticket screams "loyalty and regular attendance" to potential sponsors, something these Flextickets don't come close to achieving.

Good idea in principle and good luck to anyone who tries it. As someone above said Leeds have been doing similar offers for a while - as have other clubs (The Bulls were doing in the middle of every season at one point)

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I like the idea a lot from a punter's perspective.

Though I guess a further disadvantage (from a club perspective) is that season tickets are a good way to get cash coming in during the off-season (that is, from sales for next season). A change to this kind of flexi system might lead to some of the smaller clubs having a few weeks of very limited +ve cash flow.

Do clubs really need a big influx of cash at Christmas ? What for ? To blow the money and then wonder where the next payday's coming from come July ?

You can sell flexitickets anytime. Maybe a spread of income, rather than one big payday, is what clubs need.

And - hey - if we thought about what the punters want a bit more, maybe we'd sell more tickets.

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I like the idea of them for the current season, but not carrying them over to the next.

Say why, brooza.

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Could maybe see a problem for a high profile game where two teams are at the top of the league and demand is more than usual from the speccies.

Possibly - but how many all ticket games are there in a season ?

Two ? One ? Less ?

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It's also a disadvantage for the club in the sense that they can say to sponsors we have "x amount of season ticket holders" but with this system there is a chance ###### all will turn up at less attractive fixtures. Of course there is always that chance with Season Tickets as well, but the point is a season ticket screams "loyalty and regular attendance" to potential sponsors, something these Flextickets don't come close to achieving.

Fair point. It'd be interesting to know how many games, on average, season ticket holders attend.

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It is a significant point of the season ticket that it is paid for during the off season when other revenue streams dry up but many bills still come in. Clubs will also use sales as a pointer to overall income when budgetting so there are good reasons why this type of business will not suit the proposal.

Clubs need to be more flexible and innovative in how they make their money so it will be interesting to see if this scheme improves the overall cash flow or not. It is not just about making more money it is about having the money at the right time.

Does anyone know if this idea has come from the fans or not?

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It's just my thoughts after listening to reasons people give for not buying a season ticket.

Buggering about with the fixture list is a primary reason. This solves the problem.

As I said on the Barrow forum, if I bought a four pack of tins of beans, I wouldn't expect Tescos to tell me what days I could eat them on, especially if they wouldn't confirm the dates until after I'd paid for the beans. So why should I pay for 13 match tickets which may prove to be played on dates I can't make?

The answer, apparently, is that that's how it's been for .... well, for ever. And it's the reason why clubs have to offer season tickets at ever reducing prices to get punters to buy them.

Edited by Griff

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Sheffield halved their 2010 season ticket price and I'm not sure what the target market might be.

Existing season ticket holders ? May as well have just stuffed

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Seems like a good idea but it's not perfect.

Season tickets are good from a clubs perspective because it makes people commit to going to 13 or so games. Now this is completely independent of whether or not the club does well. They make the purchase when they are optimistic about the season. I would also suggest that it encourages people to attend games even if they don't fancy it. Many people will go simply because they have paid. It also means that people have paid even if there is a change to their circumstance and they can no longer attend games.

From a personal point of view it would be ideal. I haven't bought myself a season ticket for at least 10 years. I can't guarantee that I can make all or most of the games and I have rarely had the money to shell out all at once. This year I've been a few games but not all games that I could have made, sometimes I haven't fancied paying for a game that doesn't appeal to me when I'm skint. I would be much more likely to pay for a flexticket, especially one that I could use with friends or give away if I couldn't make it. The club would benefit as it would guarantee more frequent attendance from people like me.

However I fear a club would see a reduction in the number of season tickets in exchange for flextickets. If the team started the season poorly, they may not get another ticket. Also in my experience many fans experience a mid-season lull anyway and may decide to pick and choose their games after that.

It's a tough one. If it was my club I would definitely suggest something like flextickets being brought in half-way through the season. It will take one club to try them out before we see if they work or not. If they do, all clubs will jump on it because it's win win. If they don't then they won't. It's a bit like the season ticket, I'm sure one club started them first and other's followed suit because they work.

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The origin of season tickets is the members' club. You joined the club and one of the benefits was free entry to all the games. In some areas, season tickets are still called "members passes" if only colloquially.

There are now no members' clubs.

Still, I'm not holding my breath that clubs will move with the times.

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I would estimate that there's around 3,000 season ticket holders at Hull FC's KC stadium with reserved seats.

Ain't gonna work for them unfortunately.

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There's a debate currently running about "Flexitickets" on the Barrow forum. Starts about 12 posts in ...

http://www.totalrl.com/index.php?showtopic=207505&st=0

They're intended to replace season tickets.

Brief summary of the points

Instead of a season ticket, you buy a book of 5, 10, 20 - whatever you like - at a discount. You don't have to use these yourself - they're just tickets for future games. You don't have to use them this season. You could buy a book of 10 in July, use three this season and seven next.

Times have changed - Rugby League needs to change with them.

Advantages

1. You can buy them anytime. You're not bound to the start of the season.

2. If you can't go to a match because Sky have moved the game to Thursday :dry: , you can use the ticket later.

3. If the club let everyone in for nothing, you can use the ticket later.

4. If you want to spread the cost, you can buy your ticket at the start of the season and one for the Mrs later, when it's warmer :dry: .

5. No reason why these shouldn't be valid for cup ties - clubs can get their heads together and work something out - especially if Flexitickets become the norm.

6. You can take a mate from the South to the game and show him what he's missing.

Disadvantages

1. It's not what we've been doing for the past hundred years.

Thoughts ? :mellow:

Stourbridge FC in the Southern League have already launched a similar scheme for this season - you can either buy a full season ticket for all 21 home games or a "half season ticket" which you can use for any 11 home league games during the season. This allows people to get a "bulk discount" even if you can't commit to every game.

Not sure what the take-up's been but there have certainly been positive vibes about the scheme.

Details here:

http://www.stourbridgefc.com/site/index.ph...&Itemid=101

All for it personally, the more money the club can get in up front the better.

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The origin of season tickets is the members' club. You joined the club and one of the benefits was free entry to all the games. In some areas, season tickets are still called "members passes" if only colloquially.

There are now no members' clubs.

Still, I'm not holding my breath that clubs will move with the times.

Not the issue whatsoever.

RL is a capitalist sport and as such if they work they will be adopted as it means more revenue. If they don't they won't.

I suspect we'll see one club try it and others will then follow suit. Take the example of Bullmania and how many clubs in RL (and Union) susequently adopted their methods.

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I would estimate that there's around 3,000 season ticket holders at Hull FC's KC stadium with reserved seats.

Ain't gonna work for them unfortunately.

Are they still running that 6 for the price of 5 Flexiticket ? :dry:

If a club's got seat reservation issues, there's nothing to say that the two schemes can't run parallel to one another.

Very few problems are insurmountable.

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Not the issue whatsoever.

RL is a capitalist sport and as such if they work they will be adopted as it means more revenue. If they don't they won't.

If that's so, why offer season tickets at all ? Presumably the clubs expect punters to turn up to insufficient games to make their season ticket pay.

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If that's so, why offer season tickets at all ? Presumably the clubs expect punters to turn up to insufficient games to make their season ticket pay.

Why would they? You're not understanding the point at all. Season tickets make the clubs more money because it guarantees them a certain amount of money from a number of fans. If they didn't offer them the reality would be that they would end up with less money even though the individual games price are more as people would not attend for whatever reason. Almost every ST holder I know doesn't make it to every game. I bought one for my 2 nephews who have probably made a third of the games.

Therefore as a business Season Tickets make sense. They provide you with guaranteed income higher than that you would get without them. They also provide it at the beginning of the season, allowing you to plan. NRL clubs have never needed them because of other revenue streams but they are starting to increase them year on year because they are financially beneficial.

You have no evidence that Flextickets would increase income, none at all. Therefore suggesting that clubs would somehow be stuck in the past for not using them doesn't work. Clubs will use them if they increase income, if they don't they won't. That's Capitalism. Not all clubs would jump on straight away but the best would and the rest would see the benefit.

Say Hull FC sold 10,000 season tickets this year. That's a guaranteed say

Edited by Maximus Decimus

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Are they still running that 6 for the price of 5 Flexiticket ? :dry:

If a club's got seat reservation issues, there's nothing to say that the two schemes can't run parallel to one another.

Very few problems are insurmountable.

You're correct in so far as they ran a part season pass a few years back, when you could get 6 games for the price of 5 halfway through the season but I don't think they've done it for at least a couple of seasons, not sure why.

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Season tickets and pre-booked tickets allow clubs to plan for gameday in respect to stewarding, how many snackbars and entrances to open. It is one of the reasons clubs like people to pre-purchase tickets for games. I could only see the scheme working if people specified the matches they wished to see before they bought the tickets, which is what Huddersfield did with their flexi-ticket offer. Unfortunately this would make the flexi part of the scheme less flexible.

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The analogy with Tesco and beans is invalid because no one is a Tesco fan. No one would stop shopping if their Tesco shut. Your club does not play RL 24 hours a day and sell you a ticket to watch 80 minutes of it at a time of your chosing.

Your RL club is a business working on a small turnover so cash flow is the killer. You will have noticed that players get contracts which entitle them to be paid regularly. You will know that HMRC are no longer prepared to accept their due when you have the money but want it on time now. Banks & suppliers are the same. Clubs will like the flexi ticket idea when they have players and suppliers on flexi deals and can go back to flexi tax/NI and flexi loans.

It obviously seems that season tickets work against the loyal fan but that is part of being a fan rather than a customer. Fans may like the flexibility of cost but when the 13 on the paddock reflects that flexibility and the scoreboard/league table reflects it they may be less than happy. A club that is a play thing might be able to trial this based on someone's willingness to underwrite the risk and plug the cash flow gaps but no club that is actually a standalone business will take the chance.

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Why would they? You're not understanding the point at all. Season tickets make the clubs more money because it guarantees them a certain amount of money from a number of fans. If they didn't offer them the reality would be that they would end up with less money even though the individual games price are more as people would not attend for whatever reason. Almost every ST holder I know doesn't make it to every game. I bought one for my 2 nephews who have probably made a third of the games.

Fair points - and while punters keep buying uneconomic season tickets, they're very valid.

However, I'll leave you with these points.

1. When clubs offer very cheap season tickets, I would question whether these maximise their income. Sheffield, for example, offered a 2010 season ticket for

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