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Severus

Manchester uni charging £9k tuition fees

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Welcome to the bright new world, some of us said this would happen and were denounced as Jeremiahs, bye bye working clas kids getting education, hello dole queue, hello the 1930's.

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Welcome to the bright new world, some of us said this would happen and were denounced as Jeremiahs, bye bye working clas kids getting education, hello dole queue, hello the 1930's.

If anyone is surprised by this then they are an idiot. Of course these proposed fees will all be subject to government approval.

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Welcome to the bright new world, some of us said this would happen and were denounced as Jeremiahs, bye bye working clas kids getting education, hello dole queue, hello the 1930's.

If anyone is surprised by this then they are an idiot. Of course these proposed fees will all be subject to government approval.

I'm not surprised at all, i said they'd all charge £9k a year unlike some of the right-wing apologists on here who said it would never happen.

as for gov't approval, lets face it, it's a shoe in.

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as for gov't approval, lets face it, it's a shoe in.

Nah the LibDems will veto it.....

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I'm not surprised at all, i said they'd all charge £9k a year unlike some of the right-wing apologists on here who said it would never happen.

as for gov't approval, lets face it, it's a shoe in.

Do keep up at the back there! :tongue:

1. No one is charging £9000 yet. So far 18 universities out of 89 have signaled their intention to charge more than £6000 for some courses starting in Autumn 2012. They might want to for some courses but they cannot do so without agreement from the Office for Fair Access.

see here.

You can see the current University of Manchester access agreement here. Have a read!

2. There is some research indicates that

- The average level of fees will be £8,000 (as opposed to the government's expectation of £7,500)

- a third of universities will charge the full £9,000

- a third of universities will charge between £7,500 and £9,000

- only a third of universities will charge £6,000 - £7,000.

3. what's a right wing apologist?

4. Shoo-in, lad, its SHOO-IN!!!!!

Personally, if the universities across the board do not meet their obligations if such fees are agreed by OFFA, I'll do what I can by writing to my MP and to the PM. What will you do?

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Nah the LibDems will veto it.....

No doubt the party who introduced them in the first place will put up a decent argument against them now or is 6k ok with everyone?

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Personally, if the universities across the board do not meet their obligations if such fees are agreed by OFFA, I'll do what I can by writing to my MP and to the PM. What will you do?

Not voting Tory would be a good start.

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Do keep up at the back there! :tongue:

1. No one is charging £9000 yet. So far 18 universities out of 89 have signaled their intention to charge more than £6000 for some courses starting in Autumn 2012. They might want to for some courses but they cannot do so without agreement from the Office for Fair Access.

see here.

You can see the current University of Manchester access agreement here. Have a read!

2. There is some research indicates that

- The average level of fees will be £8,000 (as opposed to the government's expectation of £7,500)

- a third of universities will charge the full £9,000

- a third of universities will charge between £7,500 and £9,000

- only a third of universities will charge £6,000 - £7,000.

3. what's a right wing apologist?

4. Shoo-in, lad, its SHOO-IN!!!!!

Personally, if the universities across the board do not meet their obligations if such fees are agreed by OFFA, I'll do what I can by writing to my MP and to the PM. What will you do?

bla bla bla

you're a right-wing apologist

fact is HE should be free and it's not.

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I have nothing to apologise for. You have no idea what I stand for.

Have you actually read any of the content I have provided?

So HE should be free? That's very much a minority view, as it was Labour who introduced these fees in the first place. Of course, it could be done, if England followed Scotland where Kenneth MacAskill, the Scottish Justice Minister has suggested that uni staff take a pay cut so that they don't have to introduces fees in Scotland.

However, exploring your statement.

What do you mean by free? Free accommodation, free subsistence, free books, free computers, free bus fares? Free beer?

What is the current total cost of higher education?

How would you fund higher education?

How would you control entry to higher education, given that if it were free, they may be a huge increase in applications?

Where would you get all the staff, premises and equipment from?

How would you handle the huge increase in drop-outs as those unsuited to higher education packed it in?

Somehow , I can't see you getting your way.

Oh, and here's what Labour did in its dying throes - University budgets cut by 14%

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A lot of programming languages these days are black boxes - algorithms are built in - I know how to write a linked list (even an AVL balanced list as I use in my compiler) but I have no need to write one in, say, C# as the generic collections in that language and framework do the job. Even compilers can be called from the frameworks now - I am writing a declarative data language using XML and have built the C# compiler into the program so if the declarative language doesn't do everything you want you can embed C# classes into a CDATA section and have them compile into the final program

I ran this through Babelfish using German, French and Spanish, to see if I could understand it, and now its a lot better:

Many languages of programming are aerial authors - of the algorithms they happen to be geeinbaut - me can a connected list write (a AVL even list balanced, whereas j' it uses in my compiler), me no necessity have at the moment despite, in the C# tenth to write, whereas the generic accumulations in this language and the pictures regulate the work. Compilers even can now be appointed by the pictures - qu' he writes to have established therefore a language of data of declaration by means of XML and the C# of the compilers in the program if the declaration language doesn' ; t does that it can fit all you to C# categories in a CDATA section and can be compiled in the final program to wish

Thanks

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Not voting Tory would be a good start.

How would that have had any effect, given that it was the Labour government that introduced the fees and payback regime including £15k pa threshold and payback amounts.

The Labour government also commissioned the Browne Report which actually recommended no cap on fees.

The current Government rejected the no-cap idea, and increased significantly the threshold at which graduates start to pay back their fees. They also increased significantly the steps Universities had to take to ensure increased participation from students from lower income families

The fact remains that there are still no up front fees to pay and that no one pays until the have completed their course.

It remains to be seen of course if between now and the beginning of the academic year in 18 months time if OFFA have the balls to act, which I an starting to doubt, given that the head of OFFA was previously Vice-Chancellor at the University of Manchester and you know how precious, defensive and protective the UK educational community is.

However, they do state, "Universities and colleges now have until Tuesday 19 April 2011 to submit their 2012-13 access agreements. OFFA will then assess their agreements and announce all agreements that have been approved by 11 July 2011."

so we'll see on 11th July, won't we.

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How would that have had any effect, given that it was the Labour government that introduced the fees and payback regime including £15k pa threshold and payback amounts.

The Labour government also commissioned the Browne Report which actually recommended no cap on fees.

The current Government rejected the no-cap idea, and increased significantly the threshold at which graduates start to pay back their fees. They also increased significantly the steps Universities had to take to ensure increased participation from students from lower income families

The fact remains that there are still no up front fees to pay and that no one pays until the have completed their course.

It remains to be seen of course if between now and the beginning of the academic year in 18 months time if OFFA have the balls to act, which I an starting to doubt, given that the head of OFFA was previously Vice-Chancellor at the University of Manchester and you know how precious, defensive and protective the UK educational community is.

However, they do state, "Universities and colleges now have until Tuesday 19 April 2011 to submit their 2012-13 access agreements. OFFA will then assess their agreements and announce all agreements that have been approved by 11 July 2011."

so we'll see on 11th July, won't we.

Labour were wrong to introduce top up fees in the first place but the Tories are revelling in raising them so that people from less well off backgrounds will be burdened with massive debts. This deep down is what Tories want. If I was in the position that many young people will now find themselves I very much doubt I would choose to go to university. I am very grateful for the chances I have been given and would like to see the subsequent generations also have the same opportunities.

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The next generation could well be the ones that state "I am the first person in my family not to go to university". Except of course if their family are loaded.

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This deep down is what Tories want.

I'm sure you would not want me to be anything but honest, so I'm obliged to say, " rubbish, complete rubbish."

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The next generation could well be the ones that state "I am the first person in my family not to go to university". Except of course if their family are loaded.

Would be, but won't, since there are more places available at University than ever, and more schemes to encourage members of less well off families to attend. Still, if some potential studens are not clever enough to work all this out, then they are maybe not clever enough for University in the first place.

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just seen on Twitter from a friend who works there that the wonderful and ancient seat of learning Liverpool John Moores University will be charging £9k from next year.

I went to LJMU and graduated in 2004. As a mature student returning to education the overall cost of doing so was a major consideration. With the fees then being £1000 pa it cost me £3500 (I did a 4 year sandwich course; they charge half fees for your year out of university and in work!) The fees combined with the student lone I needed to live on (I also worked part time throughout my time at uni, with having my own place to live and having no parental home to fall back on) left me with a total debt of around £15k. I am lucky, I will have paid this off in full by the end of this year, but that is still 7 years since graduating.

With the fees for LJMU proposed to be £9k pa, meaning my course would have left me with a debt of £31.5k in fees alone (a total debt of around £44k), I very much doubt I would have made the move. Because at those levels it would be doubtful I would have managed to clear the debt before I retied.

I know some will say that’s no problem, as the debt would be written off in those circumstances, but I’m not convinced the banks would take such a view. If so why when applying for credit such as a mortgage do they ask you to declare ALL current debts INCLUDING student loans?

This move of charging such large sums will have a detrimental effect on take up of HE by students from poorer backgrounds no mater what those who support it say.

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Labour were wrong to introduce top up fees in the first place but the Tories are revelling in raising them so that people from less well off backgrounds will be burdened with massive debts. This deep down is what Tories want. If I was in the position that many young people will now find themselves I very much doubt I would choose to go to university. I am very grateful for the chances I have been given and would like to see the subsequent generations also have the same opportunities.

This is the inevitable consequence of attempting to send 50% of 18 year olds to University and you know it. Send 20% to University and it would not be necessary.

To say 'This deep down is what Tories want' is a pitifully poor statement from a chap as bright and educated as yourself.

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If so why when applying for credit such as a mortgage do they ask you to declare ALL current debts INCLUDING student loans?

That's an interesting point. As I understand it the banks etc are interested in your ability to pay the mortgage payments, so would take student loan repayments into account when working this out. Some clarity would help.

Of course, this would not be an issue if the Labour Government has not spent 13 years screwing the housing market in search of cheap votes.

Anyway, I've just written to the head of OFFA asking him to show he has the power and will to act on those Unis that are assuming they will get away with charging £9000 across the board.

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I went to LJMU and graduated in 2004. As a mature student returning to education the overall cost of doing so was a major consideration. With the fees then being £1000 pa it cost me £3500 (I did a 4 year sandwich course; they charge half fees for your year out of university and in work!) The fees combined with the student lone I needed to live on (I also worked part time throughout my time at uni, with having my own place to live and having no parental home to fall back on) left me with a total debt of around £15k. I am lucky, I will have paid this off in full by the end of this year, but that is still 7 years since graduating.

With the fees for LJMU proposed to be £9k pa, meaning my course would have left me with a debt of £31.5k in fees alone (a total debt of around £44k), I very much doubt I would have made the move. Because at those levels it would be doubtful I would have managed to clear the debt before I retied.

I know some will say that’s no problem, as the debt would be written off in those circumstances, but I’m not convinced the banks would take such a view. If so why when applying for credit such as a mortgage do they ask you to declare ALL current debts INCLUDING student loans?

This move of charging such large sums will have a detrimental effect on take up of HE by students from poorer backgrounds no mater what those who support it say.

A four year course to learn how to make sandwiches? :O

Sheesh, say goodnight Gracie ! :wacko:

:ph34r:

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This is the inevitable consequence of attempting to send 50% of 18 year olds to University and you know it. Send 20% to University and it would not be necessary.

To say 'This deep down is what Tories want' is a pitifully poor statement from a chap as bright and educated as yourself.

I'm with you on reducing the numbers applying for university (having been to university reasonably recently, and seen the huge numbers of students that drop out within the first year, it is obvious that a great many weren't really that keen to go in the first place). However engineering a situation where only the well off can afford to go is not the right way to go about reducing the numbers.

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If so why when applying for credit such as a mortgage do they ask you to declare ALL current debts INCLUDING student loans?

Just gone through this.

They ask for all details of your expenditure. All credit cards, all childcare, all loans etc etc.

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I'm with you on reducing the numbers applying for university (having been to university reasonably recently, and seen the huge numbers of students that drop out within the first year, it is obvious that a great many weren't really that keen to go in the first place). However engineering a situation where only the well off can afford to go is not the right way to go about reducing the numbers.

Introduce fees or drastically reduce University numbers.

I prefer the second option.

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However engineering a situation where only the well off can afford to go is not the right way to go about reducing the numbers.

That is not the case, though. It may be true that scare stories about debt are putting off the debt averse less well off but to say only the well off can afford to go is just not true.

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Just gone through this.

They ask for all details of your expenditure. All credit cards, all childcare, all loans etc etc.

Exactly, so will having an extra £40k in student loans have any effect on your ability to get a mortgage?

I supose we should just sit back and trust the banks on this one. :blink:

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Exactly, so will having an extra £40k in student loans have any effect on your ability to get a mortgage?

Depends on the repayment terms.

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