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gingerjon

Tour de France cyclists

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What's the point of stripping Armstrong of his titles when at least one would go to runner-up Jan Ulrich, who has been convicted of doping?

I don't know the UCI rulebook but I would imagine they could just declare the relevant races null and void.

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I'd be tempted to not bother if this had been going for 10yrs with little sign of an end state.

The end state was coming up in court.

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The end state was coming up in court.

And may still. Has bruyneel dropped his opposition yet?

And they will still release their evidence

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I don't know the UCI rulebook but I would imagine they could just declare the relevant races null and void.

The UCI doesn't have jurisdiction over the Tour de France. The Tour is organised and controlled by a private company ... Amaury Sport Organisation. It also organises the Paris-Nice Tour, La Vuelta and the Dakaar Car Rally. The ASO can retain Armstrong's status and not give a monkeys about whether the UCI and USADA like it.

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The UCI doesn't have jurisdiction over the Tour de France. The Tour is organised and controlled by a private company ... Amaury Sport Organisation. It also organises the Paris-Nice Tour, La Vuelta and the Dakaar Car Rally. The ASO can retain Armstrong's status and not give a monkeys about whether the UCI and USADA like it.

I knew ASO organised the Tour. I didn't realise it wasn't run under the jurisdiction of the UCI. In any case, if the UCI acquiesce to USADA's request to annul all of Armstrong's results from August '98, nobody will give a monkey's what ASO say.

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And may still. Has bruyneel dropped his opposition yet?

And they will still release their evidence

As far as I'm aware, Armstrong's former team boss Bruyneel is still engaged in the legal process. As you say, this affair may still come to court. I would have thought If Bruyneel is successful it would seriously damage USADA's case against Armstrong.

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As far as I'm aware, Armstrong's former team boss Bruyneel is still engaged in the legal process. As you say, this affair may still come to court. I would have thought If Bruyneel is successful it would seriously damage USADA's case against Armstrong.

And I will be very surprised if it does go to court.

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It was to be presented in open court along with multiple witness statements, other evidence etc etc.

The Lanceaylytes seem not to notice that the only way Armstrong had of avoiding this was to withdraw from the court process.

If he had failed two drug tests. Why wasnt it made public at the time?

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David Millar's thoughts on the Armstrong case will be interesting, according to his tweet today he will post something soon. Millar is an ex-doper and friend of Armstrong.

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Forgive my ignorance, but I have been puzzled by the similarity between Lance Armstrong and an athlete from years ago, Lasse Viren. (Sorry if the spelling is wrong) Viren seemed to do very little of note between big competitions, then, come the World/European/Olympic Games, he turns up and is way better than all the other runners, especially in the late stages of a race. Armstrong also seemed to do very little of note between Tours, but was untouchable every July. I remember there was talk of Viren using his own blood in transfusions (blood doping?), but I don't think anything was proven or any action taken. The similarity is just so striking.

PS. I know LA, and probably LV, didn't do nothing between comps, just nothing of note.

I've read up a ittle about this, and there were rumours of doping, but nothing ever came of it. Obviously, detection techniques have come on a long way since Viren's day, but doping* was not illegal at the time.

*which is a different technique to the modern version of 'doping'. Back in the day, it involved taking and storing blood, then transfusing it back into the body. These days, synthetic erythropoietin (E.P.O.) is injected, which has the same effect with much less faffing about.

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And I will be very surprised if it does go to court.

Why would that be do you think?

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Why would that be do you think?

Bruyneel and the other guy will duck out along the Armstrong lines

But i think they'll release the evidence anyway

edit: if you're on twitter i recommend following the sports science guys, theraceradio, inrrng and shane stokes. incidentally i think these are the guys who Wiggo was calling nasty names but they seem to have been proved to be right and i think Wiggo got that wrong

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I've read up a ittle about this, and there were rumours of doping, but nothing ever came of it. Obviously, detection techniques have come on a long way since Viren's day, but doping* was not illegal at the time.

*which is a different technique to the modern version of 'doping'. Back in the day, it involved taking and storing blood, then transfusing it back into the body. These days, synthetic erythropoietin (E.P.O.) is injected, which has the same effect with much less faffing about.

I think the allegations are that they do transfuse blood still as one of the methods for catching them is to look for the presence of the plasticisers of the blood bag in the sample.

One of the methods i've read about is that certain cyclists train with all kinds of drugs in their blood then store this oxygen rich blood for it to be transfused during a race. The timings need to be right for this as if not done at the right time traces of the drug, for example clenbuterol, can be present in small amounts during an event when athletes are more likely to be tested

i also think that this is one of Landis allegations. That Armstrong had a bus set up for transfusions whilst they were supposed to be on training rides!

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Its all very unsatisfactory. Long years of following professional road racing - but never being fast enough to catch the buggers - has taught me that it would be hard to find a more awkward, devious and difficult bunch of people. I just don't know who to believe, who to trust.

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Bruyneel and the other guy will duck out along the Armstrong lines

But i think they'll release the evidence anyway

edit: if you're on twitter i recommend following the sports science guys, theraceradio, inrrng and shane stokes. incidentally i think these are the guys who Wiggo was calling nasty names but they seem to have been proved to be right and i think Wiggo got that wrong

I thought that was probably what you were driving at. I hope it doesn't happen but it wouldn't surprise me if you were right.

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Lots of big name cyclists will be having a bad nights sleep. Plenty of people who thought they were in the clear...

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That report is completely damning and leaves no room for doubt that the man who once claimed seven Tour titles is possibly the greatest sports cheat ever.

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the ###### has well and truly hit the fan, Saville style, the only difference being that Armstrong is alive. He did great things for cycling and for charity too, but now the weight of testimony and circumstantial evidence is overwhelming, just like for Saviile. And just like the MPs who did so much good for their constituents at the same time as cheating on expenses. What the ###### is wrong with everyone?

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the ###### has well and truly hit the fan, Saville style, the only difference being that Armstrong is alive. He did great things for cycling and for charity too, but now the weight of testimony and circumstantial evidence is overwhelming, just like for Saviile. And just like the MPs who did so much good for their constituents at the same time as cheating on expenses. What the ###### is wrong with everyone?

£££££££££

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A liar, a bully, a cheat ...

If you believe otherwise you're deluded: http://espn.go.com/e...e-whether-doped

You'd have to have your head planted firmly up your backside to believe otherwise.

I'm not shocked by the revelation he cheated but I'm taken aback by the scale of the deception and the associated evidence.

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