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Birchy

Salford

95 posts in this topic

I'd already read it. So on that basis SL is going into freefall is it?

But then again you also have inside knowledge from 'people within the game' . Who are these people? I bet it's secret isn't it?

no it's not a secret. i'm just not telling you.

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At least half of the 'elite' comp is experiencing serious difficulties Chris. Anecdotally, I'm hearing from players and ex employees that Huddersfield aren't in great shape either.

We can no longer guarantee our best players stay in league - they go to union!

We are as far behind the aussies as ever - but we agree, there are a zillion other reasons for this.

We have had more clubs up sh it creek in such a short space of time than I can remember.

The RFL's own scrutiny has been left wanting.

There perseverence with Crusaders, despite evidence to the contrary, and the RFL's involvement in the visa fiasco, moving sticks to wrexham etc, left the RFL looking - I'll use embarrassed ....I could use a plethora of other descriptors.

The inability to adress the gap twixt SL and the game below SL.

The absence of any 'where to we go from here plan'... It's the "we have licencing now and we're stickjing with it cos it's the best thing ever and by the time we properly evaluate it and the games gone down the U bend, it'll be too late, but ne'er mind eh" that still agrieves me.

There have always been clubs going ar se upards - including our own. But since licencing was introduced there does appear to have been many more high profile 'difficulties' than I can ever remember.

You think the game is not on it's botty?? I think it is!! C'est la vie. There goes a difference of opinion.

Your definition of not being on it's ar se and mine are evidently different.

when the game is in the state it was in the 70s(them wot days), then I'll agree with you.

Would this state of affairs-game on ass/knees or whatever have happened under the previous way the game was run? Would have been worse? We don't know. But the game was run in a far less professional way before and for a while after 1995.

Is it the system or the acts of individuals? Well it's always nice to blame somebody-and in the case of Crusaders somebody should have got the sack, but overall if individuals are responsible, thren it's IMHO at club level.

Will these clubs and SL survive? I reckon so. Will people learn from this? Some will some won't: c'est la vie.

edit: anyway, time to crank the SG up. I'ver got a lesson at 2 o clock-CAGED and all that

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no it's not a secret. i'm just not telling you.

you forgot to put 'so there', on the end

you child.

Do you think I give a flying #### about you non 'secrets'?

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you forgot to put 'so there', on the end

you child.

Do you think I give a flying #### about you non 'secrets'?

calm down dear.

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Featherstone are a much better run club than in the past but my question would be how long can we keep it up? How long before the current bod get fed up and leave? I think superleague is a closed shop to clubs like ours, id like to believe otherwise but i dont. And if this is the case i think people like mark cambell will eventually get fed up and leave. Where would we be then?

I sincierly hope that this isnt the case and teams like ours and fax get a fair chance at superleague or otherwise i fear for their futures

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Featherstone are a much better run club than in the past but my question would be how long can we keep it up? How long before the current bod get fed up and leave? I think superleague is a closed shop to clubs like ours, id like to believe otherwise but i dont. And if this is the case i think people like mark cambell will eventually get fed up and leave. Where would we be then?

I sincierly hope that this isnt the case and teams like ours and fax get a fair chance at superleague or otherwise i fear for their futures

Fax have been in super league

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And I think what irks people is not so much that clubs are still going belly up despite the sky money and predominatley super league clubs. This is the league where we were told that there would be no more boom and bust!

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This is the league where we were told that there would be no more boom and bust!

I'm sure I've heard that somewhere outside RL too. :blink::lol:

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And I think what irks people is not so much that clubs are still going belly up despite the sky money and predominatley super league clubs. This is the league where we were told that there would be no more boom and bust!

don't recall that

and I don't recall the boom parts of thre previousd era either

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don't recall that

and I don't recall the boom parts of thre previousd era either

That's one of the quotes Mo used when selling SL to the proletariat way back when Chris.

Whether there was boom or bust in previous administrations is largely irrelevant now Chris. This is now. Northern have gone down the pan this year. There are few, if any comparisons to be made to Northerns previous demise in the 60's.

Clubs that are going to the wall now are doing so in the Summer/SL/licencing era. An era precided over until recently by woods/lewis who's spin on the licencing/finances have been wholly stacking their weight behind a system they believe in and would contribute in minimising such collapses as Northen, Salford, HKR, Crusaders, Wakey etc etc etc.

It's what we do now that matters. Not 1977. From what I see - there isn't a plan. Just carry on regardless.

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That's one of the quotes Mo used when selling SL to the proletariat way back when Chris.

Whether there was boom or bust in previous administrations is largely irrelevant now Chris. This is now. Northern have gone down the pan this year. There are few, if any comparisons to be made to Northerns previous demise in the 60's.

Clubs that are going to the wall now are doing so in the Summer/SL/licencing era. An era precided over until recently by woods/lewis who's spin on the licencing/finances have been wholly stacking their weight behind a system they believe in and would contribute in minimising such collapses as Northen, Salford, HKR, Crusaders, Wakey etc etc etc.

It's what we do now that matters. Not 1977. From what I see - there isn't a plan. Just carry on regardless.

it wasn't me who invoked boom and bust.

what could the RFL have done about gthe ###### business decisons taken by the Bulls and Hull KR for instance? The Harris and Mason fisacos must have cost them a fortune. It's thre clubs that need to plan, and act in a responsible way.

The Bulls haven't 'gone down the pan'.

It is what we do now that that matters: but there are those that hanker for what was in place in 1977 right up to 1995. I'm not sure what plans were in place then.

What form should the plans you say are non existent take?

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and how did fax get into super league?

they were inaugural members

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they were inaugural members

let me put it another way, do you believe a club like ours or fax will replace any current team in sl under licensing because i dont

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let me put it another way, do you believe a club like ours or fax will replace any current team in sl under licensing because i dont

How does this relate to the discussion?

Are you suggesting if it wasn't the case everything would be fine?

If no clubs were having trouble with cash then rugby league would be unique in sport.

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it wasn't me who invoked boom and bust.

what could the RFL have done about gthe ###### business decisons taken by the Bulls and Hull KR for instance? The Harris and Mason fisacos must have cost them a fortune. It's thre clubs that need to plan, and act in a responsible way.

I totally agree, but im struggling to reconcile the above with your earlier position that licencing is leading to clubs being run more professionaly.

It appears that one the one hand you are saying look at clubs A,B & C they are run so much more professionaly now because licencing pushes them in that direction. Yet when faced with the mismanagement of X,Y & Z you say of course we cant stop administrators making poor decisions. Getting people to make good decisions and stopping them making bad ones are part of the same process, arn't they? Surely any system can either do both or none?

Of course there will always be failures due to exceptional circumstances that couldn't reasonably be planned for. But thats not the case, Bradford, Crusaders, Wakey, Salford etc.. in none of these cases is anyone suggesting they are victims of bad luck there is a consistent theme, poor decision making. If the system that is supposed, amongst other things i grant you, to help stop these financial problems occuring is incapable of addressing the most common cause can it really be viewed as working in this area?

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There is no consequence for financial mismanagement, a new 'saviour' takes over and the cycle starts again.

Now if there was a guaranteed automatic demotion from current league to the one below (and all the associated penalties, lack of income from sponsorship, lower crowds etc) maybe, just maybe that may deter soe from choosing that path.

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There is no consequence for financial mismanagement, a new 'saviour' takes over and the cycle starts again.

Now if there was a guaranteed automatic demotion from current league to the one below (and all the associated penalties, lack of income from sponsorship, lower crowds etc) maybe, just maybe that may deter soe from choosing that path.

In an ideal world id prefer to see far stronger sporting sanctions than we currently have. Im far from convinced it would have any preventative effect though.

If we take Wakey & Bradford as examples the people sanctioning the spending have been punished. Ted Richardson, Chris Caisley, Peter Hood etc.. they no longer own the clubs, they didnt get a penny from the sale and any directors loans have been lost. If the prospect of that didnt stop them it seems unlikely that relegating the club after they have lost it would have any effect on them.

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If no clubs were having trouble with cash then rugby league would be unique in sport.

Isn't that what the ending of P&R was for? Clubs have no fear of relegation, most know they have no chance of winning anything, yet they still can't manage the books. It would be good for the game if Bradford put out a statement that next year they were only going to spend on players what they could afford, and they would expect all the fans who made pledges to stand by them, no matter what the consequences.

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In an ideal world id prefer to see far stronger sporting sanctions than we currently have. Im far from convinced it would have any preventative effect though.

If we take Wakey & Bradford as examples the people sanctioning the spending have been punished. Ted Richardson, Chris Caisley, Peter Hood etc.. they no longer own the clubs, they didnt get a penny from the sale and any directors loans have been lost. If the prospect of that didnt stop them it seems unlikely that relegating the club after they have lost it would have any effect on them.

Are you sure about loans etc not being repaid to former directors , I could tell you of various shenanigans that surrounded the richardson family departing belle vue

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I totally agree, but im struggling to reconcile the above with your earlier position that licencing is leading to clubs being run more professionaly.

It appears that one the one hand you are saying look at clubs A,B & C they are run so much more professionaly now because licencing pushes them in that direction. Yet when faced with the mismanagement of X,Y & Z you say of course we cant stop administrators making poor decisions. Getting people to make good decisions and stopping them making bad ones are part of the same process, arn't they? Surely any system can either do both or none?

Of course there will always be failures due to exceptional circumstances that couldn't reasonably be planned for. But thats not the case, Bradford, Crusaders, Wakey, Salford etc.. in none of these cases is anyone suggesting they are victims of bad luck there is a consistent theme, poor decision making. If the system that is supposed, amongst other things i grant you, to help stop these financial problems occuring is incapable of addressing the most common cause can it really be viewed as working in this area?

you can lead a horse to water but...

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Isn't that what the ending of P&R was for? Clubs have no fear of relegation, most know they have no chance of winning anything, yet they still can't manage the books. It would be good for the game if Bradford put out a statement that next year they were only going to spend on players what they could afford, and they would expect all the fans who made pledges to stand by them, no matter what the consequences.

an aspect of it for sure-the dreaded ruinous yo yo syndrome. It also meant that clubs could be introduced to SL strategically: this has been extremely successful in terms of Catalan Dragons, less so with PSG, Gateshead and Crusaders, Workington and Oldham. PSG a bad idea, Gateshead premature introduction of an underfunded club, Crusaders a triumph a triumph of naivety, Workington and OLdham introduced purely because one was in Cumbria one was in the Greter manchester conurbation: both classic yo yo clubs and therefore threadbare in finance, facilities and basic professionalism. Don't forget that promotion and relegation has taken place in the SL era also clubs that have been promoted and relegated.

I agree with you final statement, although I'd guess that many Bulls fans will just be glad that their club has been rescued

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an aspect of it for sure-the dreaded ruinous yo yo syndrome. It also meant that clubs could be introduced to SL strategically: this has been extremely successful in terms of Catalan Dragons, less so with PSG, Gateshead and Crusaders, Workington and Oldham. PSG a bad idea, Gateshead premature introduction of an underfunded club, Crusaders a triumph a triumph of naivety, Workington and OLdham introduced purely because one was in Cumbria one was in the Greter manchester conurbation: both classic yo yo clubs and therefore threadbare in finance, facilities and basic professionalism. Don't forget that promotion and relegation has taken place in the SL era also clubs that have been promoted and relegated.

I agree with you final statement, although I'd guess that many Bulls fans will just be glad that their club has been rescued

Leaving aside the fact that neither Oldham nor Workington were 'strategic' introductions, 1 success out of 6 (7 if you count both incarnations of Crusaders) is hardly a ringing endorsement of the RFL's strategic nous, And as for threadbare in finance clubs, add to that list Cas (who the RFL bent the rules for to allow them to be promoted back to SL), Salford and Hull KR plus Hudds, Widnes and London totally dependent on 'sugar daddies' and as for Bradford...

So over half the clubs essentially not fit for purpose. What a fantastic endorsement of the success of the SL world.

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