Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

gingerjon

Hillsborough (merged threads)

116 posts in this topic

Irvine Patnick was a particularly nasty individual even by 1989 Conservative Party standards.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, if I understand thing correctly.

1. There had been previous incidents

2. Sheffield Wednesday Football club had been warned that their ground was not safe.

3. The local authorities and the club let the game go ahead despite this

4. When the inevitable happened, the police and emergency services did not respond adequately.

5. the police then embarked on a deliberate cover up and deliberately misled the media and politicians, many of whom wanted to believe what they had been told rather than questioning it.

6. That cover up continued for many years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very emotional afternoon for sure. Vindication of the campaign but justice has yet to be seen to be done

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As well as Kelvin MacKenzie's weaselly apology, the original author of that Sun article is 'aghast' at the choice of headline. All of a sudden, like.

Now the cynical side of me would suggest that the tosser mackenzie had this statement prepared many moons ago for an event such as this. No contrition on that ballbags behalf at all. and the south yorkshire police had the date wrong, which tells me they hadn't prepared a statement

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, if I understand thing correctly.

1. There had been previous incidents

2. Sheffield Wednesday Football club had been warned that their ground was not safe.

3. The local authorities and the club let the game go ahead despite this

4. When the inevitable happened, the police and emergency services did not respond adequately.

5. the police then embarked on a deliberate cover up and deliberately misled the media and politicians, many of whom wanted to believe what they had been told rather than questioning it.

6. That cover up continued for many years.

The 1981 semi played between Spurs and Wolves at Hillsborough witnessed fans being ushered onto the pitch due to overcrowding. From what I have read of the incident, it appears a newly-built wall collapsed. Tottenham were awarded the Leppings Lane End, despite the club's overwhelming support.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I ask this in all innocence as I haven't followed this subject as closely as others

I keep hearing this phrase.

justice has yet to be seen to be done

What would actually constitute justice, ie what does anyone involved want the conclusion/outcome/actions to be?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I ask this in all innocence as I haven't followed this subject as closely as others

I keep hearing this phrase.

What would actually constitute justice, ie what does anyone involved want the conclusion/outcome/actions to be?

I would guess criminal charges against those responsible for the disaster and any cover up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I ask this in all innocence as I haven't followed this subject as closely as others

I keep hearing this phrase.

What would actually constitute justice, ie what does anyone involved want the conclusion/outcome/actions to be?

that those actually in a position to have been accountable for the disaster, face the justice system. Nothing more nothing less

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

..more than just the cover up but also the negligence leading up to it.....and some recompense for the costs of the 23 year fight for justice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I ask this in all innocence as I haven't followed this subject as closely as others

I keep hearing this phrase.

What would actually constitute justice, ie what does anyone involved want the conclusion/outcome/actions to be?

For mine there are a few things, some of which have happened today.

The first was the absolute and total removal of any suggestion of guilt from the dead themselves and the other fans there that day. The second was an acceptance that the 3.15pm cut off used at the inquest was ludicrous and wrong. Both those things have now happened but they should now lead to a new inquest looking at, where possible, the individual deaths themselves and now the totality of the day.

The final thing, for justice, is that a staggering criminal conspiracy has been laid bare. Not just besmirching the names of the dead, the injured, the survivors and the bereaved but removing from evidence and hiding from view the negligence and contempt that caused the deaths of 96 people. Those responsible should face the law.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

People who have done far less than Kelvin McKenzie did when he printed that headline and story are never seen again on TV and we don't have to listen to their drivel.

Will the same be true of him?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I see all that but I also just keep hearing slogans and vagueness

I guess the first in line will be South Yorkshire Police

Then who? Will that be the end of it and a line be drawn or will this subject rumble on and others be pursued? If so who?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I see all that but I also just keep hearing slogans and vagueness

I guess the first in line will be South Yorkshire Police

Then who? Will that be the end of it and a line be drawn or will this subject rumble on and others be pursued? If so who?

maybe you are playing devils advocate, maybe you are just thick, maybe you should do some research and come back without prejudice. Your questions have been answered, why assume south yorks police would be first in line? go look it up if answers here are vague

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

maybe you are playing devils advocate, maybe you are just thick, maybe you should do some research and come back without prejudice. Your questions have been answered, why assume south yorks police would be first in line? go look it up if answers here are vague

Having seen a few minutes of the press conference at the cathedral on the news I simply wondered if this is a subject that can ever be concluded and what actions it would practically take for those so tragically involved to ever be at rest about it

It was always risky asking on here, where people are quick to jump down others throats.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I see all that but I also just keep hearing slogans and vagueness

I guess the first in line will be South Yorkshire Police

Then who? Will that be the end of it and a line be drawn or will this subject rumble on and others be pursued? If so who?

Rumble on? Twenty-three years of lies were revealed less than 9 hours ago.

A line be drawn? Not one single person has faced any kind of justice yet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

no, I am not quick to jump down anyones throat but you have to accept this can be an inflamatory subject if posted without a little thought or consideration. I am still mindful of this cropping up a few years ago and one or two posters were of the opinion of what the authorities and media said was gospel.

In my humble opinion, what occurred today achieved two things

1) those present at the game and indeed the people of merseyside, can after 23 years feel exonerated of blame, for any of the allegations (unsubstantiated) leveled against them

2) the families of those that lost loved ones, now have a direction to go to persue closure for their loss of loved ones

as an aside but relevant to 1 and 2

those that were responsible/culpable for the deaths of 96 people, hopefully will now face justice for their actions/inactions.

whether families who suffered loss will actually be at rest is unknown.............but the families who have been deceived for so long, deserve the chance of justice, doing what it should do to find out.

hope this helps

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After 23 years, the families of the 96 have been proved to have been correct.

They were proved to be correct 22 years ago.

Now it is all in the open and everyone can just carry on as though nothing happened. No-one will be punished and there will still be idiots who believe what was in the Sun over what they saw on television. The official verdict is all very nice, now that time has removed all impact.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why did it take 23 years?

Scepticism (by me included) about scousers and their motives for anything and everything they always whinge about.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is one of the more shocking images to emerge over the last couple of days that was published on Twitter. Fans trying to help fans, police with backs turned. left me speechless.

A2bNQM6CYAEOhsL.jpg

this makes me feel sick!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Scepticism (by me included) about scousers and their motives for anything and everything they always whinge about.

Which goes to prove the old adage: "tell a lie big enough and often enough and it becomes the accepted truth".

It just goes to prove that it is very dangerous to consign any group of people to a stereotype. There are 1.3m people in the Merseyside area, and surprisingly enough not all are trackie wearing, perm sporting, be-tached scallies on the make. Across Liverpool and Merseyside there is a rich mixture of all types and class of people, just like any other place in the country and indeed the world. Consigning groups of people into stereotypes is something we as rugby league fans should be particularly concious of; how often have we had to fight against an image of us that is often portrayed in the media as cloth cap wearing, whippet breeding northern dolts who only use the bath for storing coal in?

The fact is scousers are no more whingers than cockneys, geordies or even wiganers. But in this instance they had something to ###### well whinge about.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Scepticism (by me included) about scousers and their motives for anything and everything they always whinge about.

Moaning scousers, eh?

Claire McGlone was a toddler when her father, Alan, was killed at Hillsborough. She has grown to know her father, who was 28, through the prism of the disaster and the investigation of the independent panel

"I was 13 or 14, I think, when I started knowing my dad was in a crowd and there were a few people and people got hurt. Everything from my dad's body, files, statements, any bit of camera evidence we could get our hands on, we have.

"The video footage we've seen is just horrendous. Just knowing when you are looking at what's happening there are people standing there not helping, they're not helping my dad.

"A policeman says he appeared dead. Now I don't know how you appear when you are dead but he doesn't check him.

"I just think [the report] is going to bring a level of understanding."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i believe this goes much deeper.

Any statements given by the police officers who lied, will now be called into question. This must mean that hundreds if not thousands of cases have to be called into question.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.