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Old Frightful

Hull KR's Scott Taylor on his way to Wigan?

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The system just does not promote parity of player production. It's the league's fault, plain and simple, and I've better things to spend my hard-earned cash on than a selling team. I'd sooner see us in a level-field Championship.

The much maligned Gary hetherington led the way in young player recruitment and development around ten or more years ago.

Hudgell had a go at other top clubs and their attitude, but leaves Gary out.

But the fact is all clubs have known for years that they needed to produce their own players,and all clubs have been made to do it with academies being an SL requirement. Wether clubs have failed to recognise talent and develop it or wether there's less talent about many people have differing views and no doubt the answer lies in the middle.

But the success of Saints and Wigan over many many years has stimulated a lot of junior RL in their areas and quality players coming through. Failure in Widnes seems to have led to the junior production system failing and going relatively dormant. How much junior RL is there in Salford?? How does Hull and HKR cope chasing the same players. The SL champions have seen several new junior clubs in Leeds develop. Cas produce them in quantity but can't keep them.

That's "how it is" and the disparity can be traced back many many years, but how is it that it's the "Leagues fault plain and simple"?

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DSK - I am not sure I would give up. Today's selling club is tomorrow's buying club. Trinity and Widnes were both at death's door not so long ago, and are now looking forward to a happier future. When I started watching Wigan, we couldn't even sign the best St Pat's players because the club was so low in the scheme of things (and promptly sank lower still). The only thing I will predict with certainty is that things will change.

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A Google image search, why, did you take it?

Interestingly, there was a different one of Holdstock with his arm round a young fan but it was a bit big to put on here. The lad looked a bit like you but it can't have been as Holdstock still had hair so it was probably before you were born.

No I just have it on my site so thought you might have taken a butcher's. Some good old pictures knocking about though!

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Look at this another way also. How many fans does the loss of Taylor lose Rovers (and thus SL) through the turnstiles? I’ll hazard a conservative guess of 2K. Average gate of maybe 7K (and this with the new stand) next year? It’s hard to argue that there won’t be a net fall off.

And how many fans does it gain Wigan, the best team in the league? None. Not one. They’re already the best team in the league. The RFL really need to bear this in mind when they prepare their next “Super League attendances rocketing” press release. It’s the relative parity that I think has helped in the last few years and this is a massive backward step in that regard.

And how many points will Wigan put on us next season, considering they’re already miles better than us? I’ll set the over/under at 60. But thankfully won’t have wasted a penny for the “privilige” of watching.

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Look at this another way also. How many fans does the loss of Taylor lose Rovers (and thus SL) through the turnstiles? I’ll hazard a conservative guess of 2K. Average gate of maybe 7K (and this with the new stand) next year? It’s hard to argue that there won’t be a net fall off.

So you're saying that Taylor's loss will mean HKR's gates are down by at least 2k on this years! Seriously?

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same as this year minus clinton and taylor what about Watts?????? did u forget about him cause you wont have been watching the play offs will ya hahaha

Don't count Watts as he certainly never played for us this year so we have lost nothing. Everyone knows he has the ability just his attitude and commitment that are the problem. If FC can keep him on the straight and narrow you have a fine player, just the keeping him on the straight and narrow that was the problem. Matterson at Cas gave up on him so did Morgan and now Sandercock, if FC have the ability to sort him out well done to them.

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Saints also in the mix for Taylor apparently, and with his agent being David Howe former Saints CEO, could make Saints favourites to sign him...

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Look at this another way also. How many fans does the loss of Taylor lose Rovers (and thus SL) through the turnstiles? I’ll hazard a conservative guess of 2K. Average gate of maybe 7K (and this with the new stand) next year? It’s hard to argue that there won’t be a net fall off.

And how many fans does it gain Wigan, the best team in the league? None. Not one. They’re already the best team in the league. The RFL really need to bear this in mind when they prepare their next “Super League attendances rocketing” press release. It’s the relative parity that I think has helped in the last few years and this is a massive backward step in that regard.

And how many points will Wigan put on us next season, considering they’re already miles better than us? I’ll set the over/under at 60. But thankfully won’t have wasted a penny for the “privilige” of watching.

Well that's completely and utterly defeatist. I'm glad there aren't many with the same opinion. Everyone would have given up on the game years ago.

It goes with the sort of mantra I heard on RLFans: we'll never have the money to challenge so I won't be going.

How are they meant to get the money with "support" like that. If you don't want to watch them because they are going through a tough patch, that's your choice. But spreading doom and gloom will achieve what?

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Saints also in the mix for Taylor apparently, and with his agent being David Howe former Saints CEO, could make Saints favourites to sign him...

Doubt it,Saints would'nt pay £10k for Chris Hill,what a mistake thats turned out to be

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Well that's completely and utterly defeatist. I'm glad there aren't many with the same opinion. Everyone would have given up on the game years ago.

It goes with the sort of mantra I heard on RLFans: we'll never have the money to challenge so I won't be going.

How are they meant to get the money with "support" like that. If you don't want to watch them because they are going through a tough patch, that's your choice. But spreading doom and gloom will achieve what?

Couldn't put it much better than that.

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I actually am quite happy with how we are shaping up for next year, we have certainly been more competative this year in all our games. No one has blown us away so with a bit of luck and a bit more belief and confidence then we should be able to pick up some more wins next year. We need a lot of work on the defence in the off season though.

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Doubt it,Saints would'nt pay £10k for Chris Hill,what a mistake thats turned out to be

Wasnt that they wouldnt pay it, Hill had reportedly shook hands on a deal with Saints then he turned his back when Wolves came in with a substantially larger offer, same happened with Griffin going to Leeds and not Saints.

Also, Taylor is what 21? 22? Hill was 29

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Well that's completely and utterly defeatist. I'm glad there aren't many with the same opinion. Everyone would have given up on the game years ago.

If you don't want to watch them because they are going through a tough patch, that's your choice. But spreading doom and gloom will achieve what?

There are surely many with the same opinion as you can pick out any one of many many clubs to find people of the same opinion? Why do only 2,000 go to Halifax when 6,000 used to go? Where are the 4,000 Oldham fans nowadays? Where did 7,500 Rovers fans go when they dropped to the second division?? Where did thousands of Hull Boulevard fans go when they stopped winning in the eighties???

Thousands have left the game, thousands have come in. It's wishful thinking to believe that every fan our clubs attract will suddenly stand up, not be defeatist and carry on supporting their club when it starts losing.

I do not see how Keeny is spreading doom and gloom?? He's discussing the halting of investment at Hull KR and the start of the effect of that, which is fair enough to do.

He has also offered on a positive note to carry on supporting Rovers if they went back to the Championship and is one of the very few fans who WOULD support a Hull merger and don the red/black/white. If the other 8,499 HKR fans would do the same you'd have 20,000 crowds at the KC every match.

I think with respect your attack is unjustified.

Keeny also discusses how if Superleague could find a way to have all the clubs competing, there may be less fans walking away from the lower SL clubs. That's a positive thought for me......

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He has also offered on a positive note to carry on supporting Rovers if they went back to the Championship and is one of the very few fans who WOULD support a Hull merger and don the red/black/white. If the other 8,499 HKR fans would do the same you'd have 20,000 crowds at the KC every match.

That is true but the majority of Rovers fans would not support a merged side, or at least not straight away. It would probably miss out a generation. And those that do, well, it depends if they start losing ;)

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I'll be very surprised if this player ends up at Wigan.

Get ready for the "stolen from under Wigan's noses" or "rejected Wigan in favour of...." headlines.

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I can't really see any player knocking 2k off a crowd attendance. Especially one so young.

People are complaining that it's not fair. But realistically what do people want it is a sporting competition and so competition is the nature of the game. It's easy to say when your club is doing relatively well, but I fail to see any other option. The RFL can impose as many restrictions as they like but the nature of competition is that clubs will compete. On the match day and for playing staff.

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That is true but the majority of Rovers fans would not support a merged side, or at least not straight away. It would probably miss out a generation. And those that do, well, it depends if they start losing ;)

Yes I get your last point :)

The stats do show Hull's crowds grew without the HKR factor then as you say they started losing.

The problem with merger is of course you cannot make Rovers fans merged club fans just like that.

There was a time Hunslet and Leeds had sizeable fanbases either side of the river, there's now a time leeds has very big fanbase both sides of the river.

It could be more than one generation - who knows, but these things do happen, new fans do have a choice whereto go old fans do move clubs but what I couldn't swallow was the excuse a few years back that if Rovers merged with FC, all of east Hull would go over to soccer.

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The easiest way to achieve one team for the whole of Hull would be a completely new franchise for Super League with the existing clubs put into the championship. A fair few would continue to watch their original club, in preference to the new club, me included.

Part of what makes RL so successful in Hull is the two team rivalry.

Rugby has been losing fans to soccer for 120 years. Any demise of Hull KR would mean supporters looking for another sport rather than switch sides. I know a Keighley fan who switched to soccer when they were denied promotion.

I suspect all of this talk is premature and expect Hull KR to finish higher up the table next season!

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1. Part of what makes RL so successful in Hull is the two team rivalry.

2. Rugby has been losing fans to soccer for 120 years. Any demise of Hull KR would mean supporters looking for another sport rather than switch sides.

3. I suspect all of this talk is premature and expect Hull KR to finish higher up the table next season!

1. What success is this? Wigan, Wire, Saints and Leeds win everything.

2. Super League clubs have been gaining fans this last decade. The worry is not losing fans it's losing millions of pounds.

3. I hope so but it's a debate site we can look forward as well as back.

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1. What success is this? Wigan, Wire, Saints and Leeds win everything.

2. Super League clubs have been gaining fans this last decade. The worry is not losing fans it's losing millions of pounds.

3. I hope so but it's a debate site we can look forward as well as back.

1. It depends on your version of success, the game of RL in general in Hull is doing well with 5 clubs in the top flight of the amateur game and 2 sides in the the top flight of the pro game.

2. Maybe but over the last 20 years clubs not in Super League have lost fans hand over fist, and the game below Super League is given no thought or care by anyone in authority. Also how scary is that that clubs have higher crowds and still losing so much money, some would say that is an indication we are scr*wed

3. I also think we will finish higher next year and overall don't think we have had that bad a year, the number of close games we have been involved in with a little more confidence, composure and belief we could easily have won an extra 5 or 6 games. Thats just how it goes sometimes.

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1. It depends on your version of success, the game of RL in general in Hull is doing well with 5 clubs in the top flight of the amateur game and 2 sides in the the top flight of the pro game.

2. Maybe but over the last 20 years clubs not in Super League have lost fans hand over fist, and the game below Super League is given no thought or care by anyone in authority. Also how scary is that that clubs have higher crowds and still losing so much money, some would say that is an indication we are scr*wed

3. I also think we will finish higher next year and overall don't think we have had that bad a year, the number of close games we have been involved in with a little more confidence, composure and belief we could easily have won an extra 5 or 6 games. Thats just how it goes sometimes.

I wish you all the best sir, above that I wish your strength as a Rugby League City could be used to knock the usual suspects of their perches.....

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1. What success is this? Wigan, Wire, Saints and Leeds win everything.

2. Super League clubs have been gaining fans this last decade. The worry is not losing fans it's losing millions of pounds.

3. I hope so but it's a debate site we can look forward as well as back.

1. No other city in the has as many RL supporters as Hull. I call that success. If success was about winning things, let's have a four team Super League and the rest of us can stop wasting our Sunday afternoons.

2. I haven't checked the numbers, but RL as a whole hasn't gained many fans in that time. Some of the fans SL has gained aren't paying much or anything to attend, hence Bradford's situation. My other half calls herself a Wire fan. She only goes when she gets a free ticket. I know someone else who does the same at Wakefield. It's good that they are kept in touch with the game.

3. I agree with Brigg Rover on this. In my lifetime as a Hull KR fan, 10th in SL equals success, especially given the high number of narrow defeats, a new coach, players knowing they were leaving, new players, not having two halfbacks to field in most games, or any in some.

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1. No other city in the has as many RL supporters as Hull. I call that success. I agree with Brigg Rover on this. In my lifetime as a Hull KR fan, 10th in SL equals success,

Then all the very best to you and enjoy......

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So you're saying that Taylor's loss will mean HKR's gates are down by at least 2k on this years! Seriously?

Well, how do you think our gates will be affected?

He's our best young player and arguably even our best player (Dobson probably nicking that one). We've just finished 10th of 14 and his is the most notable of our (probable) off-season of asset stripping.

Are you saying we look a stronger side for next season? You think crowds will stabilise or increase as a result of this? That would be an interesting point of view and I would like to know your reasoning. Of course the hardcore of season ticket holders will queue up once again but the sizeable number of floaters will quite understandably choose to keep their hard-earned cash in their pockets or maybe even bail in favour of FC. That's just the nature of sport, I'm afraid. Players come and go but crowds will rightly lose patience when too many calibre players leave. That Hudgell has tried his damndest to keep ours and clearly isn't on some "sell to survive" EPL style agenda really shows what a top-heavy mess this league is in.

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I understand Hudge's said, 'I'm sick of players taking the #### out of the club' or words to that effect. Make of that what you will but I bet it has something to do with a player agent.

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