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hindle xiii

Bradford and Dewsbury link up

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even for you parky, that was the most arrogant and ridiculous drivel i have ever read...............championship clubs are the heart of our game and develop young players at a much higher rate than super league clubs, who's sole aim appears to be to recruit as many antipodeans on dodgy passports as possible.

And here we go yet again. Where does "arrogant" come from? What should I call you keyboard warrior???

How do "championship clubs (are the heart of our game and) develop young players at a much higher rate than super league clubs"

What we are talking about here is the development Superleague players. I suggest you count up how many Superleague players come from Batley, York, Keighley, Doncaster, Sheffield, Hunslet, Rochdale, Barrow and Dewsbury. You couldn't even make one team up with the number.

None of these Championship clubs and others can ever get a side together to compete in SL because the few quality players in their areas choose to go straight to SL clubs from their amateur clubs.

The heart of our game is the junior amateur game and the schools.

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So how's the salary cap going to work so that it doesn't compromise the integrity of the competition? How can it be a fair competition?

AFAIK It's not going to work and it isn't going to be fair Terry, but I suggest you check with Red Hall and also ask the RL press to investigate this, they have journos who COULD dig into what's going on. I will wait and see if Hunslet knock your lads off the top of the Championship, if they do I won't cheer out of respect.....

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The maximum number of players allowed is 5. Alot of clubs already had players in and out out of the squad on loans and dual reg. All this does is give Dewsbury options.

Maxumum of 5, really? Other clubs entering into these partnetships ate quoting up to 6, but be clear its not 5 or 6 players on loan or dr. As the release says its 5/6 players from a pool that changes on weekly basis. Glen Morrison will choose his own team but Francis Cummins will be choosing approx a third of the squad. Contrary to the spin various clubs appear keen to promote this is not similar to previous arrangments it is very different.

There are now at least 4 of these partnerships yet we still dont know what the rules are. A cynic could be forgiven for wondering if someone in a position of power has decided they are going to be hard to sell.

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My actual problem with all this, is the junior set up system. Frankly from my point of view it's failed. SL money has been thrown at junior academies without unveiling any more top class talent than the old system. In fact the number of pretty average players are being sold the dream far more than ever before.

All this arrangement does is perpetuate a fundamental problem. It offers relatively average talent another competition to play in rather than an academy competition.

The fact is neither the championship nor the academy system can force average academy players to spring wings. Neither can our game support the number of average players at the level they expect to play in; i.e SL.

The real problem for the RFL is to find a way of sorting this problem out rather than papering over the cracks.

In my opinion professional clubs have a responsibility to sign players it can conceivably offer a game, and run their club in accordance with the needs of the competitions it enters. Bradford had no desire to play in the Championship so why should the Championship be used as a method of hoarding average players it will likely discard?

The amateur side of the game has proven historically to hold the key to developing talent as they have no choice but to do so. All professional clubs should foster these relationships and invest time and money here rather than the SL and championship clubs playing at it.

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You seem to indicate that a club has a right to the players and fans in their area??

If that was a right and was enforced, Superleague would collapse then the game itself would collapse.

No I'm referring to the ease with which they keep other people's money.

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Oh my gawd here we go again.

I'm not slating anyone and I am not defending anyone, can't you discuss a situation without drawing battle lines??

Amateur clubs in Championship areas have provided around three dozen first team Superleague players to Superleague. Superleague develops it's own players from local junior clubs too, but only four clubs could make up a Superleague side from locals.

And so the game has to ship in going on for 80 overseas players

Simple, the game does not produce enough quality players and those that appear in Championship club areas go straight to Superleague and by pass the Championship clubs.

That is surely wrong, Doncaster Toll Bar alone have supplied a good few players who have gone on to Super League clubs including Ian Kirke

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even for you parky, that was the most arrogant and ridiculous drivel i have ever read...............championship clubs are the heart of our game and develop young players at a much higher rate than super league clubs, who's sole aim appears to be to recruit as many antipodeans on dodgy passports as possible.

Is that made up?

There appears to be far more SL club developed players in the Championships than Championship club developed players in SL.

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There are now at least 4 of these partnerships yet we still dont know what the rules are. A cynic could be forgiven for wondering if someone in a position of power has decided they are going to be hard to sell.

But they aren't hard to sell at all as the deal is done at Leeds/Hunslet and at Bradford/Dewsbury and other places.

As soon as this emerged Sheffield and Featherstone naturally took it very hard and their coaches spoke out against it. They wouldn't buy it. But they are silent now, what can they do when fellow Championship clubs are buying the deal??

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Maybe, and this might be way off beam, but perhaps they know a bit more about it and whether it benefits their club than you do?

Maybe they do. The games going in a direction I don't like, I think the professional clubs have messed about with academies long enough.

If they can't do it for themselves they are only sharing bad practice surely? From memory I can't recall a Dewsbury academy product that made SL, maybe someone could remind me? As for Bradford , they can spot class and have the money to buy it but do they have an academy with a history to be proud of?

For me the wee shoots that grow in the amateur game are not given long enough to suckle from the vine before they are plucked. Neither Bradford or Dewsbury can change the lack of progression in uncovering world class talent via the academy structure so lets find a way of letting the grass roots system finish the job.

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But they aren't hard to sell at all as the deal is done at Leeds/Hunslet and at Bradford/Dewsbury and other places.

As soon as this emerged Sheffield and Featherstone naturally took it very hard and their coaches spoke out against it. They wouldn't buy it. But they are silent now, what can they do when fellow Championship clubs are buying the deal??

It would appear that only Halifax, Sheffield and Featherstone are not looking to become a feeder club or have stated they aren't.. Be interesting to have the RFL announce what the rules are for this and what their "plan" is for the Championship. Surely they have one?

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Naturally people are seeing this as those nasty SL clubs getting everything their own way, but people seem to ignore the fact that all clubs throughout the game are having a tough time.

It's not that hard to believe that shared resources can absolutely help Championship clubs too.

I can certainly understand the nervousness around it, but let's not be too blinkered when judging it.

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It would appear that only Halifax, Sheffield and Featherstone are not looking to become a feeder club or have stated they aren't.. Be interesting to have the RFL announce what the rules are for this and what their "plan" is for the Championship. Surely they have one?

Aren't the rules just the same as the dual-registered players like last year?

Sharing marketing and training facilities is up to individual clubs surely?

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That is surely wrong, Doncaster Toll Bar alone have supplied a good few players who have gone on to Super League clubs including Ian Kirke

Yes I have Ian Kirke on my list as coming from Doncaster Marauder.

So we are agreed then? One??

I'm not being funny but people are often surprised at how few current SL first teamers come from places they think are hot beds of the game.

There are four Bradford born lads in the first teams of Superleague sides and four Dewsbury born lads. Even with a tie up like this Bradford will still be short of local talent as it stands.

Once the eighty Aussies/overseas players go home there won't be eighty professional quality young lads stepping up. Youth development is a big financial burden on SL as is the failure of many championship fans to abandon CC for Superleague. The tie ups in the mind of SL club chairmen it would seem solve these problems.

Save £100K a season and get Dewsbury fans to pay to come and cheer on Bradford "A".......

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But they aren't hard to sell at all as the deal is done at Leeds/Hunslet and at Bradford/Dewsbury and other places.

As soon as this emerged Sheffield and Featherstone naturally took it very hard and their coaches spoke out against it. They wouldn't buy it. But they are silent now, what can they do when fellow Championship clubs are buying the deal??

My bad, i meant hard to sell to supporters. Im sure the clubs know what they are signing up for. As a game we are not normally shy about publicising our inovation but in this case we seem to be less forthcoming than is usual.

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My actual problem with all this, is the junior set up system. Frankly from my point of view it's failed. SL money has been thrown at junior academies without unveiling any more top class talent than the old system. In fact the number of pretty average players are being sold the dream far more than ever before.

The amateur side of the game has proven historically to hold the key to developing talent as they have no choice but to do so. All professional clubs should foster these relationships and invest time and money here rather than the SL and championship clubs playing at it.

Ackers, I am delighted to agree with you 100%

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It's not that hard to believe that shared resources can absolutely help Championship clubs too.

I agree, but what resources will the CC club share with the SL club?

Will the CC have to pay the wages of the players the dual reg? Will they have access to any marketing support from the SL club?

For me there are still far too many things that are uncertain to see if this a positive move for smaller CC clubs or not.

If this IS the RFL's plan to get feeder clubs, I wish they would just get on with it, be open about it and then the leagues could adjust accordingly. Reduce the salary cap further, reduce admission prices etc.

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My bad, I meant hard to sell to supporters.

Equally the supporters can suit themselves as far as RFL/SLE are concerned. If they like the arrangement and go with it then their club will facilitate the SL clubs player development system and save the SL club £100K.

If they don't then they can all stay away and their club will die off.

Hunslet supporters largely bought it.

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Aren't the rules just the same as the dual-registered players like last year?

Who knows? Nothing has been announced.

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Maybe they do. The games going in a direction I don't like, I think the professional clubs have messed about with academies long enough.

If they can't do it for themselves they are only sharing bad practice surely? From memory I can't recall a Dewsbury academy product that made SL, maybe someone could remind me? As for Bradford , they can spot class and have the money to buy it but do they have an academy with a history to be proud of?

For me the wee shoots that grow in the amateur game are not given long enough to suckle from the vine before they are plucked. Neither Bradford or Dewsbury can change the lack of progression in uncovering world class talent via the academy structure so lets find a way of letting the grass roots system finish the job.

Peacock, Fielden, Burgess, Langley, Atkins, Bridge, Pryce? To name a few.

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It would appear that only Halifax, Sheffield and Featherstone are not looking to become a feeder club or have stated they aren't.. Be interesting to have the RFL announce what the rules are for this and what their "plan" is for the Championship. Surely they have one?

As far as I have seen this go the "rules" announced are rather vague which suits RFL/SLE. The rules will not be set in stone until the year 3000 and so I'd guess once all the tie ups are in place you will have a majority of clubs who can just change the rules again and effectively run as they wish.

The Championship could end up a feeder league or an "A" team league etc etc. When you intimate the RFL should surely have a plan for the Championship I have suggested two plans in this very sentence.

The plan could also be a 14 club league of traditional independent RL clubs where candidates for Superleague can fight it out for the 3 yearly "guaranteed place". But I won't put my money on this.

For me the wreckage of admin at Bradford and Wakefield, the disaster happening at HKR, Salford and Cas, the £8,000,000 seasonal loss in Superleague, the failure of expansion and 80 decent overseas players starting to leave for home has finally hit home to the RFL/SLE radical changes are neccessary. This is step one.

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Aren't the rules just the same as the dual-registered players like last year?

Sharing marketing and training facilities is up to individual clubs surely?

Part of my problem is that nobody seems willing to state definitively what the rules are & how they differ from last season.

If rumours/leaks are true they differ greatly. Currently its a total of 4 loanees/dual regs with a maximum of 3 from any one club with an upper age limit(not sure but i think its 23) . Next year its believed to be upto 10 players registered at any one time with max if six in the team & no upper age limit. The age limit may seem trivial but it is key, its no longer just a way of giving younger players who are not ready for sl a higher standard to develop in but now a way of keeping senior players match fit or a place for playets returning from long term injury. A competition that wishes to be 'vibrant and worth winning in its own right' is nit the place for this to happen, imho of course.

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Who knows? Nothing has been announced.

But there may be nothing to announce. The rules are already in place, surely only a change would need an announcement?

This seems to me just a more formalised approach to the dual-registration, where it seems that clubs are jumping in bed with one club formally.

People will no doubt complain when a SL club signs a leading player from the CC club, but then I suspect there will be plenty more going the other way.

Warrington for example during the past few years have had very few Academy players storming it in SL, yet there have been a lot of former players in the Championships.

I would disagree with VW, I suspect that the Championship clubs benefit from SL developed players far more than the other way round.

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Peacock, Fielden, Burgess, Langley, Atkins, Bridge, Pryce? To name a few.

That's the point. It IS a few. Peacock and Atkins were Leeds lads AFAIK. Langley fro Dewsbury.

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That's the point. It IS a few. Peacock and Atkins were Leeds lads AFAIK. Langley fro Dewsbury.

All came through the Bulls Academy system though. And that is just the cream of the crop. There have been plenty more Super League standard players come out of the club

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I would disagree with VW, I suspect that the Championship clubs benefit from SL developed players far more than the other way round.

I don't recognise what he says. Cliff Spracklen years ago outlined how the Championship is a league that takes the best of the young lads who don't quite make it at the Superleague clubs and gives them a semi pro-career.

Effectively these arrangements may involve those who don't make it for Bradford under dual registration being transferred to single registration at Dewsbury.

Conceivably at both Hunslet and Dewsbury in time their playing staffs could be mainly current and ex-leeds and Bradford players.

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