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GeordieSaint

Eagles for SL

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Massive sense of Deja-Vu about this thread. Hasn't it been the same arguments for 12 pages?

All the Sheffield fans that have commented on this thread have said the same thing: we're not ready. Until the point that we are, speculating is irrelevant.

That said, there are some positive signs. There's been much talk about Sheffield not producing Super League standard players. This is true, but there are good signs. Look at the results of the Scholarship side this year; they've beaten the scholarship sides of a number of SL clubs are pushed a load of others close. The senior academy isn't doing quite as well, but they're mostly competitive. There have also been a number of Sheffield kids in and around the first team squad. Most of these haven't broken through to be regulars, but have played some Championship and NR club gains. It could take years for the Eagles to put out a first team with a high proportion of scholarship and academy graduates, but there are more coming through now than when the Eagles were in Super League. In those days, many of the academy/second team players didn't come from the South Yorkshire area; now, most are either identified via schools work, taken from local clubs (eg Hillsborough, Hoyland etc) or come from the productive midlands program (not run by the Eagles, but certainly monitored closely).

I can understand the frustration of those involved at the club with regards to their achievements not being recognised. However, this is a problem for other ambitious/forward-thinking Championship clubs as well (Fev being the most obvious example).

The Eagles have done terrifically well to get this far, given the fall-out from the merger in '99. It's a great story, and one that will be told in full one of these days. Watch this space…

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I can understand the frustration of those involved at the club with regards to their achievements not being recognised. However, this is a problem for other ambitious/forward-thinking Championship clubs as well (Fev being the most obvious example).

The Eagles have done terrifically well to get this far, given the fall-out from the merger in '99. It's a great story, and one that will be told in full one of these days. Watch this space…

It's an incredible story right from the start. Thanks for your views.

I've no doubt Sheffield will turn out Superleague players if they continue to run their junior system.

The Featherstone analogy is important and so true, Featherstone/Pontefract have turned out ten Superleague players currently in the starting XV11's of SL clubs.

And deja vu is also the argument that what's the point in having a junior system if richer clubs simply take the best from you.

Sheffield need the money is the bottom line, and they are a couple of million adrift.

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Turning to a slightly different point, I'm sure the ideal we'd all like to see is a second tier of financially and structurally strong clubs, able and willing to take the place of the incumbent $uperleague clubs.

Given that and given that Parky's been banging on about player supply for much of this thread, it seems strange to me that the RFL should actively discourage Championship sides from running Reserve Grade and junior sides.

Surely the RFL needs to encourage Championship clubs to progress.

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Turning to a slightly different point, I'm sure the ideal we'd all like to see is a second tier of financially and structurally strong clubs, able and willing to take the place of the incumbent $uperleague clubs.

Given that and given that Parky's been banging on about player supply for much of this thread, it seems strange to me that the RFL should actively discourage Championship sides from running Reserve Grade and junior sides.

Surely the RFL needs to encourage Championship clubs to progress.

Go back to 1995-6 and you will find out what the RFL really wants to encourage ;)

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Go back to 1995-6 and you will find out what the RFL really wants to encourage ;)

Well, that won't work.

Every pyramid needs a base wider than its apex.

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Yes i see where you are coming from on this and i dont necessarily disagree.. but to argue the other side.. the biggest problem with this is that no one knows until the last moment whether they are up or down.. there is a relagation fight but even if you lose it you may still stay up, that is not a satisfactory situation for any club to plan for the next season either.. do they make redundancies to staff and players, who do they recruit and what league are they in, players will leave while they are waiting for who wins the grand final.

To be honest i dont see an ideal world scenario whilst there is such a big gap between divisions that you cannot have straight P&R.... I have my own thoughts but thats not really or tis thread but either way someone will always be upset..

Sheffield have ticked a box so if they want to apply let them.. they may not make it but let them apply otherwise this goes further and further into farce.

And I can see where you are coming from. The uncertainty about which division you might be in could create recruitment problems and planning problems with not knowing exactly what TV money you might or might not be getting.

I have, on many occasions, advocated SL expansion by going to conferences but the problem with that has always been the extra money necessary to fund more SL teams.

The current drive to create feeder teams from the championships is going to marginalise many of those teams leaving a small number of stand alone clubs some of whom might, like the Eagles, be, at some point, ready for SL. There needs to be some avenue for them to progress because the feeder teams will make the CC just like an A team league. I think fan interest and loyalty will just die off even more than it has already done at that level.

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people go on about spending hte full cap, then we expect clubs not to spend any extra money... there would be higher revenues but not necessarily bigger crowds straight away (super league does not ipso facto equal crowds).. they may spend it wisely but its still money spent.. They may win as many as widnes but they would no doubt still go down and become a yo yo club and that is where the money issues arise, its not necessarily the issue if you stay in as you continue to have the money bit if you go down with players on wages or having to rip the entire club apart that is when it all goes wrong and clubs go under.

Would you be in favour of the best team on the pitch being promoted every 3 years (if they meet other standards)? This is what I'm mainly advocating as an initial return to P&R

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Am I ?

The point is that any club could get off their backsides and earn this money.

The point is/was that for a club/region that apparently isn't supported by the RFL, they don't appear to have done badly out of it.

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The point is/was that for a club/region that apparently isn't supported by the RFL, they don't appear to have done badly out of it.

Appearances can be deceptive.

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Would you be in favour of the best team on the pitch being promoted every 3 years (if they meet other standards)? This is what I'm mainly advocating as an initial return to P&R

There's a very big "if" in there.

Actually, that's worse than the current option, which is any one of three, four - maybe more - teams could be promoted - if they meet other standards. The RFL have said that a minimum of one team will go up - if they meet other standards.

It's the meeting other standards that's the sticking point - not playing performances.

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Go back to 1995-6 and you will find out what the RFL really wants to encourage ;)

Remind me what Mo Lindsay's current role is within the RFL.

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There's a very big "if" in there.

Actually, that's worse than the current option, which is any one of three, four - maybe more - teams could be promoted - if they meet other standards. The RFL have said that a minimum of one team will go up - if they meet other standards.

It's the meeting other standards that's the sticking point - not playing performances.

How on Earth can it be worse? The current system renders the matches to be meaningless once you tick the "on pitch box". It also means smaller town clubs that are close to many other SL teams are at a major disadvantage when the panel chooses. This further puts fans off. To have a panel decide promotion is ludicrous and makes the whole idea of winning a joke. Its like some loony left competition from the 1980s where winning was banned. Fans want to know where they stand by clear results

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How on Earth can it be worse?

It's worse because it means only one club can go up. If they don't meet the standards, nobody goes up.

The current system is than one of (probably) four clubs will go up - subject, of course, to meeting standards. If your best club doesn't meet the standards, the others still have a punt.

How on Earth can one club having a chance be better than four ? :lol:

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It's worse because it means only one club can go up. If they don't meet the standards, nobody goes up.

The current system is than one of (probably) four clubs will go up - subject, of course, to meeting standards. If your best club doesn't meet the standards, the others still have a punt.

How on Earth can one club having a chance be better than four ? :lol:

Your post is true.However, do you think they will still guarantee a Championship Club a SL place for the following licencing period.? If they do, it will almost certainly be given to the SL club ejected for the Championship team this time around in my opinion.

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It's worse because it means only one club can go up. If they don't meet the standards, nobody goes up.

The current system is than one of (probably) four clubs will go up - subject, of course, to meeting standards. If your best club doesn't meet the standards, the others still have a punt.

How on Earth can one club having a chance be better than four ? :lol:

No it doesnt mean that at all - the next best team meeting criteria should and would go up.

Crowds will never be good if a panel decides the club to go up as it castrates the match as a meaningful spectacle.

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Remind me what Mo Lindsay's current role is within the RFL.

What's that got to do with it?

Lyndsay recognised there were too few fans and players, and too many clubs.

He proposed that there be less clubs so they can have more resources.

The clubs decided to stay as they were with the larger ones adopting a policy of taking resources off the smaller ones.

SL clubs sell season tickets and take the best juniors from nearby championship club areas.

So it answer Griff's surprise that the Championship isn't being done any favours.

Now have you got anything of you own to post?

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What's that got to do with it?

Lyndsay recognised there were too few fans and players, and too many clubs.

He proposed that there be less clubs so they can have more resources.

The clubs decided to stay as they were with the larger ones adopting a policy of taking resources off the smaller ones.

And he no longer works for the RFL.

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And he no longer works for the RFL.

So what?

What he proposed has been steadily acted on this last 17 years.

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So what?

What he proposed has been steadily acted on this last 17 years.

Has it heck as like.

If it had then Hull KR would hardly have been promoted. "Merger by stealth" was working and now it isn't.

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Has it heck as like.

If it had then Hull KR would hardly have been promoted. "Merger by stealth" was working and now it isn't.

You therefore totally failed to see HKR's steady demise to the point of 1,000 fans attending a Chorley game and all the best kids in Hull packed into Hull FC and FC's Challenge Cup victory and Superleague appearance at Old Trafford.

So merger by stealth was classically happening there, so it WAS heckers like.

Still history shows us nothing doesn't it.

Along come Hudgell with a few million and stalls the process. Then his money runs out and the best players run out after it.

Open your eyes, stop sniping at me, and post your own opinions.

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Your post is true.However, do you think they will still guarantee a Championship Club a SL place for the following licencing period.? If they do, it will almost certainly be given to the SL club ejected for the Championship team this time around in my opinion.

The RFL have stated that a minimum of one Championship Club will be promoted - subject to meeting the licensing standards,

The rider is always going to be there - get used to it.

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You therefore totally failed to see HKR's steady demise to the point of 1,000 fans attending a Chorley game and all the best kids in Hull packed into Hull FC and FC's Challenge Cup victory and Superleague appearance at Old Trafford.

So merger by stealth was classically happening there, so it WAS heckers like.

Still history shows us nothing doesn't it.

Along come Hudgell with a few million and stalls the process. Then his money runs out and the best players run out after it.

Open your eyes, stop sniping at me, and post your own opinions.

My own opinion is that you are talking nonsense.

Hull KR were in danger of becoming an FC feeder team and the RFL had the perfect excuse to block their entry to SL i.e. the state of their stadium, they could have even relegated them the last time licences were decided.

They chose not to.

Mo Lindsay doesn't run the RFL anymore and the world has moved on. Perhaps you should too.

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My own opinion is that you are talking nonsense.

Hull KR were in danger of becoming an FC feeder team and the RFL had the perfect excuse to block their entry to SL i.e. the state of their stadium, they could have even relegated them the last time licences were decided.

They chose not to.

Mo Lindsay doesn't run the RFL anymore and the world has moved on. Perhaps you should too.

Your opinion is ALWAYS that I am talking nonsense. You need to stick to the actual debates.

You have entirely ignored the facts and twisted them just to try to score your customary point.

Hull.K.R. were sinking as fast as Hunslet in the face of Leeds or Halifax in the face of Fartown and Bradford.

The process of the big clubs taking players and fans from the small clubs is something entirely perpetrated by the bigger clubs.

You have ("whoosh") completely missed the point that Mo Lyndsay covered the need for less clubs to have a bigger share of the

quality players and paying fans (a sound analysis, that is so important to the game even 17 years on, even though Mo is somewhere other than the RFL). He then went on to suggest merger so that this process could happen in an atmosphere of unity and inclusiveness. Nice one Mo.

Then the CLUBS (note that) said "No we are not going to merge" and set about fighting each other for the "Elite" places in the SKY sponsored Superleague.

It was, is, and still remains the CLUBS who are slugging this out. Mo and the RFL supported merger and inclusivity.

Each man for himself as Padge so eloquently puts it.

Hudgell was HKR's man and what he used to fight off his clubs demise was money. £Millions of it literally. This is the stuff that everyone needs to run clubs, to run successful SL teams even? HKR had the money, won the league, gained promotion and they brought that money into Superleague and provided a competetive club.

The RFL did not have a policy of engineering heavily cashed up clubs out of superleague (are you mad?) to attain their desired hope of less clubs each with more of the resources. Clubs who could spend full salary cap year on year were what the RFL could not find in enough numbers. They can't even find them now can they?

I'm sure Mo being a smart man knew that his vision for a low number of clubs having the lions share of resources could either come about through merger OR the clubs slugging it out. Either way it was not his problem to sort nor was it his successors problem to sort.

Now Hudgell's money has run out it seems Pearson is in for the kill.

So sorry Solly - No point here for you......

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Mergers don't work because they are not what the punters want.

So they reduce revenue to the game as a whole.

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Mergers don't work because they are not what the punters want.

So they reduce revenue to the game as a whole.

Griff - when did you take a vote from the "Punters" and at which clubs?

Revenue as "income" is always offset by costs.

Let's say you have two clubs in one city. One get's 11,000 fans and the other gets 7.000 fans.

The first breaks even or makes a small loss, the second loses £500K a year.

They merge and 5,000 fans abandon the game but new fans take interest.

You may then get one club in the city who could make a profit and go on to make bigger profits.

Let's take three clubs along an infamous river. Collectively they have large revenues, from 17,000 fans but they all play in dumps and lose their best players to bigger clubs.

The revenue is high but one goes bust the second claims they are in dire straights and the third runs at a loss even in the Championship.

Three lots of costs more than eat away any revenue.

ANYWAY as I say you forgot costs against revenue (I know you knew this) and you can't speak for others.

BTW the clubs i used as an example above are entirely fictional :D

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