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GeordieSaint

Eagles for SL

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Don't Wigan have two or three Welsh ex juniors in their first etam squad? If so, sacrilege.

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Where do you think players come from if not the amateur game?

Jack Howieson (Hemel Stags) is a good example in the current side. Does he count? Or have Sheffield got to go trawling the streets of Darnall asking if anyone fancies being a Super League player?

No they have to set up a player production system that brings predominantly local kids through their system and turns them into professional players. I'd guess Workington could produce a few if they had the money to be in Superleague.

However they ain't got the fans, so they don't have the money, and so there'll be no player production system underpinning a successful SL side in Workington either.

So if someone deadly rich comes along I hope they put their money into West Cumbria as it'll be a better bet for developing local kids than Sheffield, as it's a big area for junior ARL.

And that's the point.

It's not a criticism it's a reality.

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Oddly enough, Wigan signed a player from Telford and Wakefield signed one from Nottingham for their scholarships. Quins also look at the Midlands. The Eagles are by no means the only pro side scouting the region.

This is why I believe Sheffield have a problem setting up an academy.

If they do it in the championship every quality young pro will move on like Zac Hardaker.

If they do it in SL clubs who also have motorways heading into the Midlands will be wanting the same players Sheffield want.

And with no money Sheffield won't get them.

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This is why I believe Sheffield have a problem setting up an academy.

If they do it in the championship every quality young pro will move on like Zac Hardaker.

If they do it in SL clubs who also have motorways heading into the Midlands will be wanting the same players Sheffield want.

And with no money Sheffield won't get them.

Agreed - the collapse of the transfer system means the big clubs get bigger and the small clubs get nowhere.

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No they have to set up a player production system that brings predominantly local kids through their system and turns them into professional players. I'd guess Workington could produce a few if they had the money to be in Superleague.

However they ain't got the fans, so they don't have the money, and so there'll be no player production system underpinning a successful SL side in Workington either.

So if someone deadly rich comes along I hope they put their money into West Cumbria as it'll be a better bet for developing local kids than Sheffield, as it's a big area for junior ARL.

And that's the point.

It's not a criticism it's a reality.

It's a bit early to say whether the current scheme is working or not. It's basically only been running for a couple of years (including a short time where they used Hillsborough in the NYL as an academy equivalent) and they've signed several players already. The U19s are going well and next year's U16 and U15 scholarships have a high proportion of local players. I would still agree that the local amateur player base is way too small.

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I can see Parky's point about player supply but it's being overplayed. Sheffield have always looked further afield for players. In the mid eighties they signed Johnny Glancy and Mark Aston from Selby when no-one was looking out there.

A couple of months ago they signed two players from Northampton and one from Telford. Exactly who else is looking out there ?

London and Wigan / Warrington respectively.

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"I'd be surprised if anyone is spending less than us. I'm not a millionaire sugar daddy chucking money in the pot"

Andrew Glover, League Express 15th October 2012 exploding the myth that he's loaded.

I think he's trying to say that a well run club can indeed hack it in SL without a sugar daddy.

They can but the key is the number of people paying to go through the turnstiles,

Sheffields best season was around 4.5k in a season with an average of around 7.5k if memory serves. Of course the figure needed is offset by sponsorship and corporate entertainment, however it would be amazing if Sheffield could pull in sponsorship deals and corporate sales that are so much better than the likes of Leeds, Wigan, Saints etc that they can survive on crowds of half- the average, Bradford couldn't hack it with around 75-80% of average.

I am not saying Sheffield or any other club can't manage it, but people really have be realistic about how much of a real challenge it is and how much time it could take.

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The Sheffield club feel that they can progress to the point of applying for a SL licence in the future, I am sure they have their own accountants and financial plans to deal with the level of finance needed for SL. I cannot tell you how they will achieve this and you cannot tell me that they will not because you nor I have the inside information necessary to prove our opposing views.

Wrong

John Whaling on behalf of the board of directors at Sheffield said the club "can't do everything because we are struggling with finance due to a downturn in the corporate market" . He appealed to the RFL for investment to "publicise the game in Sheffield and help grow Eagles crowds".

My view is they are badly lacking money and it's backed up by their own spokesperson on behalf of the board of directors.

I just don't dream these things up, I read and listen intently to what is said and what actually happens.

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Time will tell which one of us is correct.

It took 4 hours and 40 minutes. Sheffield are skint by their own admission.

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You are too negative and write them off based on conditions existing right now and do not give them any credence to achieve the required standards going forward.

Mr. Whaling has the begging bowl out in terms of how he wants the club to go forward ;)

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Agreed - the collapse of the transfer system means the big clubs get bigger and the small clubs get nowhere.

The transfer system didn't collapse, it was declared illegal, probably when someone in the Sports Ministry twigged the slave trade had been abolished.

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The transfer system didn't collapse, it was declared illegal, probably when someone in the Sports Ministry twigged the slave trade had been abolished.

Wasnt it the Bosman ruling?

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It took 4 hours and 40 minutes. Sheffield are skint by their own admission.

Is this a permanent situation?

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Is this a permanent situation?

I don't know, but I'm not surprised that there's little money in the coffers at the mo, even running a top Championship club is a costly business and 1600 fans or whatever don't provide that great an income..

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Wrong

John Whaling on behalf of the board of directors at Sheffield said the club "can't do everything because we are struggling with finance due to a downturn in the corporate market" . He appealed to the RFL for investment to "publicise the game in Sheffield and help grow Eagles crowds".

My view is they are badly lacking money and it's backed up by their own spokesperson on behalf of the board of directors.

I just don't dream these things up, I read and listen intently to what is said and what actually happens.

The salient part of my post, which you ignored was " in the future". If you feel that this recession is never ending then OK you are correct.

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Wasnt it the Bosman ruling?

It was.

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Wrong

John Whaling on behalf of the board of directors at Sheffield said the club "can't do everything because we are struggling with finance due to a downturn in the corporate market" . He appealed to the RFL for investment to "publicise the game in Sheffield and help grow Eagles crowds".

My view is they are badly lacking money and it's backed up by their own spokesperson on behalf of the board of directors.

I just don't dream these things up, I read and listen intently to what is said and what actually happens.

He has stated IMO what just about every sports club in the country will be suffering, I read more into it that The Eagles would like to be treated more in line with the expansion areas and receive funding to help develop the club to the next level without going into the red.

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1. He has stated IMO what just about every sports club in the country will be suffering.

2. I read more into it that The Eagles would like to be treated more in line with the expansion areas and receive funding to help develop the club to the next level without going into the red.

1. I know but even when they weren't suffering the recession they may have had more corporate money but only had 1,000 fans.

2. Yes I thought that was an angle especially when he referred to London and Crusaders.

Today there's several Welsh Superleague players and a growing number of Superleague players from London and the south east. These areas were and are receptive to Rugby League probably more so than Sheffield is, so that's probably why these areas were preferred to Sheffield.

But even those two clubs had to have money men before they were allowed in Superleague so the RFL IMHO are not going to bankroll Sheffield to see if they can create pro players from the area. As I said above if the RFL were to pay for a championship club to be in SL to expand the playing pool they'd probably get better results from Cumbria??.

Featherstone and Pontefract produce players in good numbers and they say Mr. Nahaboo will fund them, so that's another reason to sadly say it's a "no" to Sheffield.....

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The salient part of my post, which you ignored was " in the future". If you feel that this recession is never ending then OK you are correct.

The recession could end tomorrow, it would make little difference to Sheffield or many other clubs.

Clubs were skint before the recession, they are just a bit more skint now and come the end of the recession they will go back to just being skint.

That may seem a bit flippant, but it is the reality. Nearly all clubs live on the borderline, even in the best of times, a recession doesn't cut a clubs income by 50% overnight and it doesn't jump by 50% when a recession is declared as over.

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The salient part of my post, which you ignored was " in the future". If you feel that this recession is never ending then OK you are correct.

Sheffield didn't have much money throughout the Labour "boom years" either when they averaged 4,000 fans in Superleague, and eventually went bust.

To effectively argue once the country comes out of recession this will enable Sheffield to afford to compete in Superleague is a bit desperate.

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The recession could end tomorrow, it would make little difference to Sheffield or many other clubs.

Clubs were skint before the recession, they are just a bit more skint now and come the end of the recession they will go back to just being skint.

That may seem a bit flippant, but it is the reality.

Apologies, I just missed your post before I repeated it.

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Sheffield didn't have much money throughout the Labour "boom years" either when they averaged 4,000 fans in Superleague, and eventually went bust.

To effectively argue once the country comes out of recession this will enable Sheffield to afford to compete in Superleague is a bit desperate.

Also its not only Sheffield's fortunes that improve it's the fortunes of all of their competitors.

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1. I know but even when they weren't suffering the recession they may have had more corporate money but only had 1,000 fans.

2. Yes I thought that was an angle especially when he referred to London and Crusaders.

Today there's several Welsh Superleague players and a growing number of Superleague players from London and the south east. These areas were and are receptive to Rugby League probably more so than Sheffield is, so that's probably why these areas were preferred to Sheffield.

But even those two clubs had to have money men before they were allowed in Superleague so the RFL IMHO are not going to bankroll Sheffield to see if they can create pro players from the area. As I said above if the RFL were to pay for a championship club to be in SL to expand the playing pool they'd probably get better results from Cumbria??.

Featherstone and Pontefract produce players in good numbers and they say Mr. Nahaboo will fund them, so that's another reason to sadly say it's a "no" to Sheffield.....

To build a club of strength you would need to have several areas in place, to me it looks like Sheffield have chosen their route and the order they saw fit, from recent results you have to say their route is working towards Super League.

Sheffield Eagles still have at lease one development officer funded by themselves where in contrast the RFL have pulled their funded ones from many areas.

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To build a club of strength you would need to have several areas in place, to me it looks like Sheffield have chosen their route and the order they saw fit, from recent results you have to say their route is working towards Super League.

Sheffield Eagles still have at lease one development officer funded by themselves where in contrast the RFL have pulled their funded ones from many areas.

Different clubs will take different approaches, that's a given. For me there is only one approach, you build a strong club (business) and from that you build a team. The recent traditional approach is to build a team and hope some business follows to pay for it.

A lot of early rugby clubs were formed from successful businesses forming sporting clubs, not from sporting clubs trying to become successful businesses.

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Kokup

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