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GeordieSaint

Eagles for SL

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So what is Eagles current turnover and what turnover do you think they need to compete in SL?

Current - dunno, their 2012 accounts aren't due for eight months yet.

Year to 2011, haven't got them handy but it was around £800,000.

What do I think they'd need ? About £4m to make a realistic challenge for a play-off spot.

So exclude, say, £1.2m from Sky, they'd need to increase their 2011 turnover by around 250%.

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I would say that if a competetive SL team was in sheffield for 20 years then you'd see a number of Sheffield born SL players and crowds better than 6,000.

I would say that if a competitive team was in Wales, Touluse, Featherstone, West Cumbria etc for 20 years it would do better than this.

Nobody can deny being in SL would make Sheffield a bigger club, but the level of growth in a heavy soccer environment may be less than SL can achieve elsewhere

SL places are heavily restricted so the RFL have to be careful who they give them to.

Sheffield have to offer better growth in SL than the other incumbents.

you speculate on no basis as much as anyone else..

but its ok becuase its you!

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I never have given any time frame for Sheffield to be in SL. I have repeatedly said, in fact, that they are not ready for SL. The club has stated their ambition to aim for a SL place. I don't think they have set a time frame either. I have merely said that Sheffield could be a good bet for SL given the size of Sheffield, their proximity to the heartlands and their recent successes and progress since their re entry to the RFL.

You and Parksider are so SL centric in your views that there seems to be no space in your vision to accept that clubs outside of SL can ever advance from where they are at present to the point whereby they could be ready for a SL place. I am not in a position to answer detailed questions as to exactly how individual clubs can achieve these goals but I think that some will get there. The RFL will judge if they are ready or not, if they tick the boxes or not, if and when such clubs submit their applications.

The bit in bold is utter tripe.

I have often stated quite clearly that ANY club can make a go of SL, I have never stated that any club could NEVER get in and stay in.

I have often also repeated ad nauseam that its all about money. Any club that can generate enough money can get there, if you can't get the funds though forget it, you'll just near kill the club.

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but if your going to go on like that then i shall leave this thread now becuase that ignores all the points i have made where i have pointed out where there could be increases.. you have the easiest argument of saying "no that will never happen" becuase i cannot prove that it will happen.. thats the daftest way to look at it..

Beg to differ then.

But if you are saying there could be "increases" then explain where, how and the likely scale.

All you seem to offer is SKY will give them £1.£M. I noted for you that won't give them an SL turnover.

You said crowds will increase- even trebling the crowds will see them lose money

You talked about commercial money - Whaling says that is down.

You talked about them competing with what players from where??

O'Connor is stinky rich and he came bottonm of SL with all that money and his crowds were well short of budget.

I just want to discuss reality.

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Current - dunno, their 2012 accounts aren't due for eight months yet.

Year to 2011, haven't got them handy but it was around £800,000.

What do I think they'd need ? About £4m to make a realistic challenge for a play-off spot.

So exclude, say, £1.2m from Sky, they'd need to increase their 2011 turnover by around 250%.

Thank you very much indeed for those views they seem to give us all an excellent reality check.

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you speculate on no basis as much as anyone else..

I have explained the process whereby Sheffield cannot expect to get any SL quality players from their academy in the 3 year licence if they got it.

I have explained that like Widnes they will be the last club SL players on the market will want to go to if they get in SL. And Widnes had money.

Griff on my prompting has explained how far short of being able to fund SL sheffield are

Mr. Whaling has explained they have no money for marketing and little commercial revenue.

So I'm just "guessing" that Sheffield have no chance of competing in SL in the next few years then.

Maybe I am but it's a heavily educated guess others also back up.

You have just provided wishful thinking.

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I have explained the process whereby Sheffield cannot expect to get any SL quality players from their academy in the 3 year licence if they got it.

I have explained that like Widnes they will be the last club SL players on the market will want to go to if they get in SL. And Widnes had money.

Griff on my prompting has explained how far short of being able to fund SL sheffield are

Mr. Whaling has explained they have no money for marketing and little commercial revenue.

So I'm just "guessing" that Sheffield have no chance of competing in SL in the next few years then.

Maybe I am but it's a heavily educated guess others also back up.

You have just provided wishful thinking.

Afraid he's right, mate.

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Wasnt it the Bosman ruling?

When Kelvin Skerrett signed for Hunslet as youngster his uncle GB international Trevor had a contract drawn up stating he would sign for two years after which he would be a free agent and they told Hunslet if they want him sign it or he would go elsewhere. They signed it. After that contract he moved to Bradford using the same contract. Hunslet complained to the RFL that they were entitled to a transfer fee the RFL lawyers found the contact leagally binding. in his favour. He also moved from Bradford to Wigan using the same contract.

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You talked about commercial money - Whaling says that is down.

It may well be down, but traditionally Sheffield have pulled in more commercial revenue than others teams of their size/in semi-pro RL. This is because Sheffield is a big city and their hospitality/sponsorship packages are excellent value compared to other local pro teams (especially Wednesday, United and Steelers). Should Sheffield ever return to Super League, you can guarantee that they would vastly increase commercial revenue, given that they could charge more and being in a more high profile division would help.

I think the point John Waling was trying to make was a more general one about the dispensations and assistance that other "development" areas have had, which Sheffield haven't enjoyed quite so much. This is a long-standing sore point for the Eagles and goes back years.

On the plus side, I hear that the club has pledged to continue funding development staff/programmes at the current level over the next few years, even if they lose some RFL funding (likely, as cutbacks are effecting all areas of the country). There are very few Championship clubs who would do that.

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Afraid he's right, mate.

Problem is Griff time and again I say we are not ready now but that is ignored, I am talking in the near future but not next time round... Maybe I should sign off everytime with tat...

Parky speculates it can never happen and its gospel., but because I cannot name companies or people that will invest because I am not in a position to know who may be interested in 4 years the whole argument is thrown out.

I know, and have said, we will not have a team full of SL standard youngsters in 3 years but the strides made in the last 10 years that i have seen suggest we will be starting to get a FEW in the not too distant, and that can hopefully then grow.

If we got up to super league I would expect us to struggle like Widnes in year 1, I would for whoever goes up to be honest.. I don't see it as an issue I see it as a good reason to have licencing as corporate sponsors know they have exposure for 3 years etc.

Any way parky again will say it is just wishful thinking that in 5 years or so we may be in a position or claim again that I expect them in next week. The fact I was born and brought up here, have seen the changed in kids involvement and speak to businesses here a huge amount is obviously irrelevant. But I can see these obstacles as surmountable due to this, parky cannot from wherever his educated guesses are coming from.

There are issues and we are a way off but ALL these issues with work can be ticked off, and from my understanding this is what they are doing, taking a problem and fixing it to build to a bid that can win. Sadly there will always be neighsayers.

Anyway In the immortal words of peter Jones, I'm out.

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I have explained the process whereby Sheffield cannot expect to get any SL quality players from their academy in the 3 year licence if they got it.

I have explained that like Widnes they will be the last club SL players on the market will want to go to if they get in SL. And Widnes had money.

It's a bit early to write Widnes off as no hopers who will never bring anything to SL. They've had one year out of a 3 year licence.

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You're right - but Sheffield need to get their crowds up to 3000+ in the Division they're in before talking about what they'll do in $uperleague.

Like London for instance.

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Parky speculates it can never happen and its gospel.

RP my good man, I never ever said it can never happen. You are not listening to me. It is Keighley that constantly says I say it will never happen. I say it can easily happen if they get a rich backer.

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It's a bit early to write Widnes off as no hopers who will never bring anything to SL.

Where on earth did you get that from.

Now you are inventing quotes and attributing them to me.

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It's a bit early to write Widnes off as no hopers who will never bring anything to SL. They've had one year out of a 3 year licence.

I don't think he wrote Widnes off, he just pointed out that the promoted club is perhaps not going to be at the top of a players list of clubs to join.

I think the error in Parkey's post is adding the rider that Widnes had money, did they, O'Conner strikes me as a man who throws money about like a bloke without arms. I suspect Widnes had a budget, set by O'Conner for year 1 which was nowhere near the full cap, depending on crowds and other income streams that budget will be reset for years 2 and 3.

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Like London for instance.

But London have the wealthy backer, but you knew that anyway, so what was the point in that post.

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Should Sheffield ever return to Super League, you can guarantee that they would vastly increase commercial revenue, given that they could charge more and being in a more high profile division would help.

Well I hope the next time they get in the top division unlike when they were in the First division or when they were last in SL, the fans respond in great numbers and the commercial revenue vastly increases.

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I would say that if a competetive SL team was in sheffield for 20 years then you'd see a number of Sheffield born SL players and crowds better than 6,000.

I would say that if a competitive team was in Wales, Touluse, Featherstone, West Cumbria etc for 20 years it would do better than this.

Nobody can deny being in SL would make Sheffield a bigger club, but the level of growth in a heavy soccer environment may be less than SL can achieve elsewhere

SL places are heavily restricted so the RFL have to be careful who they give them to.

Sheffield have to offer better growth in SL than the other incumbents.

What a load of......! Wigan, Huddersfield, Leeds, Wigan, Hull, Bradford, London ad infinitum and Salford all have significant if not overwhelming soccer competiton in some cases. Do you suggest we get rid of those teams from RL because of the soccer presence.?

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I think the error in Parkey's post is adding the rider that Widnes had money, did they.

Thanks for correcting Northern Sol.

I'm going on the reports from Widnes fans and others in the know over there who state that several of the Widnes targets were offered rather good deals but chose not to go to Widnes. In terms of having money I'm going on reports that O'Connor is wealthy and on the day he slapped £500K on the table to show RFL/SLE his intent.

I do appreciate also that he stated an intent that the club would generate it's own income and spend to that and he would not bankroll them to too great an extent i.e. year on year on year.

How far O'Connor will be a sugar daddy remains to be seen, but the essence of my point was Widnes have struggled and they have someone with money. Sheffield do not. The other point I made and RP ignores is if Sheffield unearthed a Zac Hardaker I do not believe such a player would stay with Sheffield. If anyone wants to see clubs who can't hang on to their best players then all they have to do is look at Cas, HKR & Salford, the common denominator is lack of money.

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O'Conner seems to be one of the new breed of wealthy backers, he'll invest money but he won't pick up the wage bill.

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What a load of......Wigan, Huddersfield, Leeds, Wigan, Hull, Bradford, infinitum and Salford all have significant if not overwhelming soccer competiton in some cases. Do you suggest we get rid of those teams from RL because of the soccer presence.?

Most of these clubs pre-date soccer in their area so they managed to grow some very strong roots, that keep them alive today.

In tremendous contrast Sheffield was a massive soccer city from the 1850's on and the two clubs are massive clubs today and Soccer dominates.

It's therefore understandably hard for Sheffield to grow big roots.

Can you just sit back a minute and appreciate the difference.

You may find in the coming years Salford end up losing their SL place in a dual city where Broughton are no more, Swinton are a pale shadow of their former self and Salford can only draw 5,000 fans from one of the biggest conurbations in the country.

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O'Conner seems to be one of the new breed of wealthy backers, he'll invest money but he won't pick up the wage bill.

Interesting thought, they won't pick up the bill at HKR, Cas, Widnes?, Salford................

It could end in a 12 club Superleague but I was interested in Glovers suggestion of reducing the salary cap.

One way or another something may give.

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Interesting thought, they won't pick up the bill at HKR, Cas, Widnes?, Salford................

It could end in a 12 club Superleague but I was interested in Glovers suggestion of reducing the salary cap.

One way or another something may give.

Hudgell is obviously starting to cut his cloth, O'Conner has set his stall out, Wilkinson has always seemed to keep a tight rein, Cas have nobody to pick up the tab and seem to be heading for a struggle (I hope I am wrong).

I can't see the bigger clubs holding much truck with a reduced cap, I think they'll look at a smaller league first, as long as it doesn't impact on the Sky contract too much.

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The bit in bold is utter tripe.

I have often stated quite clearly that ANY club can make a go of SL, I have never stated that any club could NEVER get in and stay in.

I have often also repeated ad nauseam that its all about money. Any club that can generate enough money can get there, if you can't get the funds though forget it, you'll just near kill the club.

And so have I stated that it is all about the money ad nauseam multam, but you seem to take the view that no club will get the money and no club will therefore get into SL. This dismissal of Sheffield's ambitions is a case in point. As I and others have stated, they are not ready, they do not have the money. This might not always be the case. Their administrators are working on it. Instead of repeating the usual " They don't have money, they will never have money, their crowds are too small, they have no players base, they can't get into SL for 20 years", why don't you just accept the positive strides they have made for their club, briefly state your case re the money and then wish them well and hope the plans they have to get into SL are successful.

The condemnation or dismissal of Sheffield or Featherstone or any other lower level wannabe is in stark contrast to the overwhelming support and ignoring of money issues that was extended to Bradford.

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And so have I stated that it is all about the money ad nauseam multam, but you seem to take the view that no club will get the money and no club will therefore get into SL. This dismissal of Sheffield's ambitions is a case in point. As I and others have stated, they are not ready, they do not have the money. This might not always be the case. Their administrators are working on it. Instead of repeating the usual " They don't have money, they will never have money, their crowds are too small, they have no players base, they can't get into SL for 20 years", why don't you just accept the positive strides they have made for their club, briefly state your case re the money and then wish them well and hope the plans they have to get into SL are successful.

The condemnation or dismissal of Sheffield or Featherstone or any other lower level wannabe is in stark contrast to the overwhelming support and ignoring of money issues that was extended to Bradford.

Where have I dismissed or condemned or where have I said Sheffield will never have the money, more tripe, as for Featherstone I stated years back and often repeated that they are the dark horse for an SL spot and could finish up as the 'Calder' club, so yet more tripe.

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