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GeordieSaint

Eagles for SL

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Would that be a good thing for Doncaster RL?

What a silly question Gavin! Are you questioning the financial might and worldwide pulling power of Doncaster Rovers FC?

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With the exception of a few teams most SL teams seem to rely on a sugar daddy or are in financial difficulties. On this basis Sheffield would not meet SL criteria....

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Sorry to be pedantic, but....I think you will find that the Sheffield club to which you refer is still in Superleague and throughout the year pulled an aggregate attendance of 100,000+ and finished in the play-off positions...not exactly failure

http://wck2.companie...932/compdetails

They simply changed names!

Yes you are absolutely right but the crux of the matter is that they no longer play in Sheffield. Do you think they could have survived as a SL club had they remained in Sheffield ?

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1. Is there a 'rugby league core' in Sheffield? I must have missed it whilst I was living there. Perhaps you're referring to the ONE amateur club in the entire city. I guess that's a 'core.'

2. If Sheffield does want a franchise at some point then it needs to look long term and aim to plant deep roots (ie, more than one grassroots club!) or it's doomed to fail.

3. The two "mediocre soccer clubs" have loyal and fanatical support....

1. With little amateur base, no big money man, and a fanbase that numbered 4600 last time they were doing well in SL it doesn't take a genius to work out they are well short of Superleague today.

2. Johnoco says "Almost every massive sports club in the world started with a few people trying to do something for fun or for their local community, not for success" and indeed many of our big clubs started like that. It's no coincidence most of our successful SL clubs have roots well in excess of 100 years and several operate in non top class-soccer areas.

3. If Eagles had started about 1850 they may have had a chance to grow as Johnoco illustrates, but to try to grow big enough roots between two giant soccer clubs like United and Wednesday, with their fanatical support....well it's not going to happen, and more so the 30 year record is there. It hasn't happened. Soccer got there first big time.

Why do clubs with no chance of competing in SL apply? I can only think it's a way of keeping the fans on board and an impetus going. Better to be rejected by the evil RFL/SLE than be promoted and be thrashed every week and fail due to your own shortcomings. After RFL/SLE rejection you can always bleat about how unfair it all was (even though you know you had no money) until the RFL give you a call to tell you to shut up. And shut up the likes of Leigh and Fax did.

I did have high hopes the Championship could have become a tremendous vibrant regional 14 club league that clubs would be proud to be in and that clubs would be proud to develop and enjoy but this feeder club thing may have stuffed that so I have great sympathy for the smaller clubs but reality is reality.

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4,600 is far more than Broncos and Sheffield, as you have observed in the past, isn't that far from West Yorkshire. I don't get the parochial insistence that players need to come from South Yorkshire. Is there a big West vs South Yorks feud?

At present Sheffield probably fall short but I can't imagine why some seem to think this a permanent thing.

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What a silly question Gavin! Are you questioning the financial might and worldwide pulling power of Doncaster Rovers FC?

Doncaster Rovers have some very rich men on their board of directors, what they realised when they moved the club from the conference upwards was there potential based on their support through the gates, they have basically imposed and managed their own salary cap from day one and John Ryan openly stated at the outset the highest he believed the club could operate with comfort was the championship.

Rovers secured a 99 Year operating lease from D M B C this year to manage the Keepmoat and John Ryan now whats to improve operating results of the stadium, with this the Rovers Directors have been in talks with all the present user groups and others, they (Rovers Directors) understand that they will need to invest in the Dons to try and get more people to their home games.

Will this work who knows but Ryan and the rest of the Rovers directors seem to think it's going to be worth a shot.

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1. With little amateur base, no big money man, and a fanbase that numbered 4600 last time they were doing well in SL it doesn't take a genius to work out they are well short of Superleague today.

2. Johnoco says "Almost every massive sports club in the world started with a few people trying to do something for fun or for their local community, not for success" and indeed many of our big clubs started like that. It's no coincidence most of our successful SL clubs have roots well in excess of 100 years and several operate in non top class-soccer areas.

3. If Eagles had started about 1850 they may have had a chance to grow as Johnoco illustrates, but to try to grow big enough roots between two giant soccer clubs like United and Wednesday, with their fanatical support....well it's not going to happen, and more so the 30 year record is there. It hasn't happened. Soccer got there first big time.

Why do clubs with no chance of competing in SL apply? I can only think it's a way of keeping the fans on board and an impetus going. Better to be rejected by the evil RFL/SLE than be promoted and be thrashed every week and fail due to your own shortcomings. After RFL/SLE rejection you can always bleat about how unfair it all was (even though you know you had no money) until the RFL give you a call to tell you to shut up. And shut up the likes of Leigh and Fax did.

I did have high hopes the Championship could have become a tremendous vibrant regional 14 club league that clubs would be proud to be in and that clubs would be proud to develop and enjoy but this feeder club thing may have stuffed that so I have great sympathy for the smaller clubs but reality is reality.

You're absolutely right Parky. I despair, I really do. Sheffield sold 250 tickets for last season's GF and not many more this season on the evidence of the crowd figure. But hey, they're in a big city, get them in SL. Not a cat in hell's chance of succeeding. We never learn, do we?

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Is there a 'rugby league core' in Sheffield? I must have missed it whilst I was living there. Perhaps you're referring to the ONE amateur club in the entire city. I guess that's a 'core.'

If Sheffield does want a franchise at some point then it needs to look long term and aim to plant deep roots (ie, more than one grassroots club!) or it's doomed to fail.

The two "mediocre soccer clubs" have loyal and fanatical support and, although the people of Sheffield will support other minority sports such as ice hockey in reasonable numbers, rugby league (or more specifically the Eagles) needs to take off the fur coat and put on some knickers.

Pretty accurate. The reality of the local player base (stretching from Derbyshire up to Barnsley) is that there are at most 8 amateur open age sides, most of which are social sides. Five clubs with juniors, total number of full junior sides is about 10. Next year's first team squad will have 4-5 players from this base, of which only Stringer (who is a product of Sheffield's Academy from the SL days via Hoyland) is a first choice selection.

The club are pretty good at exploiting commercial sponsorship, which would be easier in SL. The crowds will never get near the football crowds, but could match the ice hockey if the marketing was done properly.

Knowing Mark Aston, he will not stop until he gets in SL or he keels over. What he's done so far to take the Eagles to the top of the semi-pro pile from nothing is a remarkable story - if for one moment he'd considered how difficult the job was he'd have probably packed in and gone to coach in SL.

It's interesting that fans from other clubs, who normally deride the SL application process, are suddenly using it against the Eagles. I think the likes of Fev, Fax and Leigh realise there's another contender, and a serious one. Whether they would survive and then thrive, who knows. If the Bulls can struggle, almost anybody could.

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You're absolutely right Parky. I despair, I really do. Sheffield sold 250 tickets for last season's GF and not many more this season on the evidence of the crowd figure. But hey, they're in a big city, get them in SL. Not a cat in hell's chance of succeeding. We never learn, do we?

Hang on, this discussion is pretty much based on the fact that they have won the GF, not merely that they are based in a big city. In another life they would have been promoted anyway, so how can you deride them when that is what you are calling for?

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This discussion is pretty much based on the fact that they have won the GF, not merely that they are based in a big city. In another life they would have been promoted anyway,

So come on everybody. If Eagles were being promoted in a few months time how would they do and how would they do it?????

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I don't know why any of you are talking about Sheffield for super league because Wigan are the moral champions because grand finals don't count.

Seriously though, good luck with whatever you decide to do. Surely a grand final win can only help to kick start development in the area. Lets not forget that fev were nl2 not that long ago, a million miles away from sl and now they really are banging on the door with rival bids from 2 established clubs to permanently contend with.

Surely the people of Sheffield would see that the product the football sides of the city is absolute dross in comparison to rl. There again, these are dee dars we are talking about. (Sorry to most of my work colleagues, couldn't help it). I think as someone else has mentioned, with the right marketing, it shouldn't just be Sheffield they should be aiming for.

Go eagles!

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If only mate. Amateur base too small as is the fan base.

Two clubs more than Featherstone thou and all three Donny clubs have their own players ;) ;)

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So come on everybody. If Eagles were being promoted in a few months time how would they do and how would they do it?????

They wouldn't be just starting now though would they? If promotion was a possibility, chances are they might have had people/finances on board by now.

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Is that a consideration for a team outside the traditional heartlands?

Big city club, in the right hands, could bring a lot to the table.

I live in Sheffield they play decent RL and the people who run the club are a credit but you are not going to get the dee dars to leave footblall for RL not a chance the City has 2 big football clubs the rest are into ice hockey

However we should have promotion relegation and regardless of gates or stadium the team who performs where it counts on the field should be rewarded

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Nor do I.

Open question to all,

Where will Sheffield Eagles get their money, players and fans from?

I would play 2 seasons at the Lane and let all United and Wednesday season ticket holders in for nothing for the first year just to see if interest can be generated

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I would play 2 seasons at the Lane and let all United and Wednesday season ticket holders in for nothing for the first year just to see if interest can be generated

Not a bad idea....if the Weds fans will lower themselves. ;)

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Catch 22. They dont get bigger crowds because they declared that they didnt want to go up .......

Far, far, far too simplistic.

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Hang on, this discussion is pretty much based on the fact that they have won the GF, not merely that they are based in a big city. In another life they would have been promoted anyway, so how can you deride them when that is what you are calling for?

But it's not another life is it? As it stands now we have a licensing system which needs to be adhered to, depending on who you are of course, which involves being able to attract a reasonable crowd, cash, stadium, junior development et al. Winning a GF counts for very little in the process. If you can show me the evidence that Sheffield have these attributes then fair do's. Sheffield is not a RL city and never will be despite Mark Aston's remarkable efforts. They pulled off one of the biggest shocks in Challenge Cup history in beating the star studded Wigan side at Wembley but even that didn't capture the imagination of the Sheffield public, so why would it now?

What's changed?

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I live in Sheffield they play decent RL and the people who run the club are a credit but you are not going to get the dee dars to leave football for RL not a chance ....

They can't watch both, then ? :huh:

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Sorry to be pedantic, but....I think you will find that the Sheffield club to which you refer is still in Superleague and throughout the year pulled an aggregate attendance of 100,000+ and finished in the play-off positions...not exactly failure

http://wck2.companie...932/compdetails

They simply changed names!

That's true. It was Huddersfield who went bust.

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Many of the objections on here to Sheffield in SL seem quite valid, lack of fans, lack of big investor, lack of juniors, major competiton from soccer etc.

However, I am sure the management of Sheffield Eagles are well aware of all this and are also aware of the conditions to be met before they can apply for A SL licence. If they feel that they are in a position to apply for one, then I say let them do so. If they don't have plans in place with regards to all the crtieria necessary for a successful application, then they will not be granted a licence.

The progress of the Eagles, since their admittance to the CC1 as a new club following the loss of the previous Eagles in the merger with the Giants, is a remarkable success story. They are now CC champions, having beaten the red hot favourites in the grand final and, I think I am right in saying, that they had made a profit last season.

The record of Mark Aston, as a player, a coach and an executive is one of the most remarkable and under appreciated success stories in recent RL history, in my opinion. If he thinks he can make a successful application to SL for his Sheffield brand, then I would'nt bet against him in spite of the obstacles in his way as listed on this thread.

If he suceeds, then we have SL expansion in a big City, just what we want. If he fails, then, it won't be the first time for SL, will uit? I say, let him try and see what happens.

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I'm sure Sheffield Eagles would easily record crowds greater than what London Broncos have been getting if allowed into Super League, simply because the away teams would have more travelling support and the people of South Yorkshire would be more likely to come out to watch your Wigans and Leeds of the rugby league world than Rochdale or Batley.

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Look - there's a lot of rubbish being posted here.

Barnsley outside Sheffield's area ? What ? Sheffield have serviced it for as long as I can remember. Has no club ever signed a player living more than ten miles away or summat ?

Sheffield's Achilles heel is its fanbase. They need to throw the kitchen sink at getting crowds in for a couple of years. If it works - fine. If it doesn't, back off for say, ten years, stick where they are and then - if they think the time's right, have another go at upping the fanbase. To be fair, they've had Tim Bergin onto that this year, he's improved the crowds (well, crowds have improved, anyway :happy: ) but, imho, they're still playing at it.

Finances ? Well, the last two years published accounts (2010 and 2011) show a modest profit. If crowds had been up at the 2500 mark, that'd obviously be a bigger profit. Commercially, they do very well. Contrast that with Fev - bigger crowds, more successful on the field, own their own ground - lost £80000ish and £90000ish in 2009 and 2010 respectively. 2011 accounts might be better - on the other hand, they're overdue at Companies House and that generally means bad news.

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Wasn't the first Euro SL game Sheffield v Paris?

Sorry if it's already been posted, but I really can't be ars@d with reading the entire thread

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They wouldn't be just starting now though would they? If promotion was a possibility, chances are they might have had people/finances on board by now.

People/finances??

Where from? Who??

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