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GeordieSaint

Eagles for SL

550 posts in this topic

Look - there's a lot of rubbish being posted here.

Finances ? Well, the last two years published accounts (2010 and 2011) show a modest profit. If crowds had been up at the 2500 mark, that'd obviously be a bigger profit. Commercially, they do very well. Contrast that with Fev - bigger crowds, more successful on the field, own their own ground - lost £80000ish and £90000ish in 2009 and 2010 respectively.

So they make a modest profit on a sub £1,000,000 turnover?

What will an extra 1500 fans bring them then £250K a year?? Now they are up to £1.25M turnover, add the SKY money and they are past the £2.5M mark.

All they will need then is to contract a Million pounds worth of pro players........

So all I can see is a massive loss.

At HKR Neil Hudgell provided the Millions for the players and on 8,000 gates HKR still lose £500,000 a year........

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People/finances??

Where from? Who??

That would be their job to discover. If they couldn't get them no promotion but maybe they should have a fair shot at trying.

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That would be their job to discover. If they couldn't get them no promotion but maybe they should have a fair shot at trying.

Fair enough. Someone out there may want to throw a million pounds or more a year at Sheffield ad infinitum to get not very far, but I am at a loss to think why and believe it is a very very very long shot.

And anyway the Likes of Hughes, Hudgell and Wilkinson who did it because they were big fans of their clubs have tried it and failed to get very far.

Is there really some super rich looney out there in an Eagles shirt?

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Fair enough. Someone out there may want to throw a million pounds or more a year at Sheffield ad infinitum to get not very far, but I am at a loss to think why and believe it is a very very very long shot.

And anyway the Likes of Hughes, Hudgell and Wilkinson who did it because they were big fans of their clubs have tried it and failed to get very far.

Is there really some super rich looney out there in an Eagles shirt?

I think we are unlikely to find out anytime soon. But there might be one out there.....you never know.

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So they make a modest profit on a sub £1,000,000 turnover?

What will an extra 1500 fans bring them then £250K a year?? Now they are up to £1.25M turnover, add the SKY money and they are past the £2.5M mark.

All they will need then is to contract a Million pounds worth of pro players........

So all I can see is a massive loss.

At HKR Neil Hudgell provided the Millions for the players and on 8,000 gates HKR still lose £500,000 a year........

What I was suggesting is that they need to build up their fanbase to 2500 at Championship level before they consider applying for $uperleague - not that they could exist in $uperleague on gates of 2500. :dry:

2500 is the mark set by the RFL.

Personally, I think it's too low.

And I can't make sense of your figures - Sheffield already have a player payroll cost. On your figures the Sky money covers the payroll.

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Wasn't the first Euro SL game Sheffield v Paris?

Almost - Paris v Sheffield.

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Almost - Paris v Sheffield.

Yes and with a 17,000 crowd. Goes to show you that crowd size is not always the most important thing when judging SL clubs. Look what happened to Paris.

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Hasn't a Sheffield club already had a go in Super League ? - and failed. Why would any new attempt be different ?

Totally agree with this point but we are running out of places to try...even Cumbria and north Wales didnt work so where next?

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Yes and with a 17,000 crowd. Goes to show you that crowd size is not always the most important thing when judging SL clubs. Look what happened to Paris.

Totally agree - I'm not into giving huge numbers of free tickets away.

It devalues your product.

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Quite depressing some of the attitudes in this thread, but not altogether surprising. Sheffield Eagles have been outsiders for 25-plus years. I think the club and its hardcore of fans quite like it this way.

The Eagles have made no secret of their desire to get back in to Super League at some point - they've been talking about it for years. The RFL also know that the Eagles are keen on Super League, and have been for years. The difference between Sheffield and some of the other aspirational clubs in the Championships is that we haven't been shouting about it - we've been trying to improve in areas where we're weak.

Hence, as Griff points out, the club has begun to focus on marketing and attracting new fans. They did this a bit this year but will crank it up next year, I suspect. Of course, they will only spend what they can afford on it - we will not go into debt chasing a pipe dream, as others have.

Those bemoaning the lack of junior/amateur clubs, fair enough to a point. However, the Eagles have good links with clubs far beyond the confines of South Yorkshire and see the East Midlands as "their patch". They are one of only two clubs in the Championships (Fev being the other) that run the full compliment of youth/academy/scholarship/junior teams. This does not come cheap, but they do it because they are committed to producing their own players - and more of them. Mark Aston is more committed to development and community RL in Sheffield and the surrounding areas than almost anyone else - he has stated on many occasions that his dream is to have a Sheffield team in SL again featuring local youngsters.

If you read the BBC piece and listen to the interview with Ian Swire, the Eagles' chairman, he says that the club will not apply until they are ready to do so. He also states that the club is nowhere near ready yet, but is moving in the right direction. I think he's right - there are issues to be addressed and the club is doing that.

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They can't watch both, then ? :huh:

All comes down to cash and not a lot of it around in South Yorkshire

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I would play 2 seasons at the Lane and let all United and Wednesday season ticket holders in for nothing for the first year just to see if interest can be generated

Which would mean than many existing Eagles' season ticket holders would get in for nowt. Could be expensive.

And - again - you just imply that your product is worthless. When the offer's over, most of them won't pay to come so how valuable was your "market research" ?

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Quite depressing some of the attitudes in this thread, but not altogether surprising. Sheffield Eagles have been outsiders for 25-plus years. I think the club and its hardcore of fans quite like it this way.

The Eagles have made no secret of their desire to get back in to Super League at some point - they've been talking about it for years. The RFL also know that the Eagles are keen on Super League, and have been for years. The difference between Sheffield and some of the other aspirational clubs in the Championships is that we haven't been shouting about it - we've been trying to improve in areas where we're weak.

Hence, as Griff points out, the club has begun to focus on marketing and attracting new fans. They did this a bit this year but will crank it up next year, I suspect. Of course, they will only spend what they can afford on it - we will not go into debt chasing a pipe dream, as others have.

Those bemoaning the lack of junior/amateur clubs, fair enough to a point. However, the Eagles have good links with clubs far beyond the confines of South Yorkshire and see the East Midlands as "their patch". They are one of only two clubs in the Championships (Fev being the other) that run the full compliment of youth/academy/scholarship/junior teams. This does not come cheap, but they do it because they are committed to producing their own players - and more of them. Mark Aston is more committed to development and community RL in Sheffield and the surrounding areas than almost anyone else - he has stated on many occasions that his dream is to have a Sheffield team in SL again featuring local youngsters.

If you read the BBC piece and listen to the interview with Ian Swire, the Eagles' chairman, he says that the club will not apply until they are ready to do so. He also states that the club is nowhere near ready yet, but is moving in the right direction. I think he's right - there are issues to be addressed and the club is doing that.

When will they be ready then. I cant see crowds improving dramatically under the current ridiculous way of selecting a promoted team. You could have the best marketing team in the world but it will be almost impossible to convince your man on the street in Sheffield to go to games which are meaningless, especially in a city used to promotion and relegation.

The other problem is that Sheffield could actually go downhill next year on the pitch and momentum would be lost. This would be a crying shame. Would have been wonderful if the Eagles has been rightfully promoted this year

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When will they be ready then. I cant see crowds improving dramatically under the current ridiculous way of selecting a promoted team. You could have the best marketing team in the world but it will be almost impossible to convince your man on the street in Sheffield to go to games which are meaningless, especially in a city used to promotion and relegation.

Believe me - there are big crowds for meaningless games at Hillsborough and Bramall Lane. :lol:

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Sheffields problem is they are nothing in the Sporting world with Wednesday, United and the Hockey grabbing most of the limelight. Having a very small fan base playing in big Stadiums (Bramall Lane and the awful Don Valley) doesnt help build an atmosphere and make it a place to be seen. With few amateur teams in the city, it cant work of that side of things too much. And whilst Sheffield have done well I honestly cant see them being fit and ready for SL soon. You look at how many clubs are struggling in SL under its current structure. I cant see Sheffield doing well in SL with a tiny fan base, No money man and they would likely need a massive step up off the field to be FT. Under the current system I think Sheffield are best where they are as feel SL would damage much of the good work they have done. They would likely be cannon fodder in SL and the crowd would not get behind them especially if they are getting smashed most weeks which is a strong possibility.

How can the likes of part time clubs in Halifax, Sheffield and Featherstone afford to run teams at various levels, but SL teams claim they cant? Is it just SL clubs making excuses and not wanting to do the hard work and run academy teams? For me without knowing all the details if PT Clubs can run academy teams at U18s and U23s and other levels, then so should ALL SL teams.

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Sheffields problem is they are nothing in the Sporting world with Wednesday, United and the Hockey grabbing most of the limelight. Having a very small fan base playing in big Stadiums (Bramall Lane and the awful Don Valley) doesnt help build an atmosphere and make it a place to be seen. With few amateur teams in the city, it cant work of that side of things too much. And whilst Sheffield have done well I honestly cant see them being fit and ready for SL soon. You look at how many clubs are struggling in SL under its current structure. I cant see Sheffield doing well in SL with a tiny fan base, No money man and they would likely need a massive step up off the field to be FT. Under the current system I think Sheffield are best where they are as feel SL would damage much of the good work they have done. They would likely be cannon fodder in SL and the crowd would not get behind them especially if they are getting smashed most weeks which is a strong possibility.

How can the likes of part time clubs in Halifax, Sheffield and Featherstone afford to run teams at various levels, but SL teams claim they cant? Is it just SL clubs making excuses and not wanting to do the hard work and run academy teams? For me without knowing all the details if PT Clubs can run academy teams at U18s and U23s and other levels, then so should ALL SL teams.

That post seems very true but I think you hit the nail on the head when you commented about the lack of money and rich investor(s). All the other things can be fixed if the money is in place. They averaged around 4,000 last time without a money man as far as I know. As Griff says they are looking to market and improve their crowds on their present budget but it will be difficult. If they had investor money, I am sure they could generate a winning team even in SL and bigger crowds. It is true that Sheffield has the two soccer clubs but I would guess it is big enough to have a place for the Eagles. They have a presence in the Citie's sporting memory bank due to their Challenge Cup win and this latest trophy might just reignite some of those old supporters or even new ones but money is the key in my opinion.

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That post seems very true but I think you hit the nail on the head when you commented about the lack of money and rich investor(s). All the other things can be fixed if the money is in place. They averaged around 4,000 last time without a money man as far as I know. As Griff says they are looking to market and improve their crowds on their present budget but it will be difficult. If they had investor money, I am sure they could generate a winning team even in SL and bigger crowds. It is true that Sheffield has the two soccer clubs but I would guess it is big enough to have a place for the Eagles. They have a presence in the City's sporting memory bank due to their Challenge Cup win and this latest trophy might just reignite some of those old supporters or even new ones but money is the key in my opinion.

No - you're wrong about the money man. It was Paul Thompson and it was his withdrawal that precipitated the flit to Huddersfield.

I'm not keen to repeat that experience.

Of course it's all about money. But, imho, it has to be generated by the club. I don't want Eagles just to build up huge borrowings along the Shuddersfield or Fev models.

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Quite depressing some of the attitudes in this thread,

Ian Swire, the Eagles' chairman, says that the club will not apply until they are ready to do so. He also states that the club is nowhere near ready yet, but is moving in the right direction.

I note only realism certainly no depression.

Good for the Eagles aiming to have more people playing RL in and around Sheffield and good luck to their support for the game extending to the east midlands. What a great club.

And they truly are moving in the right direction but their own chairman admits they are "nowhere near" SL.

So it's fair to take the view that Eagles have no chance of SL for a long time, if ever.

That's not to bemoan what they are admirably trying to do to extend the game beyond the M62. I don't find it depressing that our minority game is becoming a minority game all over the country as opposed to being non existent pre-1996.

As I say the clubs who are succeeding in SL and the clubs who may go on to succeed have the benefit of over 100 years of development rooted in a time when soccer was not everything.

Sheffield's achievements against their handicap in this area should be applauded loudly, but sadly the same handicap prevents them from being likely SL material.

They beat off many traditional clubs to be top championship dog. What spoilt that for me was the immediate cry for Eagles in SL. The Eagles are a great success in what they are doing today......

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Would have been wonderful if the Eagles has been rightfully promoted this year

To do what?

Struggle to find any money to strengthen the team, get beat every week, and be facing relegation by easter?

Dream on.

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I honestly cant see them being fit and ready for SL soon. You look at how many clubs are struggling in SL under its current structure. I cant see Sheffield doing well in SL with a tiny fan base, No money man and they would likely need a massive step up off the field to be FT. Under the current system I think Sheffield are best where they are as feel SL would damage much of the good work they have done.

Well said LRL.

For some dreamers SL is everything for the realist it can be a very damaging place for your club to go.

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I am sure they could generate a winning team even in SL and bigger crowds.

How exactly.....

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To do what?

Struggle to find any money to strengthen the team, get beat every week, and be facing relegation by easter?

Dream on.

Doesnt that also apply more so in NL1? At least in SL they would get SL cash and be able to attract an investor. With the current "promotion by panel" system, no-one in their right mind would invest big money in an NL1 club - unless you were Widnes and on a promise due to the sympathy vote

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No - you're wrong about the money man. It was Paul Thompson and it was his withdrawal that precipitated the flit to Huddersfield.

I'm not keen to repeat that experience.

Of course it's all about money. But, imho, it has to be generated by the club. I don't want Eagles just to build up huge borrowings along the Shuddersfield or Fev models.

I didn't know that so my apologies, but the point stands. You guys might still be in SL doing really well if Thompson had stayed.

Re your last paragraph. Are you saying you are against investor money?. To generate it all yourself is fine but all the teams in SL with the exceptiion of Cas have investor input as part of their strategy.

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How exactly.....

Oh, Parksider, please. It's all about the money. If they had it they could develop or buy a winning team. If they had the money they could aggressivrely market the club in Sheffield to attract new spectators. If they had the winning team due to the money, then a winning SL team, all by itself would get more people throught the gate.

Sheffield might not be ready for SL but they have potential. Please don't go off on one of your rants which basically repeat the refrain that the only people who should ever be in SL or who will ever be in SL are the present incumbents.

I expect your next post to start moaning on about turnover and lack, of local juniors and small crowds. Its all about the money.

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