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GeordieSaint

Eagles for SL

550 posts in this topic

It's very simple. If a club can find someone to put a couple of million pounds a year into SL they get a place.

If a club can't find any investment and they are skint they don't get a place.

Nobody is a naysayer or against any club (well solly may be) It's just a reality that you need............

Now you say it.

If there is such a team and there are no obvious underachieving cull candidates, as per Crusaders last time, who will you support to be dropped. If there is such a team with the requisite investor support and then there is a Bulls going into admin who will you support for the drop. Are you sure their new investor is putting in 2,000,000 a year at Bradford.

I suspect you will still be championing the incumbent old school members whatever better proposition comes along. You are stuck in an unchanging and unchangeable time warp where no alternative scenarios to your preconceived, set in stone, attitudes are to be allowed.

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1. Oh come on Solly history teaches us a heck of a lot.

The main thing history teaches us is that we don't learn from it. BUt jokes aside, whilst you can learn from it, it doesn't mean much to people who were not alive at the time.

The glory days of Leeds United was the Batty / McAllistair / Speed era from me 'cos I was only a babe when Don Revie was in charge.

2. I can't see a backer for sheffield...........

No, there isn't one but that's not to say that there could never be one.

3. Because it seems from the historical record the people who want to back Superleague tend to have an affinity with the game or a club and tend to only go for clubs big enough to be able to get somewhere.

There are exceptions to the last rule - Wilko and Hughes plough oceans of money in.

But again my bottom line is Sheffield is a soccer city and the businessmen there get on board at the soccer clubs. I work for two of them. It's a very long shot that someone with sheds of money will pick up the Eagles. far more chance of rich businessmen picking up Fax, leigh, Fev, Oldham, Rochdale, Swinton, York, Workington, Hunslet etc etc where there have been clubs for many years and where some of their fans could have made it big and want to take the club into SL. If it ain't happening there then it ain't happening in sheffield.

BESIDES the last 18 months or so has seen most of those who fund Superleague start to draw back from writing out large checks. It could certainly be the case in 2015 that you may not be allowed to include directors loans into business plans.

Yes, but this is true of any expansion club, they have trouble finding backers because they don't have the deep roots in the community that M62 clubs have (or used to have). Why pick on Sheffield?

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I suspect you will still be championing the incumbent old school members whatever better proposition comes along.

You suspect wrong. PM me when a better proposition arrives.

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:huh: The Op picked on Sheffield to discuss?

Great. I'll start an expansion teams for SL thread and you can dismiss each side as lacking SL players and a backer and thus conclude that they should never join SL.

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I'll start an expansion teams for SL thread and you can dismiss each side as lacking SL players and a backer and thus conclude that they should never join SL.

Please do, I'd be happy to contribute.

You can set out in your OP how exactly you envisage the clubs rising through the two divisions to provide an SL application better than current incumbents.

I may be pleasantly suprised.

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You seem to be forgetting that Doncaster will also be tapping into the South Yorkshire areas as well.

Damn, knew there was something t'other side of the A1!

Only kidding, the debate was about the Eagles in truth, but SY as a whole deserves more attention

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I agree about Don Valley Stadium and, for different reasons, Bramall Lane.

Personally though, I reckon the new(ish) stadium at Chesterfield might be a better bet, particularly if the club is serious in its aim to 'claim' the midlands.

http://www.theproactstadium.co.uk/

Hmmm, not for this Eagles fan...nor quite a few I suspect

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It is the RFL, North Derbyshire Chargers and Derby City who provide the funding for the Community Coach who has built up the activity in North Derbyshire and it is the RFL who have provided significant investment into other posts at the Eagles that cover South Yorkshire (as they have the other professional clubs in the country).

Cheers, didn't know that. Valuable indeed

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Part of the Eagles constitution states that one person cannot be a majority shareholder. That may put off some of the more dubious investors.

It was what we signed up to when the club reformed. I have a share somewhere.

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http://wck2.companie...28f/compdetails

Pay your quid and see for yourself .......

You said....

"Contrast that with Fev - bigger crowds, more successful on the field, own their own ground - lost £80000ish and £90000ish in 2009 and 2010 respectively. 2011 accounts might be better - on the other hand, they're overdue at Companies House and that generally means bad news".

I'm happy to take your word for it, I was looking to confirm and not doubt.

Last night the Casfans website held a rumour of the club being £2M in debt and finding a large tax bill hard to fund.

The post with the rumour and another looking for verification were seemingly removed.

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The post with the rumour and another looking for verification were seemingly removed.

Interesting - seeing as it's easily verifiable fact. :huh:

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Interesting - seeing as it's easily verifiable fact. :huh:

I think you may be underestimating your skill and knowledge when it comes to checking the position of company accounts.

But basically Cas are £2M in debt and owe a large tax bill then?

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But it's not another life is it? As it stands now we have a licensing system which needs to be adhered to, depending on who you are of course, which involves being able to attract a reasonable crowd, cash, stadium, junior development et al. Winning a GF counts for very little in the process. If you can show me the evidence that Sheffield have these attributes then fair do's. Sheffield is not a RL city and never will be despite Mark Aston's remarkable efforts. They pulled off one of the biggest shocks in Challenge Cup history in beating the star studded Wigan side at Wembley but even that didn't capture the imagination of the Sheffield public, so why would it now?

What's changed?

Just started reading this thread. Got here and thought i ought to reply so sorry if this has already been mentioned.

Was talking to a friend about this over the weekend.. What has changed? the football sides have plumeted down the leagues, Wednesday have nearly gone under and United are pretty poor at the moment. when we won the challenge cup Wednesday had had a good run in the Premier League, the league cup win of 91 and the final of 93 along with the FA Cup final of 93 were not that distant a memory banks along wth good years in the premiership, United also had years in the premiership to remember, an fa cup semi in 93 and one against newcastle in the not too distant. People really thought the football teams were going to kick on.

Now both are rubbish and many many moons away from any chance of glory (unless wednesday some how have a run in the fa cup this year ala millwall from a few years ago) but with the right marketing etc the fans could (but i stress could) turn their attention to RL for success..

a few people have said on here about moving fans away from football and to RL.. but that doesnt really make sense.. why do we have to move them away from football??? what we need to do is make them go and watch RL.. its not an either/or situation.. the seasons overlap a bit yes but why cant we have both..

If you look at the coverage in Sheffield it is pretty shocking.. but this can be worked on, 2 grand finals and 1 win can be used to try and attract the fans.. this is some of the hard work that the club have to do over the winter. Last couple of years the club has been getting into the schools.. that may ramp up a setp or two and with this success it may help. My little boy does a "play ball Rugby" session which Jack Howeison runs with help from some of the other players on a Saturday morning (my boy is only 4).. I take him and chat to some of the other dads, some of which i have known through nursery etc. All of which now that their kids are getting into Rugby are showing an interest in the club Jack is playing for, i am try to take advantage of that and next year will take a trip of these dads to a game. 1 anecdote yes but Jack does these sessions all over Sheffield, how many others may be doing the same as me. Some of these sessions are into the private schools here too.. money men starting to get an interest perhaps..

again its very much clutching at straws and anecdotes but its interest and from small acorns etc. yes a lot of work has to be done, but its not necessarily all done and dusted just yet..

What i would say is that Eagles ought to apply this time around, with a view to the next one but to get an idea of where they are and what they need to do.. but i dont see why Sheffield cannot grow into a good club with a good solid base.. just as good as umpteen clubs already in the league who have had a good long time to become "power houses".

for those on P&R bandwagons.. it would be THE WORST thing to happen to sheffield next year IMO, they would desperately try to stay up spending money on the team and not having any to spend on the more important aspects of a "club"... more than that with P&R who ever came down last year would probably have won this year and so clubs like the eagles wouldnt have the chance for a bit of success to try and build things from...

anyway fact is box is ticked, they are allowed to apply so let them.. if they fall well short then so be it, if they dont and they get let in the lets, as this big RL family every so "admires", get behind them and hope it succeeds.

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When will they be ready then. I cant see crowds improving dramatically under the current ridiculous way of selecting a promoted team. You could have the best marketing team in the world but it will be almost impossible to convince your man on the street in Sheffield to go to games which are meaningless, especially in a city used to promotion and relegation.

The other problem is that Sheffield could actually go downhill next year on the pitch and momentum would be lost. This would be a crying shame. Would have been wonderful if the Eagles has been rightfully promoted this year

no it wouldnt... we would have had a year of getting shelackings (thanks stevo) and crowds dwiddling becuase we are getting tonked week in week out.. spending money we dont have on players to try and stay up instead of concentrating on the important things like academies and sustainability.

Yes the first paragraph is tough if that attitude prevails but from talking to people in the city (shocking this) they dont see an issue when you tell them how it actually works, many see it as eminantly sensible.. its just then getting those people through the gates, and they are working hard on that to be honest..

you have a very negative view on liscencing but it is not necessarily true of many..

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For those on P&R bandwagons.. it would be THE WORST thing to happen to sheffield next year IMO, they would desperately try to stay up spending money on the team and not having any to spend on the more important aspects of a "club"...

Can you enlarge on that in a letter and send it to the rather brilliant sports administrator Andy Burnham MP........

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But basically Cas are £2M in debt and owe a large tax bill then?

Tell you when the accounts are filed sometime next year ...... :wacko::lol:

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OK so let's say over the years they have had a couple of crackerjacks from Barnsley, and a couple of promising kids from Sheffield and Derbyshire. Would that make them a good proposition for Superleague?

when i grew up in sheffield the school i was in had to travel to the likes of wakefield to play Rugby there were very few playing either code in sheffield.. now there are a number of schools playing rugby of one form or an other (tag, union, league).. i am surprised by how many to be honest from when i left... and even from the late 90's this has changed massivly.. with a super league team this could be exploited more so than it is at the moment.. look how long it has taken other areas to do this... i am not saying it will work but to discount it as a possiblity is going against what both you and i have said about london, ie that they have only really been going at the youth since 2000 and may be a bit after so they are doing well and they have been in super league in that time.. eagles have not and have only been in existence in this guise since 2000!

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I agree about Don Valley Stadium and, for different reasons, Bramall Lane.

Personally though, I reckon the new(ish) stadium at Chesterfield might be a better bet, particularly if the club is serious in its aim to 'claim' the midlands.

http://www.theproactstadium.co.uk/

Its a good stadium.. but its a "sheffield" team so one would think it would need a change of this to really be able to kick this on... i wouldnt necessrily be against that but i dont know what to to not alienate different people... would be interesting.

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In that guise - happen. But Sheffield have had a Rugby League team for 28 years now.

When I was a kid, I don't recall people referring to Whitehaven or Workington as "new teams" and they'd been going a lot less than 28 years.

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Can you enlarge on that in a letter and send it to the rather brilliant sports administrator Andy Burnham MP........

did it a bit ago.. pointing out that both have their merits and that maybe its time to give a different way of working a chance before burning it like a heretic!

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In that guise - happen. But Sheffield have had a Rugby League team for 28 years now.

When I was a kid, I don't recall people referring to Whitehaven or Workington as "new teams" and they'd been going a lot less than 28 years.

yes but times have changed in what the teams now have to do to be "successes"... havea structure, turning over £xyz.. back then (dark ages?) turning over enough to pay broken time and a rent was fine.. now you must have juniors etc etc etc..

Also the shafting of sheffield damaged the sport in the city (as much as it had a consciousness).. and as with London and other expansion until the late 90s RL was difficult to even try for all those at union clubs so cutting off supply at junior/amateur level etc..

basically it has only really been going after youth for the same length of time as say London, who are only just starting to see the fruits of its labour, and London have had the Super League club + umpteen development officers etc to help them out.. Sheffield have not.

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