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l'angelo mysterioso

THE INDEPENDENT ON SUNDAY

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I wouldn't for one second claim I knew a quarter as much about RL as Dave and it's daft to suggest he doesn't love the game. BUT we all get frustrated with the game sometimes and so does he. He has definitely come across as such lately IMO.

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I wouldn't for one second claim I knew a quarter as much about RL as Dave and it's daft to suggest he doesn't love the game. BUT we all get frustrated with the game sometimes and so does he. He has definitely come across as such lately IMO.

Blaming Dave for the lack of a match report in The Indy, as some are doing in this thread, is just ridiculous, as is more generally sticking the boot into a bloke who lives and breathes the game. I'm not saying you've done that, John, but others have. He was described elsewhere on this forum recently as 'a blight' on the game. To me, as a long time reader of his work, and now as someone in a position to commission work from him for RLW, that's not only plain wrong, it's downright offensive.

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Blaming Dave for the lack of a match report in The Indy, as some are doing in this thread, is just ridiculous, as is more generally sticking the boot into a bloke who lives and breathes the game. I'm not saying you've done that, John, but others have. He was described elsewhere on this forum recently as 'a blight' on the game. To me, as a long time reader of his work, and now as someone in a position to commission work from him for RLW, that's not only plain wrong, it's downright offensive.

Listen to him and his fellow dreary whingers moaning on about everything on the Forty Twenty podcast, read his "rugby league is in crisis" Uncle-Tom-job for the Indy ... I've a great deal of respect for what he's done in the past and I hope his article for RLW is as good as you say. But we don't have many friends in the media so when one uses what little opportunity he gets to write articles Stephen Jones would be proud of fans of the game are well within their rights to cry foul.

I'm well aware the lack of reports is not his fault. The sportsdesks of the Indy and the Standard merged a while back - getting anything in that isn't generic soccer is hard.

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Blaming Dave for the lack of a match report in The Indy, as some are doing in this thread, is just ridiculous, as is more generally sticking the boot into a bloke who lives and breathes the game.

John, calling anyone who cares about the game a 'blight' is very offensive and certainly wouldn't be in my thoughts. However, he has come across as quite negative recently - and he isn't alone in that (Stevo in The Times at the weekend was equally negative, for example) - and that is both disappointing and discouraging as we just don't have enough air/print space allocated to us to 'waste' what we do have on being negative about our sport in my view. We need to be able to comment upon someone's writing, whether we like it or not, think it is negative or whatever, no matter how much they love the game or know the game, surely?

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John, calling anyone who cares about the game a 'blight' is very offensive and certainly wouldn't be in my thoughts. However, he has come across as quite negative recently - and he isn't alone in that (Stevo in The Times at the weekend was equally negative, for example) - and that is both disappointing and discouraging as we just don't have enough air/print space allocated to us to 'waste' what we do have on being negative about our sport in my view. We need to be able to comment upon someone's writing, whether we like it or not, think it is negative or whatever, no matter how much they love the game or know the game, surely?

Given your recent diatribes are you really in a position to comment on negatvity.

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Chris Irvine has become whinger number one in the past year or so. I used to think he bigged up the game quite well, but on SL Extra Time and especially Twitter every other RL tweet seems to be doing the game down.

I remember people used to have a go at Andy Wilson for being a bit negative, but he has been one of the more level headed journos in the past year - maybe because The Guardian prevents him from watching RL most weeks...! Has there been some sort of personality transplant?

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Listen to him and his fellow dreary whingers moaning on about everything on the Forty Twenty podcast, read his "rugby league is in crisis" Uncle-Tom-job for the Indy ... I've a great deal of respect for what he's done in the past and I hope his article for RLW is as good as you say. But we don't have many friends in the media so when one uses what little opportunity he gets to write articles Stephen Jones would be proud of fans of the game are well within their rights to cry foul.

I'm well aware the lack of reports is not his fault. The sportsdesks of the Indy and the Standard merged a while back - getting anything in that isn't generic soccer is hard.

Uncle Tom job?! Get a grip son.

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Uncle Tom job?! Get a grip son.

Dancing for his paymasters.

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Anyone who wants to learn lessons about how to be positive and upbeat on our game only needs to read these forums.

Pot, kettle, black??

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Anyone who wants to learn lessons about how to be positive and upbeat on our game only needs to read these forums.

Pot, kettle, black??

There is a world of difference between someone expressing an opinion on here and an article printed in a national paper though.

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True enough. But we are neither paid for our opinions, nor are our opinions the only ones available in the national press as a ever decreasing window into a sport a lot of the general public know little about.

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delete.

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Amazing point.

Or we could actually have a proper discussion...?

?

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Blind Side johnny had posted a thinly veiled jibe that was edited in the time I was posting a similarly grownup response.

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This is getting confusing.

Who should I be angry at now?

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This is getting confusing.

Who should I be angry at now?

The RFL.

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I wouldn't for one second claim I knew a quarter as much about RL as Dave and it's daft to suggest he doesn't love the game. BUT we all get frustrated with the game sometimes and so does he. He has definitely come across as such lately IMO.

He has an opinion.

Should he suppress it because it doesn't fit in with your's and others?

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1. There WAS a GF Match Report in the Indy on Sunday. I know because I read it.

2. It is also on line, see here

3. We should expect Dave Hadfield and indeed any other journalist (for he is that, not just a reporter) to write as they see, not to act as some sort of cheer leader for Red Hall.

4. Journos often claim to hold up a mirror to society, sport etc. There may be some truth in this - Andy Wilson, Dave Hadfield etc may just be holding up a mirror to this forum so we can see what we look like.

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He has an opinion.

Should he suppress it because it doesn't fit in with your's and others?

And where did I say he should? I said he seems to be on a bit of a downer about RL and using the rare occurrence of an article in his paper for a game in crisis style piece is not best use of resources imo.

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Given your recent diatribes are you really in a position to comment on negatvity.

:lol:

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1. There WAS a GF Match Report in the Indy on Sunday. I know because I read it.

2. It is also on line, see here

3. We should expect Dave Hadfield and indeed any other journalist (for he is that, not just a reporter) to write as they see, not to act as some sort of cheer leader for Red Hall.

4. Journos often claim to hold up a mirror to society, sport etc. There may be some truth in this - Andy Wilson, Dave Hadfield etc may just be holding up a mirror to this forum so we can see what we look like.

clearly not in all editions John, and it's hardly Hadfield's fault. His report in today's Indy was very good.

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I'm sure Dave Hadfield is big enough and ugly enough to take some criticism of his public articles, I'm not sure why others would be unhappy or get offended on his behalf.

Articles like this do not show off any his flair:

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/general/rugby-league/rugby-league-a-game-in-crisis-8135589.html

It is a cheap article listing a load of things that are wrong in the game, which could easily be a post on here.

The problem that we have is that if even RL journalists are writing negative stuff about how the game is struggling, then why would editors give space in their national newspapers to this dying sport? I'd expect the journalists do write many more pieces that are more positive and never see the light of day, but ultimately they can only be judged on what is published. When you listen to these journalists on podcasts and RL programs though I do wonder whether some of them are capable of writing positive features that are not previews or reviews.

People are obviously free to write whatever they want, but as a journalist surely you would expect to have your views challenged?

Finally, to anybody who suggests that he is writing what his paymasters want, well then personally I think that leaves him open to criticism. I would never put my name to a piece of work that I did not believe in and I suspect the RL journos are the same, so I will take them as their views rather than making excuses for articles. If they do decide to write things they don't believe because they were told to, then they have no credibility (I'm not suggesting this happens at all, others are).

FWIW - I don't think DH is anywhere near the worst, and I have read a couple of his books and enjoyed them. He seems a nice bloke and clearly loves the game, but that doesn't mean he is immune from criticism.

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I'm sure Dave Hadfield is big enough and ugly enough to take some criticism of his public articles, I'm not sure why others would be unhappy or get offended on his behalf.

Articles like this do not show off any his flair:

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/general/rugby-league/rugby-league-a-game-in-crisis-8135589.html

It is a cheap article listing a load of things that are wrong in the game, which could easily be a post on here.

The problem that we have is that if even RL journalists are writing negative stuff about how the game is struggling, then why would editors give space in their national newspapers to this dying sport? I'd expect the journalists do write many more pieces that are more positive and never see the light of day, but ultimately they can only be judged on what is published. When you listen to these journalists on podcasts and RL programs though I do wonder whether some of them are capable of writing positive features that are not previews or reviews.

People are obviously free to write whatever they want, but as a journalist surely you would expect to have your views challenged?

Finally, to anybody who suggests that he is writing what his paymasters want, well then personally I think that leaves him open to criticism. I would never put my name to a piece of work that I did not believe in and I suspect the RL journos are the same, so I will take them as their views rather than making excuses for articles. If they do decide to write things they don't believe because they were told to, then they have no credibility (I'm not suggesting this happens at all, others are).

FWIW - I don't think DH is anywhere near the worst, and I have read a couple of his books and enjoyed them. He seems a nice bloke and clearly loves the game, but that doesn't mean he is immune from criticism.

I've read the article and to be honest I can't see anything that isn't accurate or factual. Dave has written many more positive articles than negative ones and he lives and breathes the game. What's wrong in telling it like it is now and again?

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I've read the article and to be honest I can't see anything that isn't accurate or factual. Dave has written many more positive articles than negative ones and he lives and breathes the game. What's wrong in telling it like it is now and again?

Try reading the second sentence. It isn't accurate or factual. Its one of the main points on which his argument is built. The article falls apart before it even gets started.

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