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Rochdale's new coach

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We (Barrow) have done it the correct way. We've bought the likes of Brennan (19) Haggerty (23) Clay (21) Jones (19) Wiper (21) and will have them available every week and their development will benefit us and us solely. Blended in with our own local talent we will be sustainable by ourselves and won't need an SL club to keep us going.

The Saints players available will be the first names on the team sheet, as that will benefit the Saints the most. This will likely lead to Rochdale players getting annoyed as they arnt getting a game and will likely leave. Plus if Rochdale uncovered a good player he would move to Saints for peanuts (unlike Gardner from us to Saints a decade or so ago when we did receive money which benfited the club.) Again this will benefit Saints not Rochdale as I can't imagine Rochdale fans being happy seeing one of their local players moving away from the club to go play for Haven and then too Saints and with Rochdale getting nothing.

The move may help rochdale for the short term future yes I agree, but for helping them sustain as an independant club for decades to come this is a bad move. The move is too benefit Saints short and long term, yes it may reap some rewards for rochdale in the coming seasons, but it won't help them long term.

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you sure?

and they pay talbot's wages too??

As they work for Rochdale, of course.

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im gonna try and sell you some magic beans again in a minute lol

you're being incredibly naive pal

id be shocked if st helens were'nt paying part of their wages

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We (Barrow) have done it the correct way. We've bought the likes of Brennan (19) Haggerty (23) Clay (21) Jones (19) Wiper (21) and will have them available every week and their development will benefit us and us solely. Blended in with our own local talent we will be sustainable by ourselves and won't need an SL club to keep us going.

The Saints players available will be the first names on the team sheet, as that will benefit the Saints the most. This will likely lead to Rochdale players getting annoyed as they arnt getting a game and will likely leave. Plus if Rochdale uncovered a good player he would move to Saints for peanuts (unlike Gardner from us to Saints a decade or so ago when we did receive money which benfited the club.) Again this will benefit Saints not Rochdale as I can't imagine Rochdale fans being happy seeing one of their local players moving away from the club to go play for Haven and then too Saints and with Rochdale getting nothing.

The move may help rochdale for the short term future yes I agree, but for helping them sustain as an independant club for decades to come this is a bad move. The move is too benefit Saints short and long term, yes it may reap some rewards for rochdale in the coming seasons, but it won't help them long term.

If the Saints players are better than the Rochdale players, they will be first on the teamsheet.

If a Rochdale player isn't good enough to get in the team and wants to leave then tough, he is obviously not good enough to play Championship 1.

If Rochdale discover a kid good enough for SuperLeague he will end up in SuperLeague, regardless of this deal.

Rochdale are where they are for a reason. That isn't St Helens' fault. This deal helps both parties, and it is by no means the death-knell that many are trying to make it out to be. That goes for all the other partnerships too.

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im gonna try and sell you some magic beans again in a minute lol

you're being incredibly naive pal

id be shocked if st helens were'nt paying part of their wages

I have to agree Gav Wilson is being deliberately obtuse or he is very naive. Rochdale a Championship 1 club with crowds of around 400 can afford to take a SL club coach as their Head Coach and another coach who has coached at Championship level and they are paying both. Get in to the real world of RL, Mr Wilson.

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I have to agree Gav Wilson is being deliberately obtuse or he is very naive. Rochdale a Championship 1 club with crowds of around 400 can afford to take a SL club coach as their Head Coach and another coach who has coached at Championship level and they are paying both. Get in to the real world of RL, Mr Wilson.

What SuperLeague Head Coach have they appointed? As far as I can see they have hired a young former academy Coach on the recommendation of his former employers.

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If the Saints players are better than the Rochdale players, they will be first on the teamsheet.

If a Rochdale player isn't good enough to get in the team and wants to leave then tough, he is obviously not good enough to play Championship 1.

If Rochdale discover a kid good enough for SuperLeague he will end up in SuperLeague, regardless of this deal.

Rochdale are where they are for a reason. That isn't St Helens' fault. This deal helps both parties, and it is by no means the death-knell that many are trying to make it out to be. That goes for all the other partnerships too.

They will be regardless, this deal is too benefit St Helens youngsters or why else would they be there? The best way to benefit youngsters is too play them.

Yes let's say tough, he leaves and does something else. That means Rochdale are even more reliant on Saints. Thus making Rochdale less sustainable as an independent club.

Yes he will end up in SL, but a six figure cheque going to rochdale would benefit the club much more than him going for peanuts. They could then spend that on youth development and improving facilities and help them grow as a club. In the system they'll have 3 or 4 years of success and will fizzle out slowly as a brand and a club, and it will be sad to see.

If my club had 5 or 6 Saints players playing I'd go watch a local ameteur team and put money into their club instead, at least I know my money won't end up in SL.

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If the Saints players are better than the Rochdale players, they will be first on the teamsheet.

If a Rochdale player isn't good enough to get in the team and wants to leave then tough, he is obviously not good enough to play Championship 1.

If Rochdale discover a kid good enough for SuperLeague he will end up in SuperLeague, regardless of this deal.

Rochdale are where they are for a reason. That isn't St Helens' fault. This deal helps both parties, and it is by no means the death-knell that many are trying to make it out to be. That goes for all the other partnerships too.

It will not be the death knell for Rochdale. Just the opposite, it will stabilize and strengthen them.

It will be the death of them though as an independent club with their own ambitions. They will be beholden to Saints for their players, coaches by the looks of it, and, should they wish to divorce from the agreement with Saints they will not have the infrastructure left to sustain them as an independent team or club. They will be a feeder club with all that this implies, a nursery for Saints juniors. This might be all Rochdale are ever capable of being, a Championship, Championship 1 team and, if so, it could be good for them.

If they have ambitions for the top flight though, those are gone foreever.

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They didn't. He was recommended.

I don't think it was a case of being recommended. It was a case of Saints insisting.

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It will not be the death knell for Rochdale. Just the opposite, it will stabilize and strengthen them.

It will be the death of them though as an independent club with their own ambitions. They will be beholden to Saints for their players, coaches by the looks of it, and, should they wish to divorce from the agreement with Saints they will not have the infrastructure left to sustain them as an independent team or club. They will be a feeder club with all that this implies, a nursery for Saints juniors. This might be all Rochdale are ever capable of being, a Championship, Championship 1 team and, if so, it could be good for them.

If they have ambitions for the top flight though, those are gone foreever.

Thats actually a decent summary, but they won't be a full on feeder club as they can only play up to 5 Saints players at a time, and thats only if they're good enough to get into the team.

Ambitions for SuperLeague can still be there if they ever got themselves a nice sugar daddy, but until that happens this is a very good alternative. The exact same goes for my club York with Hull FC.

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It will not be the death knell for Rochdale. Just the opposite, it will stabilize and strengthen them.

It will be the death of them though as an independent club with their own ambitions. They will be beholden to Saints for their players, coaches by the looks of it, and, should they wish to divorce from the agreement with Saints they will not have the infrastructure left to sustain them as an independent team or club. They will be a feeder club with all that this implies, a nursery for Saints juniors. This might be all Rochdale are ever capable of being, a Championship, Championship 1 team and, if so, it could be good for them.

If they have ambitions for the top flight though, those are gone foreever.

True. But there will be a time when Rochdale will have no purpose anymore, when Saints find an alternative to them which is cheaper and more efficient. This will happen in about 6 years time or so IMO and as you say the infrastructure of Rochdald will become so reliant on Saints that they will just end as a club entirely.

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I don't think it was a case of being recommended. It was a case of Saints insisting.

Is that necessarily a bad thing? He's a young English coach with something to prove. He will be supported by an experienced Championship coach and a World-class setup that he already knows himself very well.

Whats the alternative? Bobbie Goulding?

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What SuperLeague Head Coach have they appointed? As far as I can see they have hired a young former academy Coach on the recommendation of his former employers.

I never said he was a SL Head coach if you read it again. However, have you read the article about this on the Saints website? They are sending not just a coach to be Rochdales head coach but two others to assist him!!!! And you still say Rochdale are paying them?

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True. But there will be a time when Rochdale will have no purpose anymore, when Saints find an alternative to them which is cheaper and more efficient. This will happen in about 6 years time or so IMO and as you say the infrastructure of Rochdald will become so reliant on Saints that they will just end as a club entirely.

Would you mind lending me that crystal ball please? I would love to know tomorrows EuroMillions numbers...

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I never said he was a SL Head coach if you read it again. However, have you read the article about this on the Saints website? They are sending not just a coach to be Rochdales head coach but two others to assist him!!!! And you still say Rochdale are paying them?

St Helens will be paying their employees. Rochdale will be paying their employees.

I'm not sure whats so difficult to understand there...

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yeah but it is...rochdale is going to be used to bring through st helens kids...that makes them a feeder team

Not quite.

The under 19s will be the new under 20s, so the 'kids' will still be coached by Saints at Saints, same as with other Superleague clubs. The age range that these new partnerships refer to is over 19s. The Rochdale partnership is more formal and closer than the Whitehaven one because part of the rules for this new arrangment is that if a Superleague club opts to have more than one partnership (which it can but it doesn't have to) then the additional partnership(s) has/have to be in a non-M62 area, so Saints have really branched out and chosen Whitehaven. That will be more along the lines of the current loan set up only in 2013 five of Saints fringe players will be allowed to play for Whitehaven at any one time rather than four, as was the case in 2012.

The Rochdale partnership from Saints perspective is much more about player development as that is where the players at 19 will likely go. Whitehaven will be more like the kind of arrangement already in place.

Where Rochdale will benefit from Saints' involvement is in the access to the training facilities, if they want it, and to stuff they probably can't afford as a Championship 1 outfit, such as specialists in sports science, etc. However, I do feel that Saints were a bit arrogant in insisting that one of their coaches head up Rochdale rather than Calland, who was Rochdale's first choice of head coach. The guy who is moving in is a good youth coach but he doesn't coach the first team here and never has so how that will all work out is anyone's guess. I do hope that Saints don't try and take things over. That would be embarrassing in the extreme (to me, anyway) as Rochdale has its own history and identity and pride and I would hate to see Saints undermine that.

However, Rochdale being a supporters club means presumably this was passed by the supporters club first?

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True. But there will be a time when Rochdale will have no purpose anymore, when Saints find an alternative to them which is cheaper and more efficient. This will happen in about 6 years time or so IMO and as you say the infrastructure of Rochdald will become so reliant on Saints that they will just end as a club entirely.

Yes, I agree entirely. The same goes for the other feeder teams. It will crystalise the Cumbria situation. Whitehaven will be stronger but Workington will be independent and could ultimately emerge as the top dog up there or , alternatively they might fold and die leaving the whole of West Cumbrian RL as a feeder area for saints.

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Yes, I agree entirely. The same goes for the other feeder teams. It will crystalise the Cumbria situation. Whitehaven will be stronger but Workington will be independent and could ultimately emerge as the top dog up there or , alternatively they might fold and die leaving the whole of West Cumbrian RL as a feeder area for saints.

The arrangement with Whitehaven, so far as I know, is pretty much along the same lines as is happening at present, but five instead of four players available for loan deals if required. Dave Woods won't have to play them if he doesn't want to. He's in charge. Things are a bit different for Rochdale though.

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Would you mind lending me that crystal ball please? I would love to know tomorrows EuroMillions numbers...

So you suppose that using Rochdale and Haven as feeder clubs will be the cheapest and most efficient way to get the youngsters through for decades? Common sense suggests not. Maybe the 6 years was a punt, but their will be a time when Saints find this alternative and scrap Rochdale. In these economic times clubs are being turned into businesses, so Saints will do whatever they can to save money. Rochdale will not be the cheapest way to bring their youngsters through for the long term future.

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So you suppose that using Rochdale and Haven as feeder clubs will be the cheapest and most efficient way to get the youngsters through for decades? Common sense suggests not. Maybe the 6 years was a punt, but their will be a time when Saints find this alternative and scrap Rochdale. In these economic times clubs are being turned into businesses, so Saints will do whatever they can to save money. Rochdale will not be the cheapest way to bring their youngsters through for the long term future.

Its a hundred thousand pounds per year cheaper than the current system...

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Its a hundred thousand pounds per year cheaper than the current system...

I know, and there will likely be a solution which will be even be cheaper, that's when Rochdale have served their purpose.

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I know, and there will likely be a solution which will be even be cheaper, that's when Rochdale have served their purpose.

Right, on that typically cynical note, I'm out.

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I just don't like this deal!

I am not over keen on dual reg, or any other such set up where the plug can be pulled,

The deal will ensure Rochdale have a future and I hope that they make the most of it and build a greater fanbase around the success that a winning team bring, but I'd rather see individual teams and full P&R which will allow teams to dream of one day returning to the glory days(like man city did in the round ball game)

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Is that necessarily a bad thing?

Yes and no. He isn't an inexperienced coach, the bloke who is going to Rochdale from Saints. Talbot has been one of our youth coaches for years. It's the likes of him rather than Mike Rush who are responsible for our young players (Rush set up the system). I feel uncomfortable with the way that Saints insisted otherwise they likely wouldn't have gone ahead with the partnership. That bit just doesn't sit well with me as a fan of rugby league. However, Talbot is experienced and has brought through a lot of our young players and so I can understand Saints wanting their own to be looked after. On top of that, he will take whatever extra he may be able to offer along to Rochdale and they will benefit from that just as Talbot will benefit from whatever Calland and others are able to offer. Like I say, yes and no.

Whats the alternative? Bobbie Goulding?

Lordy. No need to be desperate! lol

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