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Roy Boy

Oh Dear! Salford in bother

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What are you both talking about? What draw bridge? By any measure the game is in better shape that it has been for many years - and I have been a fan since 1957.Sure it could be better,- things can always be better. But Oldham's destiny is in its own hands.

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No, you are absolutely right. I stand corrected. Clearly everything is completely rosy in the garden and the game as a whole is in the best possible shape - what decisions, no decisions here.

Eh?

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as to whether to draw up the bridge once and for all so everyone/club knows where they stand!

Who wants to know?

Is it a small vocal minority? Fans keep turning up regardless, so they don't seem that unhappy.

Listening to views is important, but analysing people's actions is far more important and relevant.

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It looks as though Salford are safe, and will avoid administration. A new ownership has been agreed in principle, with agreement for a new capital injection.

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Who wants to know?

Is it a small vocal minority? Fans keep turning up regardless, so they don't seem that unhappy.

Listening to views is important, but analysing people's actions is far more important and relevant.

Unless of course it's actually a vocal majority whose action is to stay away.....who knows how good the customer base could be.

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Salford RL SHOULD be a great success if properly run and with the right investment. The history of Salford RLFC is great, and the sympathetic new market on its doorstep is enormous. Deakin said whilst he was at the Bulls that a SL franchise in the Salford/Manchester region would be his choice of the market with the biggest potential, and I have to agree. Not sure anyone would make a killing, but they have to be a better proposition than Sale RUFC, Newcastle Falcons etc etc who have haemorrhaged a lot more money than Salford since 1995.

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Salford RL SHOULD be a great success if properly run and with the right investment. The history of Salford RLFC is great, and the sympathetic new market on its doorstep is enormous. Deakin said whilst he was at the Bulls that a SL franchise in the Salford/Manchester region would be his choice of the market with the biggest potential, and I have to agree. Not sure anyone would make a killing, but they have to be a better proposition than Sale RUFC, Newcastle Falcons etc etc who have haemorrhaged a lot more money than Salford since 1995.

I can't argue with that and who would argue with Peter Deakin.

All the new investors need to do is find £2,000,000 a year to run the club and separately fund a team of development officers pay and equipment to get the kids playing RL around the M60 and in about 15 years time they can be up there with Saints and Wigan.

I'm not taking the mickey, as Deakin may also have said underfunding is no funding at all. Especially in this game.

Also if someone has that sort of money to invest will they please go to south wales.........

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Unless of course it's actually a vocal majority whose action is to stay away.....who knows how good the customer base could be.

Yep - but the analysis doesn't support this assertion.

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Yep - but the analysis doesn't support this assertion.

Didn't realise there had been some analysis of any stay aways Dave?

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Didn't realise there had been some analysis of any stay aways Dave?

I meant to use the word 'evidence' rather than analysis tbh - I base this on the fact that the crowds have not seen a large drop which would be associated with fans walking away from the game and staying away.

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I meant to use the word 'evidence' rather than analysis tbh - I base this on the fact that the crowds have not seen a large drop which would be associated with fans walking away from the game and staying away.

I personally know many supporters that have drifted away from the game. I'm sure there are also many new supporters that may have been attracted to the game......does it mean we couldn't have both and who knows what the growth could be?

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I personally know many supporters that have drifted away from the game. I'm sure there are also many new supporters that may have been attracted to the game......does it mean we couldn't have both and who knows what the growth could be?

Yep, I agree with you, however at the point P&R was abandoned, without trawling the stats which have been discussed at length here time and again, I don't believe there was a steep drop which would show people walking away.

Of course you are right that new fans could have emerged, but why would they have suddenly emerged at this point? If anything, we know that times are getting harder and there will be a natural drop of fans who just can't afford or justify the cost of RL.

There is also the question that if some fans left at the point of the change, yet enough joined to net this off, then based on the fact that the clubs voted for this wasn't it the right thing to do?

The above is to play devils advocate, I have already said I am somewhere in between on the options, but I would be interested to know which clubs still genuinely want P&R, as I think that is one of the most important elements of this debate.

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Unless of course it's actually a vocal majority whose action is to stay away.....who knows how good the customer base could be.

People started staying away from Oldham many many many years ago.

year.......average

1982.........2395

1983.........3721

1984.........4138

1985.........4562

1986.........4333

1987.........3915

1988.........3790 ( div 2)

1989.........5759

1990.........4401

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People started staying away from Oldham many many many years ago.

year.......average

1982.........2395

1983.........3721

1984.........4138

1985.........4562

1986.........4333

1987.........3915

1988.........3790 ( div 2)

1989.........5759

1990.........4401

About 10 times more than now!

Before Super League and in a stadium that was falling apart.

Fact is, it could be reasonably argued, that we are still producing the goods low down the pyramid for the benfit of others.

If a rich RL mad oil sheihk were to look at where to put his money, then the potential of East Manchester, ie Oldham, would come close to the top.

However, I am one of those who think the Championship should look to going it alone.

When we were in Super League, I was dissapointed with the product.

I live for the day we are back in CC1 playing the likes of Leigh, Fax, Featherstone et al

I believe, yes I expect to get some backlash, but I believe that in CC1 we can get crowds of 4-5,000 again.

About time we had a bit of Roughyedmania. (Apologies to the cougars)

A bit of concrete and fencing can get the ground up to that capacity.

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I would love to see Oldham at the best level for them. I am a broken record but a 2 tier 20 team SL is much the best way to have the best of all possible worlds, with great clubs like Fax and Oldham being in tier 2 until such time as they are strong enough to move up. Let's face it we have an extra division within SL as it is. If we had a 2m cap top tier and a 1m cap second tier, say, with Sky money spread proportionately, we could take advantage of all outer clubs. Everyone plays everyone in the same tier twice, and the other tier once. Wouldn't it be kinder and fairer to the likes of Cas etc, while allowing the full cappers to grow?

On Salford, I am hugely encouraged by Martyn's post.

I don't agree with Parksider's estimate of the level of investment. But really no one knows what losses would need to be endurd and for how long, as we have never had a cashed up professional set up running Salford.

Potentially happy days.

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Salford RL SHOULD be a great success if properly run and with the right investment. The history of Salford RLFC is great, and the sympathetic new market on its doorstep is enormous. Deakin said whilst he was at the Bulls that a SL franchise in the Salford/Manchester region would be his choice of the market with the biggest potential, and I have to agree. Not sure anyone would make a killing, but they have to be a better proposition than Sale RUFC, Newcastle Falcons etc etc who have haemorrhaged a lot more money than Salford since 1995.

Bang on. Deacs knew his onions.

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Can the Oldham people please start their own thread?

I want to know what is happeneing at Salford.

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Salford is not a rugby area and never has been really. It doesnt have a strong amateur base it can use to bring in young players, crowds or work to help develop the club and game in the area. Its crowds are small and there never really has been much interest shown in Salford by locals for decades. Salford are just drifting through SL fighting to stay alive-much like a few others sadly. It has had chances to change itself, but has done very badly in promoting itself. I do feel the new Stadium should have been the springboard for Salford to be a top 8 side if not a top 6 one. Becoming a bigger and better club takes a few years, but it needs something to build off. It doesnt just happen. Salford wasted the chance.The New Stadium in a decent area, right next to the motorway and the chance to be "THE" Rugby club of either code in the Manchester area. Instead they have allowed Sale in and for me just simply waited and hoped things would happen. Even if a new consortium take over, its going to take many years to be a decent well run club. Salford has a negative vibe about it and to get rid of that reputation, will not be easy and no doubt will require money, time and patience. Its OK a new consortium coming in, but they have to get Salford to be something different and that is not just going to happen overnight. I dont feel much will change with Salford unless they have somebody who is willing to spend alot of money. A new owner will still have to initially work with small crowds, a club losing money and a negative vibe. And the problems now will be the same for the next few years. Unless the Consortium/Investors are willing to throw hundred of thousands of pounds at Salford, the financial millstone will bring them down once again.

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Sadly even in their heyday of the early 70's when a team of internationals led by David Watkins led the way to Wembley and other finals ,the people of Salford still didn't turn up and 7,000 was an average gate.

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I don't agree with Parksider's estimate of the level of investment. But really no one knows what losses would need to be endurd and for how long............

Why don't they?

Every season clubs with far bigger crowds and far more juniors making the grade announce big losses. It's quite easy to estimate that by the time Salford are turning out stars (15 years) and getting 10K crowds (10 years?) they'll have had to have "millions and millions of investment"

Agree with that??

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Sadly even in their heyday of the early 70's when a team of internationals led by David Watkins led the way to Wembley and other finals ,the people of Salford still didn't turn up and 7,000 was an average gate.

An official average gate of 7k was good in the 70s. Just out of interest, what was Wires average gate in the Wembley winning year of 74?

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I would love to see Oldham at the best level for them. I am a broken record but a 2 tier 20 team SL is much the best way to have the best of all possible worlds, with great clubs like Fax and Oldham being in tier 2 until such time as they are strong enough to move up. Let's face it we have an extra division within SL as it is. If we had a 2m cap top tier and a 1m cap second tier, say, with Sky money spread proportionately, we could take advantage of all outer clubs. Everyone plays everyone in the same tier twice, and the other tier once. Wouldn't it be kinder and fairer to the likes of Cas etc, while allowing the full cappers to grow?

On Salford, I am hugely encouraged by Martyn's post.

I don't agree with Parksider's estimate of the level of investment. But really no one knows what losses would need to be endurd and for how long, as we have never had a cashed up professional set up running Salford.

Potentially happy days.

Less of a broken record, more an auto-repeat of a one track playlist.

You've convinced me about a 2 tier SL though, although at the moment I would go for 8 in each or there would be some horrible tonkings and the money would be very thin.

To be honest, a 2 or 3 tier championship could work pretty well like this as well.

Back on topic, though, we should definitely look to grow our latent support in neighbouring sympathetic markets, and Manchester is the biggest of the lot. Doesn't have to mean plonking new clubs all over the place, but the game could easily get significant following in other places like Liverpool and Sheffield of course, although the Eagles are doing their best with not a lot of RFL help of course.

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Why don't they?

Every season clubs with far bigger crowds and far more juniors making the grade announce big losses. It's quite easy to estimate that by the time Salford are turning out stars (15 years) and getting 10K crowds (10 years?) they'll have had to have "millions and millions of investment"

Agree with that??

It's not a real estimate though is it? Whatever figures you or I come up with would be driven by so many assumptions as to be worthless. I agree it would cost millions in investment, neither of us knows how many millions.

I read that they could break even on 8k crowds on their own, but that their position has since improved because Sale are sharing he rent. If the break even figure drops to 7k, then they are 1500 people down per game. 14 games, 21k people... I suspect that's a significant underestimate, but even so it's hardly 2m a year is it?

Agree with that???

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1.It's not a real estimate though is it? Whatever figures you or I come up with would be driven by so many assumptions as to be worthless. I agree it would cost millions in investment, neither of us knows how many millions.

2. I read that they could break even on 8k crowds on their own, but that their position has since improved because Sale are sharing he rent. If the break even figure drops to 7k, then they are 1500 people down per game. 14 games, 21k people... I suspect that's a significant underestimate. Agree with that???

1. There you go we actually agreed. We both say it will cost millions we neither said we knew exactly, and the problem is if the investor doesn't spend enough millions they may end up like Wilko 30 years of getting nowhere,

2. No I don't agree with that as you yourself say it's a significant under estimate.

Glad we're agreed now :)

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