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Roy Boy

Oh Dear! Salford in bother

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1. Manchester is big enough for more than one RL team.

2. How will it be paid for ? As things stand at present Oldham will have to manage on their own as have Featrherstone, Leigh, Halifax and Keighley and all the other CC clubs. In the future, Sky might re discover their appetite for Cc rugby and even pay for it.

3. Finally there just might be a sugar daddy with a love of Oldham there.

4. The greed and ring fenced mentality of SL will see to that. Someday, someone with vision rather than a blinkered adherent of SL will be in power and act for thr greater good of the game. I can but dream.

1. RL has declined heavily in Manchester and it's surrounds, only Superleague retains an attraction that can turn this round.

The one SL club struggles yet you say two successful clubs are possible. Your dreaming.

2. SKY never had an appetite for CC rugby your dreaming.

3.there are very few Sugar daddies happily prepared to pump in millions year on year in fact there's only really one who shows no sign of stopping. Your dreaming.

4. Thanks for admitting your dreaming.

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1. RL has declined heavily in Manchester and it's surrounds, only Superleague retains an attraction that can turn this round.

The one SL club struggles yet you say two successful clubs are possible. Your dreaming.

2. SKY never had an appetite for CC rugby your dreaming.

3.there are very few Sugar daddies happily prepared to pump in millions year on year in fact there's only really one who shows no sign of stopping. Your dreaming.

4. Thanks for admitting your dreaming.

Parky you are right - merge all 'greater manchester' clubs Salford, Oldham, Rochdale, Leigh, Swinton and..........Wigan!!!!

Alternatively, as you suggest only one SL club should be allowed.......I take it you think we should drop Wigan then?

Of course the real answer is for every CC club to refuse point blank in the licensing process - it's a breakaway without losing the connection to the RFL and the central funding crumbs they currently get. How long could licensing survive as an even bigger laughing stock than it already is?

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Parky you are right - merge all 'greater manchester' clubs Salford, Oldham, Rochdale, Leigh, Swinton and..........Wigan!!!!

The real answer is for every CC club to refuse point blank in the licensing process - it's a breakaway without losing the connection to the RFL and the central funding crumbs they currently get. How long could licensing survive as a n even bigger laughing stock than it already is?

This "why not merge everyone into one club and let it play itself" answer is just silly isn't it.

Besides who said anything about merging in the here and now.

What you and all the others on this track forget is that Superleague has brought tens of thousands more fans into the game, Superleague has brought tens of millions of TV money into the game, and it's profile as an impressive professional Rugby League Code has seen people take to Rugby League nationwide.

What was a laughing stock was the 1995 regional oddity version of Rugby nobody outside the north much bothered with.

As for your master plan you miss the fact that ten championship clubs are tied in with SL now and several more Championship clubs have no interest in joining SL.

If five or six clubs outside SL want to boycott the licensing process then the RFL/SLE will rejoice. It will make it so easy for the 12 or 14 chosen clubs to just be waved through..........

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This "why not merge everyone into one club and let it play itself" answer is just silly isn't it.

Besides who said anything about merging in the here and now.

What you and all the others on this track forget is that Superleague has brought tens of thousands more fans into the game, Superleague has brought tens of millions of TV money into the game, and it's profile as an impressive professional Rugby League Code has seen people take to Rugby League nationwide.

What was a laughing stock was the 1995 regional oddity version of Rugby nobody outside the north much bothered with.

As for your master plan you miss the fact that ten championship clubs are tied in with SL now and several more Championship clubs have no interest in joining SL.

If five or six clubs outside SL want to boycott the licensing process then the RFL/SLE will rejoice. It will make it so easy for the 12 or 14 chosen clubs to just be waved through..........

I love the fact that you think the game isn't a laughing stock now but was in 1995 - you are priceless and full value for entertainment!!

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I love the fact that you think the game isn't a laughing stock now but was in 1995 - you are priceless and full value for entertainment!!

Set out for me how it's a laughing stock, go on explain your logic and back it up.

Then I'll set out what Superleague has done for the game....

Then people can decide.

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Set out for me how it's a laughing stock, go on explain your logic and back it up.

Then I'll set out what Superleague has done for the game....

Then people can decide.

prople have already decided long ago parky and have become more and more entrenched as the years have advanced.

Rugby League has never been a laughing stock- apart from the later years of Eddie Wareing's career and the worst eccesses of the BBC-remember K9?

'Laughing stock' and all the other dreary labels have no real purpose other than to make people feel secure about their views, without having to evaluate them or inform them

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prople have already decided long ago parky and have become more and more entrenched as the years have advanced.

Rugby League has never been a laughing stock- apart from the later years of Eddie Wareing's career and the worst eccesses of the BBC-remember K9?

'Laughing stock' and all the other dreary labels have no real purpose other than to make people feel secure about their views, without having to evaluate them or inform them

Thank you for that.

There's nothing "laughable" about RL going fully professional at top level.

There's nothing "laughable" about the massive rise in attendances at top level and attendances staying firm in the second tier.

There's nothing "laughable" at the impressive terrestrial coverage of the RLCC on BBC

There's nothing "laughable" at a £90M SKY contract

There's nothing "laughable" when the BBC report SL results on national terrestrial sports new bulletins

There's nothing "laughable" about the way the game has spread all over the country and into Wales

There's nothing "laughable" about putting a massive attendance into Old trafford every year

Thought I'd stop at lucky seven......

What would be laughable is sharing the SKY money 30 odd ways and watching the exodus of players, fans, and rich sponsors walk away from the game as it crumbles back to what would have happened had "Sooper dooper league" not been created.

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Set out for me how it's a laughing stock, go on explain your logic and back it up.

Then I'll set out what Superleague has done for the game....

Then people can decide.

1. I didn't say it was a laughing stock.

2. I have no interest in Super League - for me it holds no relevance or interest

3. I think you'll find people can do that all on their own

You are brilliant Parky!!

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You are brilliant Parky!!

Clearly you don't like anyone who supports superleague as your childishly trying to poke fun at me. People who go round saying they "don't care" about superleague often do. they care they are not in it. If you have no interest at all in Superleague then why post about it?

As for me I do care that people are disenfranchised by Superleague, at least I used to until the self same people I felt sorry for started to take the P out of me because I can justify it's existence and importance.

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Being served a winding up order over a disputed bill is hardly going into administration, there is no comparison to be made with the Bulls...

... yet.

You can't serve a winding up order if a bill is disputed.

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You can't serve a winding up order if a bill is disputed.

they've asked for one, not served one.

Thank you for that.

There's nothing "laughable" about RL going fully professional at top level.

There's nothing "laughable" about the massive rise in attendances at top level and attendances staying firm in the second tier.

There's nothing "laughable" at the impressive terrestrial coverage of the RLCC on BBC

There's nothing "laughable" at a £90M SKY contract

There's nothing "laughable" when the BBC report SL results on national terrestrial sports new bulletins

There's nothing "laughable" about the way the game has spread all over the country and into Wales

There's nothing "laughable" about putting a massive attendance into Old trafford every year

Thought I'd stop at lucky seven......

What would be laughable is sharing the SKY money 30 odd ways and watching the exodus of players, fans, and rich sponsors walk away from the game as it crumbles back to what would have happened had "Sooper dooper league" not been created.

I would like very much for professional Rugby League to have movement between it's competitons right to the top. But this isn't feasible.

Super League isn't a 'division' it's a separate competition.

There is not enough strength in the competitions below to make a promoted team noot just competitive, not just to contribute meaningfully, not to grow within the competition, but to even be better than the team they replace.

The fact that this was almost entirely the case before SL, was one of the causes of the mess the sport was in-but not the only one.

People cite 'fairness' and 'morality' for the same reasons that they use the term 'laughing stock',' joke', 'farce', 'shafted', 'sold down the river', 'not having a level playing field', and the deeply puerile 'super duper pooper scooper' and all the rest. They are verbal barricades to hide behind.

The same people who go on about 'fairness' and 'morality' seem happy to have a company that specialises in tax avoidence for the rich as a major benefactor.

But anyway how 'unfair' and/or 'immoral' is it to put into place a system which even if it is mistaken, that is designed put in place thre things you mention, plus despite setbacks actually sin of sins expands the sport.

The system has compelled clubs outside SL to become more professional in the way they are run, to contribute to their communities(instead of the other way round).

Clubs in SL have had and have financial problems. Since when was SL supposed to make anyone immune from these issues? You can't legislate for incompetence, but you can put in conditions that put limits on the damage that clubs afflict on themselves. Presumably oyther businesses don't have these problems-oops they do don't they?

On the other hand sod it, let's go back to how things were eh? let's get it over with let the self dserving small minded whingers have their day.

knurr and spell anyone?

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In the end the market will decide these, things. I can see some positives in both arguements and maybe part of the problem is with one club being promoted at the expense of another.

I don't think Parky is suggesting that Salford are more deserving than Oldham, just in his opinion RL can only support 1 club in Manchester at the moment. Whether that be Oldham or Salford, is probably more down to their current circumstances than any preferance for one or the other.

I do think there are issues through out RL, but then there always has been. Sadly the solutions to these issues are not going to be happening anytime soon, when even the richest clubs in RL are scrambling around for cash where ever they can find it, even if that means from other SL clubs by reducing the top flight in numbers.

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In the end the market will decide these, things. I can see some positives in both arguements and maybe part of the problem is with one club being promoted at the expense of another.

I don't think Parky is suggesting that Salford are more deserving than Oldham, just in his opinion RL can only support 1 club in Manchester at the moment. Whether that be Oldham or Salford, is probably more down to their current circumstances than any preferance for one or the other.

I'm certainly not suggesting any club is more deserving than another you are right.

I argue completely free of any club bias having now got over Hunslet's rejection from Superleague. It was a trying time, it took me all of 10 minutes to get over it.

I don't care who merges, who stands alone, or who creates a new club etc etc, sat on the sidelines it's easy to just look at the simple realities. If Rugby League needs to accept a £90M contract from SKY for an Elite professional league to prevent the game from free fall then it has to accept it, and the league has to be elite and it has to be professional.

It has to pitch it's business model at a level to keep it's top players too. If that means 12 clubs turning over £5M each in time then that's the game saved. If that means small clubs on less than £1M turnover can't get in then what has that got to do with anything except whats good for the personal agenda of a small band of people who'll argue blacks white because the status quo doesn't suit them. It may suit Rugby League the game, but there we go........

As for "Manchester/Salford" in 1995 the four clubs attracted nearly 9,500 people to semi pro RL in the area, but made no money doing it, just losses and decline. 10,000 alone attended the last Salford game at the Willows which gave us a clue what could be built, but there we go........

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People cite 'fairness' and 'morality'

I particularly liked a thread on conferences that were eagerly championed. Oddly enough 20 clubs shared the money, leaving most to go bust unable to compete, but that was largely ignored, as certain clubs came within the 20.

Then someone pointed out "what about the other 12 clubs"..............

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Clearly you don't like anyone who supports superleague as your childishly trying to poke fun at me. People who go round saying they "don't care" about superleague often do. they care they are not in it. If you have no interest at all in Superleague then why post about it?

As for me I do care that people are disenfranchised by Superleague, at least I used to until the self same people I felt sorry for started to take the P out of me because I can justify it's existence and importance.

I'm sorry Parky - didn't have you down as such a caring, sensitive type!

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The Revenue now (alledgedly) after owed tax of £150k. Clearly nothing to see here....

let's play top trumps

sorry for it being from wikipedia

After finishing 5th again, in November 2002, Featherstone went into administration, owing the Inland Revenue £97,000 and with total debts of £403,000

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The Revenue now (alledgedly) after owed tax of £150k. Clearly nothing to see here....

Not sure about allegedly Mr. Sidestep. £150K in PAYE, and the club are "unable to fend HMRC off".

They paid Greggson's £15K, these are the consultants who were "engaged to try to find potential new owners".

Not sure Greggson managed it apparently, anyway the local Mayor reckons he may have a buyer, but administration looms Friday. Just before Friday there's the salaries to pay and "the club lacks the funds to make the payments on the due dates"

Peel Holdings don't want to know and the whole board of Salford are happy to sell their shares at a "nominal sum".

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Not sure about allegedly Mr. Sidestep. £150K in PAYE, and the club are "unable to fend HMRC off".

They paid Greggson's £15K, these are the consultants who were "engaged to try to find potential new owners".

Not sure Greggson managed it apparently, anyway the local Mayor reckons he may have a buyer, but administration looms Friday. Just before Friday there's the salaries to pay and "the club lacks the funds to make the payments on the due dates"

Peel Holdings don't want to know and the whole board of Salford are happy to sell their shares at a "nominal sum".

Sounds like, after all your bluster, hero worship of Sl, rejection of any non Salford RL club in Manchester and trumpeting the unparalled success and profitabilty of SL, that Oldham might inherit the earth there as the only club left standing. Maybe they can play the occasional road game in Salford to remind them what they lost.

I told you SL was in danger of several clubs getting into trouble if economies were not made. Maybe 200 fans will now make the trip in the opposite direction to supportManchestr s team.

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People can do what they want. It's much better for the game that Salford market to Oldham and all of the two city's and satellites. If they can't get better than 6,000 how are oldham supposed to do it?

Let the past go it's the past.

It looks like they might have to see what they can do if we are to preserve senior RL in Manchester.

Salford might wish they were still in the past with David Watkins and co pulling huge crowds to the Willows and being a top team.

I apologise for gloating. I hope Salford survive this,the game can t afford to lose Salford, especially now they have the stadium. On the other hand Oldham also have a right to exist and thrive, especially in their own area. I wish only good things for both teams.

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1. RL has declined heavily in Manchester and it's surrounds, only Superleague retains an attraction that can turn this round.

The one SL club struggles yet you say two successful clubs are possible. Your dreaming.

2. SKY never had an appetite for CC rugby your dreaming.

3.there are very few Sugar daddies happily prepared to pump in millions year on year in fact there's only really one who shows no sign of stopping. Your dreaming.

4. Thanks for admitting your dreaming.

1.And you would revive the game in Manchester by killing off a club in a completely different part of the megopolis, hoping and dare I say DREAMING that substantial portions of the population would flock to watch Salford.And you say I m dreaming.

2.I guess I must have been dreaming when Sky televised a whole couple of seasons of CC rugby in recent years, including the CC grand finals. Maybe they will revisit that policy. You never know.

3. Thanks for cutting the rest of my point and concentrating on the very last suggestion I posted re CC financing. Oldham did have a sponsor but he left after a dispute. This is a CC1 team. They do not need multi millions. They are not paying unsustainable SL wages.

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I On the other hand Oldham also have a right to exist and thrive, especially in their own area.

I

Sure they have. Pity they have not exercised that right.

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1.And you would revive the game in Manchester by killing off a club in a completely different part of the megopolis,

They have killed themselves off. They have wasted their heritage until there is no way back. Whilst it was doing that, the world turned. Living patterns changed, working patterns changed, transport patterns changed, sporting and recreation patterns changed, people grew old and changed. this is 2012 not 1952.

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They have killed themselves off. They have wasted their heritage until there is no way back. Whilst it was doing that, the world turned. Living patterns changed, working patterns changed, transport patterns changed, sporting and recreation patterns changed, people grew old and changed. this is 2012 not 1952.

I agree that they have failed spectacularly. They are a seriously critical case but Huddersfield, Bradford Northern and Hull KR have managed redemption from some pretty serious predicaments.

They may well expire completely but I do not think that this will transalate into huge support for Salford from the Oldham area, transport systems or not. Given that Oldham s average crowd is around 600, if the whole six hundred moved to support Salford, which i don t think they would, it would still not help Salford too much and the whole town of Oldham would be lost to RL. Far better , in my opinion, if Oldham could rise from the ashes and tap, once again, into the latent reservoir of spectators on the area.

I am not advocating SL for Oldham,just a sucessful team at CC level and promotion from CC1. If that is achieved and some sort of improvement of the ground is made, then further plans can be formjulated. After all, it is no so long ago that they were not even based in Oldham,so they are not at complete rock bottom.

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1.And you would revive the game in Manchester by killing off a club in a completely different part of the megopolis, hoping and dare I say DREAMING that substantial portions of the population would flock to watch Salford.And you say I'm dreaming.

I never EVER suggested killing Oldham off. How can we have a debate when you make "killer" points like this??

You say "substantial parts of the Oldham population" won't go to Salford. I never EVER said they would I suggested if you could get a couple of hundred in time, and a couple of hundred from all the areas there'd be a tremendous crowd in Barton.

Salford don't attract enough fans, RL needs to try to capture the Manchester market as well as Salford for a succesful SL team

Championship rugby doesn't attract many fans so Oldham can't do it, even if they won the CC grand final, and aren't doing it big style.

Superleague is the attraction nowadays something you have to grasp as it's not 1952.

The vehicle for getting fans in that massive area and onto seats has to be Superleague.

If nobody wants to try to do that at Salford they'll sink into the Championship and probably morph into another Swinton Oldham or Rochdale.

You also conveniently ignore the fact that Oldham people don't all sit at home waiting for the day Athletic or Rughyeds one day rise again, which is your constant "re-incarnation" theme.

Oldham people who want to go watch a top Rugby match go watch Wigan or Sale and doubtless many watch United or City.

It's NOT 1952 and people do travel outside their back yard.

Where do you think Rhinos fans come from

Where do you think Bulls fans come from

Where do you think Cas fans come from.

Many travel further than the distance between Oldham and Barton on less direct roads.

Why Salford? because if you haven't noticed they have an excellent stadium just by the M60 - miss that did you?

As for your Oldham dreams, they don't have a decent stadium,

You have to look at the game today, who comes from where and how to support teams. Never again will 5000 fans walk out of their terraced home in Oldham down to the local club. It's not like that anymore, as John M says.

Not even at Hunslet, they travel from miles to come and watch. I'm at the "other side of the city" I have friends in Wakefield and Halifax who come and watch Hunslet. I'll make you a longer liist, not one of them will be from Hunslet.

How will Sale get thousands into Barton? Run 100 coaches up from Sale? No they'll come from all over.....

So no apologies for cutting your posts, you need to concentrate on the important debates, and like it or not the reality today is Rugby League needs to get a profitable market out of the Salford/Manchester area and to do that it needs to provide an attractive product in a comfortable stadium.

Doesn't it??

Discuss.

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