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foozler

Oldham

403 posts in this topic

1. I take your point, as a principle it's sound. As an idea in practice I cannot comment until you tell me.....

a. How many clubs in this top division??

b. How would the current level of SKY funding be shared across this number of clubs??

c. How would you enforce lower spending on players - to what level may you reduce cap??

d. Is this with P & R what's your system??

I only want to know so I can comment respectfully on it.

2. Then I'll give you my alternative which I have set out clearly twice before but will afford you one last time.

a)The maths and budgets would have to be worked out by the participants. Until that is done there is no way to tell how many clubs it would support. I would prefer to keep the size of SL at 14 at least but the bean counters could work out the nuts and bolts of the ecomonics of it.

B) That could also be discussed. I would think equal distribution to each club but maybe a system whereby the more needy clubs could get extra could be worked out but don't hold yopur breath on that. As Gordon Gekko said "Greed is good".

c) The tail does not wag the dog. You would tell the players what the deal was, what you are proposing to pay them, explaining the economic realities the game finds itself in and they could take it or leave it. Some would leave it but most would have no other option.

d) You know my preference is for some sort of movement between divisions and I would support p and r but we don't have it now so it would not be mandatory that a semi pro league would have it.

My proposal is just the germ of an idea forced on the game by circumstances. The nuts and bolts of it's execution woukld be up to the various participating parties.

2. I probably will recall your solution when I see it but you are so prolific a poster on here that I cannot specifically recall it. If it's to do with mergers and mega clubs and contraction for the greater good of a small elite, then , yes, I remember the gist of your argument.

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how do you think player development will be affected by the drop in wages(how big a drop by the way?): fewer star players to emulate, a much less worthwhile career path, spells a contraction in the professional game, and an inability to hold on to its best players. Young players will take up union instead of league and will learn union ways of playing younger. The north of England has a massive long standing network of union clubs. How do Keighley Albion's facilities compare with Keighley RUFC's facilities at Uttley for instance? And keighlye is a Rugby League town and all.

The broadcasters want quality content and wont be interested with a declining product ie a poor return for their investment.

Good points but the alternative is to have many top tier clubs go belly up. Where would that leave us? We have to hope that children take up the game because they like it not specifically with a view to cash rewards.RU is obtuse and boring compared to RL. I know,I have played both. RU has great cash and facilities advantages over RL but that is so now. What would change in that relationship if we went semi pro.

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Good points but the alternative is to have many top tier clubs go belly up. Where would that leave us? We have to hope that children take up the game because they like it not specifically with a view to cash rewards.RU is obtuse and boring compared to RL. I know,I have played both. RU has great cash and facilities advantages over RL but that is so now. What would change in that relationship if we went semi pro.

Whether you find union obtuse and boring is irrelevant. The fact is that it is a lot more popular, wealthy, widespread than rugby league can dream of. Just because you don't like it, doesn't means that millions of others shouldn't or indeed don't.

Children take up games for all sorts of reasons;

They've tried it and like it

They've seen it a d want to have a go

Their parents encourage them to for whatever reason

They want to emulate their heroes

For instance

Whether people take up sport to a higher level than that depends upon them being good enough and what the prospects are.

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Whether you find union obtuse and boring is irrelevant. The fact is that it is a lot more popular, wealthy, widespread than rugby league can dream of. Just because you don't like it, doesn't means that millions of others shouldn't or indeed don't.

Before 1996 people took up RU because it was the only game available to them. I guess most people end up liking what they know. If our game is that great we need as many kids to get the chance to choose. They get that choice more and more in the services, in the universities, wherever amateur clubs spring up and wherever schools give a choice.

Hence it burns me up when the young Rhinos supporting kids in Horsforth are made to play Union and given no chance of league. The after school serious team plays union yet they could have a go at League in the inter form competition.

Still I suppose there are schools in the south playing league who are hacking off their local union club whom used to get their players from there!!!

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The maths and budgets would have to be worked out by the participants. Until that is done there is no way to tell how many clubs it would support, but the bean counters could work out the nuts and bolts of the ecomonics of it. I would think equal distribution to each my preference is for some sort of movement between divisions and I would support p and r………………..

OK….

16 team Superleague current 14 clubs add Featherstone and Sheffield.

Clubs to receive approx £1.1M SKY subsidy a year. Down from £1.3M.

I estimate about 8 clubs can pay the approx £1.6M cap.

But Bradford, and Wakey struggle to pay it now, and Salford, HKR, Castleford, Featherstone and Sheffield would certainly struggle. I think HKR may be budgeting for £1.1M wages next year.

If the richer clubs had their SKY money cut they may still be able to go full cap. HKR’s £200K cut would have to come off their player budget, as would the cut to other poorer clubs. Sheffield and Featherstone may not even quite manage £1M in wages.

To avoid a gulf in playing standards the cap could come down. I assume wage bill is very roughly £19M or so now so to cut losses bring it right down to £1.0M so 16 clubs spend £16M in wages – a saving.

Not only a saving but an even competition top to bottom. Better chance for Leigh & Halifax to survive if promoted.

Is this a good idea??

I’m hard pressed to criticise it :O:ohmy::O:ohmy::O:ohmy:

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I'm glad I was sitting down when I read that.

Surprised were you.

I'm not surprised at all.

The penny had to finally drop through the clouds of fantasy and dreamland you surrounded yourself with.

Shame it took 274 meters of thread and 516 posts exchanged between us before you finally clicked that money doesn't grow on trees, RL has a limited appeal, RL has limited resources and you can't please all of the fans and clubs all of the time, and by gawd we need SKY.

Still you now agree on the financial situation, you now agree how limited the games ability to grow is.

You even suggested 14 teams in SL - it was me who expanded that to 16 it was me who was the inclusive one.

But above all you may now have realised through our marathon that I'm not the Superleague/rich man loving Championship/P&R hating devil you dreamed me up to be, and who you fantasiesed the good lord put you on this board to pursue and slay with your trusty keyboard of truth and justice.

This is post #382 I may be referring you to it in future.....

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Surprised were you.

I'm not surprised at all.

The penny had to finally drop through the clouds of fantasy and dreamland you surrounded yourself with.

Shame it took 274 meters of thread and 516 posts exchanged between us before you finally clicked that money doesn't grow on trees, RL has a limited appeal, RL has limited resources and you can't please all of the fans and clubs all of the time, and by gawd we need SKY.

Still you now agree on the financial situation, you now agree how limited the games ability to grow is.

You even suggested 14 teams in SL - it was me who expanded that to 16 it was me who was the inclusive one.

But above all you may now have realised through our marathon that I'm not the Superleague/rich man loving Championship/P&R hating devil you dreamed me up to be, and who you fantasiesed the good lord put you on this board to pursue and slay with your trusty keyboard of truth and justice.

This is post #382 I may be referring you to it in future.....

Firstly, I never said money wasn't short or the game could function without it. Secondly, I certainly never said we didn't need Sky money. I have posted repeatedly that the Sky money, in my opinion saved the game.

That whole post by me was a suggestion on how we might have to operate in future because the money was NOT sufficient to make a fully pro SL workable, so I do know we need money. It was you who took so long to realise the financial unreality of continuing to operate a fully pro super league without the money to do so.

None of the post by you addresses the need for there to be an opportunity for lower tier teams to be able to join the party or for the failing SL teams to leave it. P and R.

I have also repeatedly posted on the need to attempt to get extra financing, particularly from TV in order to grow the game, either back to a sustainable full time pro league or maybe even to expand. Conferences, SL 1 and 2, whatever.

It has always been difficult to grow the game. In fact from the early 1900's to the late 40's and early 50's when we got Workington, Whitehaven, Doncaster and Blackpool, we didn't grow domestically at all.

I think the abandonment of the ban on playing RL by RU was a watershed moment, however, and has directly led to the biggest growth of the game since 1896. The schools, universities, armed forces, amateur leagues all over the country and even in the rest of the UK and Ireland and internationally, and now semi pro expansion into London, the home counties, the Gloucester area and soon the midlands have all exploded since that seminal moment in Rugby history..

To further grow we need more money. Some will be raised locally but more than ever we need to get a better TV contract.

The World Cup next year presents a huge opportunity for the game to showcase itself in a hugely positive light which, with a bit of luck, will materialise into more money being funnelled into RL.

As regards your seeing the light on the merits of teams outside the pale of SL, I remain to be convinced. I will await your future posts before I admit to the truth of your claims.

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None of the post by you addresses the need for there to be an opportunity for lower tier teams to be able to join the party or for the failing SL teams to leave it. P and R.

Yes it does - read it please......

"Not only a saving but an even competition top to bottom. Better chance for Leigh & Halifax to survive if promoted"

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Sean Long has just tweeted that a Salford/Oldham partnership is imminent...

dynamite.jpg

Well, you will still lose to Rochdale because St Helens reserves are better than Salford s.

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I think Oldham will be getting the wooden spoon of these "link ups" if they get us at Salford! We can't afford to keep our best first team players and any reserve players will be playing for SL - IF we keep going? Mind you If they do manage the miracle and get new owners in it might work out ok for both clubs? But at the moment we are one "bad news" announcement away from being in the same competition as Oldham next year .....

I don't think anyone is talking about merging teams in these arrangements anyway - if we still had an under 20 + reserves competition like last year, there would be no link ups.

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Well, you will still lose to Rochdale because St Helens reserves are better than Salford s.

Me? I won't be playing Rochdale.

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i think there'll be moves to form a new club if it happens...

Well thats one completely rational solution, any more...?

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erm............we all go watch waterhead,st anne or saddleworth.......which is the most likely one to be honest

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erm............we all go watch waterhead,st anne or saddleworth.......which is the most likely one to be honest

I would guess a sizeable % of Oldham's support already does

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What happened to the lifetime Oldham fan who won the lottery some years back, promising to do right by "my family, and Oldham rugby"?

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He fell out with the club. Sponsored Oldham St Anne's for a while and I believe may have started to watch St Helens. Still lives in Oldham, but very rarely see him at Oldham games.

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What happened to the lifetime Oldham fan who won the lottery some years back, promising to do right by "my family, and Oldham rugby"?

doing "right by my family" started off with buying his wife and daughters boob jobs :lol:

plus he "only" won £4m........lets face it it would'nt have lasted long lol

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He fell out with the club. Sponsored Oldham St Anne's for a while and I believe may have started to watch St Helens.

But I am told nobody in Keighley watches Bradford, Nobody in Halifax watches Bradford either, nobody in Leigh watches Wigan, etc etc etc.

So surely nobody in Oldham watches St. Helens :wacko:

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if you'd have asked me id have gladly told you we lost fans to st helens,wigan,huddersfield & leeds lol

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