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foozler

Oldham

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As a recently new rugby league convert from a soccer supporting family, i started going to Roughyeds games a couple of years ago with a few mates. Even with a shoddy ground and lack of promotion we all on the whole still enjoyed the experience and see potential for some kind of progression for the club.

I know its been mentioned in jest but i just cant see Salford grabbing support from Oldham.

A year ago me and the same lads got an apartment in Manchester towards the Salford end of town and have attended Reds games on a few occasions and although i see them as a second team in some respects (also went to their uni), but as a group we have never felt much passion for the reds Sadly.

Indeed atmosphere wise id say i prefer Whitebank. Be that blind loyalty or just the closeness to the pitch.

Im not anti superleague by any stretch i go to magic weekend and the grand final however and think a them and us attitude isnt the way forward. Its not helped by some so entrenched in the past but also those who seem very much on their high horse who support clubs with very little to lose.

In terms of the chairman i dont know enough to have an informed opinion, but it seems evident some more investment is needed to move the club on.

If they do hook up with a super league team it wont stop me going. Infact i intend to purchase my first ever season ticket now the tram from Manchester is up and running.

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we've not lost many,if any, to salford....they went to huddersfield,wigan & leeds mainly....oh an 1 to st helens :lol:

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2011 Census shows 224,900 people live in the metropolitan borough of Oldham.....and a further 219,300 in Tameside

like i said...nigh on half a million ;)

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I accept that everything I say about supporting the club is academic, as I now live 12,000 miles away from Oldham, but I'm sure that if I was still there I would rather see ORLFC playing as ORLFC in whatever division, rather than part of some SL club.

The club is OLDHAM and always should be !!!

Keep the faith !!!

Right, having got that off my chest I need a bit of a lie down.

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thats how most,if not all, of us feel john.....im 99% sure its not going to happen anyway now thank god.

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snapback.pngThe Art of Hand and Foot, on 25 October 2012 - 04:49 PM, said:

You optimism and ambition is great, but expectations have to be realistic and achievable

About 10 times more than now!

Exactly. So in 30 years, despite the valiant efforts and cash injections from fans, owners and sponsors, how have the 200,000 burghers of Oldham demonstrated a desire for pro Rugby in Oldham?

If a rich RL mad oil sheikh were to look at where to put his money, then the potential of East Manchester, i.e. Oldham, would come close to the top.

Quite. Maybe £20 million for a stadium and then £4 million a year after that so the club could spend up to the cap. It’s not happened in 30 years and in any case, why would he prefer you to Latics? I mean, at least they have the chance of annual results based promotion.

However, I am one of those who think the Championship should look to going it alone.

Not a third code of rugby?

When we were in Super League, I was disappointed with the product.

It’s not like that now, though. Crowds up yet again, viewer numbers up again. Nowt wrong with the product

I believe that in CC1 we can get crowds of 4-5,000 again.

Again, you’ve had 30 years to increase crowds, and its just not happening, despite, as I have said the valiant efforts and cash injections from fans, owners and sponsors, Why do you think that is?

I live for the day we are back in CC1 playing the likes of Leigh, Fax, Featherstone et al

Indeed, and why not? The current RFL regime is designed to allow clubs to build in a sustainable manner. Any club can make it to SuperLeague and any club that makes it to SL now will do so safe in the knowledge that it will have done so on a solid financial foundation for the long term

Yes some existing SL clubs are having to put their houses in order and if they don’t they will have to face the consequences knowing that rising clubs from lower leagues are there to take their places, but only if they are sustainable clubs.

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JohnM, you are, of course, correct, the basic problem is that we need that £20m for a decent stadium.

No one, least of all the local burghers of Oldham are willing to provide it.

There were plans for an upgrade of Boundary Park, called Sports Park 2000, in which Latics and the Bears(as they were then) would share a top class stadium. Very similar to Wigan, Huddersfield and many other clubs are doing today.

Funding was in place it was about to be passed by the local council, and then on the day of the vote, or so I've heard, one councillor had a change of heart. I've even heard it said that that councillor had a dream to vote against. Dunno if that's true so I will say allegedly had a dream to vote against.

So it never came off.

And the rest as they say is myth and legend!!!!

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I need to add that in my opinion, at all levels of the game, the effort, drive and dedication of fans, players, owners, sponsors is immense. . They soldier on, sometimes in the face of insuperable odd, apathy etc and keep the game alive, contributing to the game more in a few years than I have done in 55 years. However.....

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I would have thought that Oldham would be thriving given that they have P&R to act as a major stimulus to spectator interest.

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Cutting their nose off to spite their own face. Its a shame really.

We don't know just yet do we, there are some good championship players going to get their noses pushed out next season, maybe they will end up at sides like Oldhams and in three years time when the RFL (Will be a RFL record) change their plans again, it could be Oldham sat in the pole position.

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We don't know just yet do we, there are some good championship players going to get their noses pushed out next season...

Only the ones that are no longer good enough for the Championship. I'm okay with that.

Players will always find their natural level at some point.

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Funding was in place it was about to be passed by the local council, and then on the day of the vote, or so I've heard, one councillor had a change of heart. I've even heard it said that that councillor had a dream to vote against. Dunno if that's true so I will say allegedly had a dream to vote against.

So it never came off.

And the rest as they say is myth and legend!!!!

So...

Everything was in place but ONE vote brought it all crashing down ?

Hmmmm.

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well we'll let other clubs be the guinea pigs.....and yeah fans would walk away from the club if we become a branch of a super league club

And if they start winning games then they will be replaced by those that turn up to watch a winning team.

Are you one of those that would sooner see Rugby League die altogether than give a little to see it survive.

There's a lot of suicide bombers in the RL world, I'll die killing my club.

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JohnM, you are, of course, correct, the basic problem is that we need that £20m for a decent stadium.

No one, least of all the local burghers of Oldham are willing to provide it.

There were plans for an upgrade of Boundary Park, called Sports Park 2000, in which Latics and the Bears(as they were then) would share a top class stadium. Very similar to Wigan, Huddersfield and many other clubs are doing today.

Funding was in place it was about to be passed by the local council, and then on the day of the vote, or so I've heard, one councillor had a change of heart. I've even heard it said that that councillor had a dream to vote against. Dunno if that's true so I will say allegedly had a dream to vote against.

So it never came off.

And the rest as they say is myth and legend!!!!

I think the stadium point is spot on. Unfortunately in this day and age it isnt cheap to buy a plot of land. Secondly you cant just put simple wooden tracks and cinders round a pitch and build a 20k rugby ground. However you can use cheap temporary stands like Quins RU did

Why are Oldham not allowed to use Boundary Park? I thought this was why they moved out of Watersheddins?

Can Oldhams new ground be developed to >10k? If not then they need a new location

The loss of Oldham as a powerhouse will slowly turn off one of the best conveyor belts of talent. It is a big town with bags of potential - and totally distinct from Manchester as Leigh and Wigan are. Listen their accent for starters....,

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I think the stadium point is spot on. The loss of Oldham as a powerhouse will slowly turn off one of the best conveyor belts of talent. It is a big town with bags of potential.

"Best conveyor belts of talent"????

There's couple of cracking amateur clubs in the area and a few SL players do come from Oldham.

"Bags of potential"????

They were formed in 1876 they've had 146 years to realise this potential and they have 500 fans and play in CC1. Bit like Skolars or Hemel who also produce talent.

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Only the ones that are no longer good enough for the Championship. I'm okay with that.

Players will always find their natural level at some point.

There will undoubtedly players pushed out at championship clubs who were good enough to play in the championship last year and may have developed into better players this year. Now some Championship clubs will be favouring fringe SL players either through wide-eyed optimism or because the fringe players from SL are higher up the pecking order a la Rochdale.

Championship clubs have such a low salary cap that they can't afford extra players outside of the matchday 17 or squad of 25 or so who are players that they'd like to develop during the coming season.

Players want to play each week and not spend a few weeks on the sidleines when the fringe SL players are in favour. They won't want to be seen as a fill-in when the SL player is recalled or injured. The SL fringe player will still be benefitting from full time training, facilities and coaching ahead of the squad player, so its absolutely logical that the SL player is favoured. If the squad players are on match payments only, then even if they are good enough but not getting enough games to bring money in for their families, then they will just step down a few levels, go back to their trade and probably not realise their potential.

This step is short term and has huge impiications for the overall talent pool and that is why it is large threat to the sport

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"Best conveyor belts of talent"????

There's couple of cracking amateur clubs in the area and a few SL players do come from Oldham.

"Bags of potential"????

They were formed in 1876 they've had 146 years to realise this potential and they have 500 fans and play in CC1. Bit like Skolars or Hemel who also produce talent.

A decent number of SL players come from the Oldham area proportionate to not running academy or full junior set-ups.

Just because there isn't a team full of them on SL a la Leeds, do we just abandon the area?

I think your utopia scenario - 4 or 5 strong UK clubs who can spend full cap and more, post a profit and afford full junior set-up, marketing etc etc plus London and 2/3 French clubs and then a set of Sunday league/pub teams below aint going to work either.

RL is about inclusion, all I see in posts is exclusion. It isn't all about money and if you haven't got it don't even bother suggesting what plans and potential and development you may or may not have because they'll just be dismissed with as many posts on this forum as can be mustered so it sinks in. Everyone else outside of the elite should sit in their box and say nowt.

The number of posts about money vs the number of posts about developing the talent pool and the sport itself is illuminating.

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A decent number of SL players come from the Oldham area proportionate to not running academy or full junior set-ups.

Just because there isn't a team full of them on SL a la Leeds, do we just abandon the area?

I think your utopia scenario - 4 or 5 strong UK clubs who can spend full cap and more, post a profit and afford full junior set-up, marketing etc etc plus London and 2/3 French clubs and then a set of Sunday league/pub teams below aint going to work either.

RL is about inclusion, all I see in posts is exclusion. It isn't all about money and if you haven't got it don't even bother suggesting what plans and potential and development you may or may not have because they'll just be dismissed with as many posts on this forum as can be mustered so it sinks in. Everyone else outside of the elite should sit in their box and say nowt.

The number of posts about money vs the number of posts about developing the talent pool and the sport itself is illuminating.

I'm sorry but you cannot escape the fact that pro-sport is about money. Paying players costs money you can't pay them promises, as Bob Dylan said "you can't eat applause for breakfast".

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I would have thought that Oldham would be thriving given that they have P&R to act as a major stimulus to spectator interest.

Quite so. My contention is that despite the efforts of many many loyal and motivated people (who are maybe too close to things to see the bigger picture and are too loyal to admit the real position) this history of the last 30 years shows that the 200,000 declared residents of Oldham MBC or whatever it is called these days are completely indifferent to Oldham RLFC.

Shame though that is, it is still true. Similarly with Salford, possibly and similarly with London. The thing is that these latter two clubs seem to be able to do something to stay at the top level.

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I'm sorry but you cannot escape the fact that pro-sport is about money. Paying players costs money you can't pay them promises, as Bob Dylan said "you can't eat applause for breakfast".

spot on. however much we might like it not to be, the case, Am-rugby is also about money. It costs amateur clubs, amateur players , amateur fans money.

fame costs etc.

Money makes the world go around

The world go around

The world go around

Money makes the world go around

It makes the world go 'round.

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A decent number of SL players come from the Oldham area proportionate to not running academy or full junior set-ups.

Just because there isn't a team full of them on SL a la Leeds, do we just abandon the area?

Shaun.

What makes Oldham a decent area for RL.

I suggest it is....

a. They play the game in schools

b. strong local amateur clubs like saddleworth and St.Annes run junior clubs that turn out pro player

c. Pro players can get contracts with pro clubs like Sinny at Leeds etc.

d. enthusiasts for the game can watch it on SKY or go watch it live.

Now where does Oldham RLFC come in. Well 500 people like to watch them in CC.

Who said anything about abandoning the area?? I don't think I did??

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The last 30 years shows that the 200,000 declared residents of Oldham MBC or whatever it is called these days are completely indifferent to Oldham RLFC.

I'm not sure that is completely true. The good people of Oldham probably have up to 3,000 who would NOT be indifferent to a Oldham Superleague club (they weren't indifferent in 1996/7 on 3,500 crowds).

Now who shall we boot out of SL to put them in, and where will Mr. Hamilton find £25.000.000 from?

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I would have thought that Oldham would be thriving given that they have P&R to act as a major stimulus to spectator interest.

It might help if they could actually get promoted.

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A decent number of SL players come from the Oldham area proportionate to not running academy or full junior set-ups.

Just because there isn't a team full of them on SL a la Leeds, do we just abandon the area?

I think your utopia scenario - 4 or 5 strong UK clubs who can spend full cap and more, post a profit and afford full junior set-up, marketing etc etc plus London and 2/3 French clubs and then a set of Sunday league/pub teams below aint going to work either.

RL is about inclusion, all I see in posts is exclusion. It isn't all about money and if you haven't got it don't even bother suggesting what plans and potential and development you may or may not have because they'll just be dismissed with as many posts on this forum as can be mustered so it sinks in. Everyone else outside of the elite should sit in their box and say nowt.

The number of posts about money vs the number of posts about developing the talent pool and the sport itself is illuminating.

Finally, a fellow traveller. Couldn't agree more with your post. A moribund franchise like Wakefield found an investor and suddenly they are an elite team worthy of all praise. It's inconceivable to the naysayers that anybody else can do it.

They can tout the virtues of a French club in Toulouse who bring nothing to Sky's coffers and were a complete disaster when they were competing at a level higher than Oldham are currently operating at because that's the current in vogue thinking but god forbid that any other team could even think about moving in that direction.

It's all about ring fences and whether your face fits or not.

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It might help if they could actually get promoted.

you don't need to get promoted, we are told that just having P&R makes people turn up their droves.

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