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foozler

Oldham

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Funnily enough John I put a line in my post about amateurs and money and how the richer amateur clubs rise to the top but decided to delete it.

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I'm not sure that is completely true. The good people of Oldham probably have up to 3,000 who would NOT be indifferent to a Oldham Superleague club (they weren't indifferent in 1996/7 on 3,500 crowds).

Now who shall we boot out of SL to put them in, and where will Mr. Hamilton find £25.000.000 from?

Nobody is suggesting Oldham for SL. They are light years away from that. They are merely saying the Oldham area is SL territory. Given that in 1996/7 Leeds were pulling in 6,000 if they were lucky, I think that the 3,500 Oldham generated might transalate to double that if they ever made SL in this era. This would be way more than London can muster and on a par with Salford, Castleford and the planned attendances at Toulouse.

Oh, but wait, all those English franchises are on the chopping block in the big downsizing super dooper future success plan for SL league.Nnever mind then, Oldham can aim for the hinted at SL2 which might eclipse the rump SL1 down the road. Nobody likes stagnant small pools..

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Nobody is suggesting Oldham for SL. They are light years away from that. They are merely saying the Oldham area is SL territory. Given that in 1996/7 Leeds were pulling in 6,000 if they were lucky, I think that the 3,500 Oldham generated might transalate to double that if they ever made SL in this era. This would be way more than London can muster and on a par with Salford, Castleford and the planned attendances at Toulouse.

Oh, but wait, all those English franchises are on the chopping block in the big downsizing super dooper future success plan for SL league.Nnever mind then, Oldham can aim for the hinted at SL2 which might eclipse the rump SL1 down the road. Nobody likes stagnant small pools..

London are important for the player pool, if you disagree ring the RFL.

Toulouse are important for new money and international RL if you disagree ring SLE

As for any of the M62 SL incumbents I'm fine with Oldham shifting any of them.

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I'm not sure that is completely true. The good people of Oldham probably have up to 3,000 who would NOT be indifferent to a Oldham Superleague club (they weren't indifferent in 1996/7 on 3,500 crowds).

Now who shall we boot out of SL to put them in, and where will Mr. Hamilton find £25.000.000 from?

yes. still not many, though. I guess what I am saying is that despite the drive, efforts, money etc of anyone and everyone who cares about Oldham RLFC, over 30 years, with different people running the RFL, different league structures, different..well different everything, the story is one of gradual decline when others have improved. Ain't no ones fault... it's kismet.

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A moribund franchise like Wakefield found an investor and suddenly they are an elite team worthy of all praise. It's inconceivable to the naysayers that anybody else can do it.

Mr. Glover made it plain he didn't have much to invest.

Anyway with a big new stadium and 8,000 crowds already I suspect he feels he may be able to manage to keep Wakefield solvent and compete in SL.

Now ask yourself this now you know the facts.

Could the likes of Mr. Glover of Mr. "Two Restraunts" Khan make Oldham a Superleague club???

Careful you don't become a naysayer yourself :lol:

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yes. still not many, though. I guess what I am saying is that despite the drive, efforts, money etc of anyone and everyone who cares about Oldham RLFC, over 30 years, with different people running the RFL, different league structures, different..well different everything, the story is one of gradual decline when others have improved. Ain't no ones fault... it's kismet.

That's sport, winners and losers and all that

Thankfully the gradual decline of a few clubs is more than made up for by by the rapid rise of the big SL clubs!!

Without them we'd all be in decline

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you don't need to get promoted, we are told that just having P&R makes people turn up their droves.

Are you saying that if Oldham had topped the table and won the grand final in the recently concluded CC1 season that their attendances would not have risen because I would bet that they would have. if there is p and r but you are at the bottom of the league and/or miss the playoffs this will reflect in a negative way on your attendances. Check out the mighty Wigan's attendances when they were in Division two vis a vis their current crowds as a top level, though ultimately trophyless, SL team.

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London are important for the player pool, if you disagree ring the RFL.

Toulouse are important for new money and international RL if you disagree ring SLE

As for any of the M62 SL incumbents I'm fine with Oldham shifting any of them.

A Toulouse versus London grand final is the league's worst nightmare.

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That's sport, winners and losers and all that

Thankfully the gradual decline of a few clubs is more than made up for by by the rapid rise of the big SL clubs!!

Without them we'd all be in decline

Big as in Bradford and London, those shining beacons of fiscal competence and ground busting attendances respectively.

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A Toulouse versus London grand final is the league's worst nightmare.

Can't agree.That would be great final and a great outcome for the game, ...

Unless of course it were say, just picking clubs at random...Oldham V Keighley. That would surely reinforce our game as a small town sport in the north of England

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Big as in Bradford and London, those shining beacons of fiscal competence and ground busting attendances respectively.

wateverh! They must have something though, as they are still going!

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I'm sorry but you cannot escape the fact that pro-sport is about money. Paying players costs money you can't pay them promises, as Bob Dylan said "you can't eat applause for breakfast".

Of course pro sport is about money. Who said it wasn't. Of course players will need paying and paying well.

As a game we have to decide whether its ALL about money or a mixture of financial competence, development of the talent pool and inclusion. Laissez faire vs the market runs everything.

If money runs everything then we have greed and in RL we wiil have a very small peak of the pyramid and sand underneath. I don't want RL to be that structure/model - how exiting will an 8 team SL be and then little else? To me that would also end the Challenge Cup and semi pro RL. It may wholly satisfy Sky and a smaller portion of the RL fraternity, but who else.

On another point - SL clubs are offloading players. Do some of them now have room on the salary cap, or further room if they weren't spending the cap? What will they do with that potential available cap - more average Aussie sand Kolpaks?

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Big as in Bradford and London, those shining beacons of fiscal competence and ground busting attendances respectively.

You know full well why London are in. It's because places like Oldham & Keighley don't have enough of an amateur junior base.

Wigan, Saints, Leeds, Bradford biggest fanbases in the Rugby League.

When did Oldham last get 11,671 as an average.

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wateverh! They must have something though, as they are still going!

Indeed, but they had better watch their backs.Castleford, Salford and Hull KR have been earmarked for the chop but to get down to ten and add Toulouse they have to ditch two other clubs.

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You know full well why London are in. It's because places like Oldham & Keighley don't have enough of an amateur junior base.

Wigan, Saints, Leeds, Bradford biggest fanbases in the Rugby League.

When did Oldham last get 11,671 as an average.

Last time I looked the England Captain and man of the match in the grand final came from Oldham junior rugby. Also, we've been through this before but the argument just dosn't get through to you.The growth of player production in London has nothing to do with London broncos. All the major action is in the North and South East of london, far, far away from Twickenham. Its impetus is from the likes of South London Storm, Greenwich Admirals and Medway for example. It';s helped along by RFL fjunded development officers. Did you see the article about the outstanding growth of RL in East London in the last RLW magasine. The Broncos weren't mentioned once.

Wigan, Saints, Leeds and Bradford eh, nothing like going to the top of the tree attendancewise. What about a comparison with Salford, Castleford, London, Widnes, Hull KR and yes , even Wakefield or Crusaders who they were quite willing to keep in SL until they voluntarily exited stage left. Your always predictable rush to the top always eliminates the middle ground and stultifies the argument with unrealistic comparisons.

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Can't agree.That would be great final and a great outcome for the game, ...

Unless of course it were say, just picking clubs at random...Oldham V Keighley. That would surely reinforce our game as a small town sport in the north of England

Keighley did play Oldham in a grand final just two years ago and the attendance was reasonable for that level of competiton. The Oldham v Widnes game a few seasons ago was part of combined 20,000 plus attendance at Headingley, more than Leeds get on a regular basis.

London v Toulouse could be played at Hemel and not fill the ground. The RFL would have a collective stroke if that final happened. They were upset when Catalans were a Cup finalists even though their opponent that day was a top SL team from the heartlands.

I am not saying that such a final would be bad, merely that there are current potential SL finals that would be worse attendancewise than should an Oldham or Leigh or Halifax or whomever eventually rise to SL level and enter the fray.

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Mr. Glover made it plain he didn't have much to invest.

Anyway with a big new stadium and 8,000 crowds already I suspect he feels he may be able to manage to keep Wakefield solvent and compete in SL.

Now ask yourself this now you know the facts.

Could the likes of Mr. Glover of Mr. "Two Restraunts" Khan make Oldham a Superleague club???

Careful you don't become a naysayer yourself :lol:

The resurgence at Wakefield is great. Nobody is disputing that. The point is that you would deny that any other club could ever make such a renaissance.

Secondly, how many times do you have to be told. Oldham is light years away from being A SL club. They need to get to CC from CC1, increase their spectator numbers, find lower level investment to stabilise the club ( which they did previously but it didn't work out ) and then start to address their stadium issues. This might take years.

The point at issue is that Oldham as a town is of sufficient size and in a geographical location on the Eastern side of Manchester whereby it could sustain a SL club.

If they stabilise and achieve all the goals I have listed then who knows what investors or speculators are out there who might take a chance on financing Oldham. Catalans came from nowhere to SL prominence. They had crowd issues, they had stadium issues but they got it done.

Hull KR and Hudddersfield also. You can never say never and if you can, then you shouldn't. the words "Ring " and Fenced" should not be in the RL vocabulary.

Naysayer, me, you think so. I shall give up my Tribunus Plebis job immediately. I am unworthy. :D

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We are talking about traditional areas like they will never ever be able to recover the interest in Rugby League football again and then in the next breath talk about developing new areas with potential, surely if the Rugby Football League had put as much effort into your Oldhams etc these areas could be flourishing again.

I know the bigger picture at present is to have a limited number of elite clubs dotted about the country, but is this system the best system for the game to survive especially when you look at how many new areas have failed.

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Of course Oldham could support a superleague club with the right financial structures in place and a decent ground. How to achieve this is the issue. They have a big enough catchment area in my opinion to build crowds. All of this takes time, perseverance, dedication and patience from a lot of people.

I used to like going to the Watersheddings, after a few a few pints in Delph. Happy days. It would be good to see Oldham progressing again.

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So...

Everything was in place but ONE vote brought it all crashing down ?

Hmmmm.

Yep! Honestly, it was that close.

Look at the area around Boundary Park, there is a new B&Q, car show room and pub that was the first phase of development. and behind that stands Clayton Playing Fields that was meant to be redevoloped. But because there was a covenant on it it needed a special vote. There was a campaign led by somelocal people, who after the vote took the case to court and had the area declared a village green!?????? So it can never be developed.

Phase one had already started but never got to phase two.

It was a case of NIMBYism.

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The Oldham v Widnes game a few seasons ago was part of combined 20,000 plus attendance at Headingley, more than Leeds get on a regular basis.

Oldham v Widnes was actually in 2001 at Spotland with a crowd of about 9000. It was Oldham v Featherstone that was at Headingley. Sorry to be a smart ######.

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The point at issue is that Oldham as a town is of sufficient size and in a geographical location on the Eastern side of Manchester whereby it could sustain a SL club.

Three decent amateur clubs, four oldham lads playing in SL, last time out in SL 3600 fans........

Give over......

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Keighley v Oldham, Oldham v Widnes or London v Toulouse?

Hmmm..let me think about that for a moment.

I wonder which would attract t the most media attention and coverage, sponsorship, viewers etc

I wonder which one of those would best illustrate the game's forward looking and outward looking attitude.

I wonder which one of those would shout out to the world's huddled masses, "This is YOUR game!"

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Oldham v Widnes was actually in 2001 at Spotland with a crowd of about 9000. It was Oldham v Featherstone that was at Headingley. Sorry to be a smart ######.

That's quite alright. I thought I might have been wrong when I typed it but I am marooned in an office with no reference books.However your correction merely re inforces my original point which was that, even at the lower tier level, succesful teams, even an Oldham team, can draw decent crowds so what might happen if such fixtures were ever replicated in SL. 9,000 at Spotland is way more than anything Widnes got this season in SL.

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Three decent amateur clubs, four oldham lads playing in SL, last time out in SL 3600 fans........

Give over......

How many decent amateur teams in Bradford, not many or around Headingley, none. 3,600 as has already been pointed out was in an era when most SL crowds were very low so the 3,600 today would probably be double that, from visiting fans alone you would get quite a few.

Bradford have gone fron 200, 2nd Div to 5,000, div one champions, to 15,000, SL champions to 8,000 SL strugglers, TO 11,000, cheap season tickets, to ???? a struggling re formed team next season.

So Oldham, in the future, if they get everything sorted out could well achieve respectable attendances. Things are cyclical and are not always down, down, down to suit your arguments.

For mercies sake....

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