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foozler

Oldham

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agree 100%

it meant spendin g money you didn't ghave on mediocre players in a bid to stay up, and almost inevitable failing, and the financial consequences which led to the ultimate demise of the club.

Sounds like some SL clubs. Examples of which are Bradford, Crusaders, London etc etc. But Oldham will be back, bigger and better managed! ;)

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Whilst Roughyedspud named the top 3 amateur clubs in the town, there are others, Hollinwood, Fitton Hill and Higginshaw. There is also the newly formed Limehurst Lions created with the help of the Roughyeds to get the locals around the Whitebank area interested. I know a lot of clubs went by the way side in the town during the eighties. But without a top tier professional club in the town to aspire to, there is still plenty of interest in playing the game in the town. Up until recently statistics showed that Oldham Service Area was the 2nd highest producer of Professional palyers at all levels in the game. This sadly has dropped to around 7th or 8th now. The bigger shame is the RFL announcing they will not be funding the development officer posts after forcing through their player pathway and alienating the previous volunteer force who produced all of these players. One more question, how many towns can boast to have produced at least 4 national team Captains over the last 20 years? and we are not mentioning the Cricket or Football National team captains which also hailed from the Oldham MBC.

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Sounds like some SL clubs. Examples of which are Bradford, Crusaders, London etc etc. But Oldham will be back, bigger and better managed! ;)

doesn't sound anything like them.

Crusaders admission to SL was poor decision making by the governing body

Bradford, salford etc were the result of poor decision making and management by individual clubs.

Oldham along with others were perpetual participants in a system which was destroying them: see previous post.

I hope Ol,dham will be back, but if and when they are I hope they make a better contribution than they have over the last half century or so.

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One more question, how many towns can boast to have produced at least 4 national team Captains over the last 20 years? and we are not mentioning the Cricket or Football National team captains which also hailed from the Oldham MBC.

isn't that the wrong question to ask?

The issue is that despite all this talent in the area, why were Oldham unable to sign so few of what ammounts to dozens if not hundreds of top quality professional rugby league players over the years, and were unable to keep those that they did sign?

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e produced at least 4 national team Captains over the last 20 years? and we are not mentioning the Cricket or Football National team captains which also hailed from the Oldham MBC.

well done for your defence of the town but maybe there is something wrong somewhere then if the nation does not recognise the above facts, if the town cannot capitalise on that and if the burghers of Oldham are not prepared to support its sports clubs.

Sill no one has corrected the Wikipedia entry, which means I think, that it is in fact correct, or that no one can be bothered to correct it,

However, keep on fighting to rebuild your club on a sound foundation and to a level that is sustainable.

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I hate bigging up the club too much, as you get on a role, that is when the next catastrophic event is announced. But anyone who is critical of the club should thank the fact that they are now playing within the borough of Oldham again. There should also be a feeling of warmth about the club being one of few if not the only one to run a reserve team at that level and this is producing players to the 1st team grade. In my life time, Oldham has had most success when they have produced the nucleus of the team from within.

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I hate bigging up the club too much, as you get on a role, that is when the next catastrophic event is announced. But anyone who is critical of the club should thank the fact that they are now playing within the borough of Oldham again. There should also be a feeling of warmth about the club being one of few if not the only one to run a reserve team at that level and this is producing players to the 1st team grade. In my life time, Oldham has had most success when they have produced the nucleus of the team from within.

it's called pride mate.

I think Oldham are at base camp right now. let's hope the public of Oldham get behind the club in its long term mission.

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Oldham provided us with the best chant ever...

Give us a T.... I.... T.... S and what do you do? Oldham, Oldham! :lol:

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1. All you have proved with that silly example is any CC club can get into Superleague if a millionaire makes up their trading shortfall year on year on year on year.

I've already agreed that is the one way it can happen. But Fartown haven't won anything have they and Daveys been at it 10 years.

2. You have yet to give me anything beyond a millionaire coming along and putting tens of millions in to show me how small RL clubs on less than £1M turnover can get to be SL clubs on £5M turnovers.

Show me some evidence or logic rather than this rich man came a knocking rubbish......

I don't see why you have to turnover the same amount as the other clubs to compete financially. Why don't you just build a squad within your own financial means to try and compete. Fair enough you may get beaten a fair few times during the season and may get relegated with a whimper but at least you gave it a go. Its like Blackpool football when they got promoted their turnover increased massively due to obvious tv deals and sponsorship which comes with promotion. The increase in turnover would happen in SL but obviously not in the same scale. Even with the increase in turnover Blackpool still didnt turnover a quarter of some of the top clubs, but they still managed to compete. They didn't go overboard on wages ect they bought a team from lower divisions which was well within their means and tried to survive on it. They did get relegated yes, but they just took the profit they made on that season due to not spending their money on all out survival went down a division and spent their money on improving aspects of the club for the future. My friend who's in boltons academy system says he has played against some much better blackpool sides recently. Now Blackpool are trying to get promoted again and they'll donthe same thing so the club comes bacl stronger. Surely if you just live within your own means this can be applied to RL? Relegation surely won't matter if you plan for it and ensure you get a profit due to the increase in turnover. Then you can try and come back stronger and keep trying to build the club up being financially sensible. I don't see how SL will be the 'death' of clubs because they can't cope financially, just cope within your own means and do your best to compete, and if you go back down at least you tried. I'd imagine getting into SL will add more bums on seats but even if they are getting beat most weeks people are still watching them and will support them win lose or draw.

I'm not saying Oldham should be in SL, but I don't see if a club got into SL how they'd die financially if they spend within there own means and just accept they can't spend as much as others on their squad but use the increase in turnover sensibly.

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Whilst it has been quite entertaining reading about how this thread has developed into the fantasy notion of Oldham getting back into SL it is worth remembering that the question which started this thread was about Oldham linking up with a SL team as a feeder club . To try to return to this here is my personal view on this prospect . As a RL convert from football some 20+years ago I have turned up week in week out to watch my home town team Oldham . Lord knows there have been times when I have wondered why in view of the countless disappointments I have had to endure during that period but in spite of all this I am still as passionate about supporting Oldham as I was all those years ago and I can't wait for the new season to start . However would I have the same passion for my club if it became little more than Salford reserves or Saints reserves or any other reserves for that matter ....I don't think so . Would I turn out in the pouring rain to watch to watch a feeder club ... again I don't think so . In addition what sort of team spirit and passion can be generated at a feeder club when the players can change on a weekly basis. Why would a player contracted to Oldham be prepared to bust a gut for the club if through no fault of his own he was regularly losing his place to a fringe player from the parent club . Imo in recent years we have been too quick to recruit loan / dual reg players rather than promote from our successful reserve team as our reserve team player may be a lesser standard than the loan signing but that is more than made up for by the pride and passion the contracted player feels for his own club . So what I am trying to say is that becoming a feeder club would quickly erode any pride and passion the spectators and players feel for the club and without that pride and passion it all becomes meaningless . I sincerely hope we never go down that path . It will be interesting to see how the stand alone clubs fare against the feeder clubs this season and I hope that we are still in the stand alone camp. We have a new and exciting coaching setup with Scott Naylor and Lee Spencer and we seem to be recruiting some good young talent . Maybe this season will be the one when our fortunes change and we see some success on and off the field . As a stand alone club I can still have these dreams .. can't believe I would feel like this if we were a feeder club .

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Whilst it has been quite entertaining reading about how this thread has developed into the fantasy notion of Oldham getting back into SL it is worth remembering that the question which started this thread was about Oldham linking up with a SL team as a feeder club . To try to return to this here is my personal view on this prospect . As a RL convert from football some 20+years ago I have turned up week in week out to watch my home town team Oldham . Lord knows there have been times when I have wondered why in view of the countless disappointments I have had to endure during that period but in spite of all this I am still as passionate about supporting Oldham as I was all those years ago and I can't wait for the new season to start . However would I have the same passion for my club if it became little more than Salford reserves or Saints reserves or any other reserves for that matter ....I don't think so . Would I turn out in the pouring rain to watch to watch a feeder club ... again I don't think so . In addition what sort of team spirit and passion can be generated at a feeder club when the players can change on a weekly basis. Why would a player contracted to Oldham be prepared to bust a gut for the club if through no fault of his own he was regularly losing his place to a fringe player from the parent club . Imo in recent years we have been too quick to recruit loan / dual reg players rather than promote from our successful reserve team as our reserve team player may be a lesser standard than the loan signing but that is more than made up for by the pride and passion the contracted player feels for his own club . So what I am trying to say is that becoming a feeder club would quickly erode any pride and passion the spectators and players feel for the club and without that pride and passion it all becomes meaningless . I sincerely hope we never go down that path . It will be interesting to see how the stand alone clubs fare against the feeder clubs this season and I hope that we are still in the stand alone camp. We have a new and exciting coaching setup with Scott Naylor and Lee Spencer and we seem to be recruiting some good young talent . Maybe this season will be the one when our fortunes change and we see some success on and off the field . As a stand alone club I can still have these dreams .. can't believe I would feel like this if we were a feeder club .

My thoughts entirely.

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Whilst it has been quite entertaining reading about how this thread has developed into the fantasy notion of Oldham getting back into SL it is worth remembering that the question which started this thread was about Oldham linking up with a SL team as a feeder club . To try to return to this here is my personal view on this prospect . As a RL convert from football some 20+years ago I have turned up week in week out to watch my home town team Oldham . Lord knows there have been times when I have wondered why in view of the countless disappointments I have had to endure during that period but in spite of all this I am still as passionate about supporting Oldham as I was all those years ago and I can't wait for the new season to start . However would I have the same passion for my club if it became little more than Salford reserves or Saints reserves or any other reserves for that matter ....I don't think so . Would I turn out in the pouring rain to watch to watch a feeder club ... again I don't think so . In addition what sort of team spirit and passion can be generated at a feeder club when the players can change on a weekly basis. Why would a player contracted to Oldham be prepared to bust a gut for the club if through no fault of his own he was regularly losing his place to a fringe player from the parent club . Imo in recent years we have been too quick to recruit loan / dual reg players rather than promote from our successful reserve team as our reserve team player may be a lesser standard than the loan signing but that is more than made up for by the pride and passion the contracted player feels for his own club . So what I am trying to say is that becoming a feeder club would quickly erode any pride and passion the spectators and players feel for the club and without that pride and passion it all becomes meaningless . I sincerely hope we never go down that path . It will be interesting to see how the stand alone clubs fare against the feeder clubs this season and I hope that we are still in the stand alone camp. We have a new and exciting coaching setup with Scott Naylor and Lee Spencer and we seem to be recruiting some good young talent . Maybe this season will be the one when our fortunes change and we see some success on and off the field . As a stand alone club I can still have these dreams .. can't believe I would feel like this if we were a feeder club .

Paragraphs are your friend, don't be afraid to use them.

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Winning the 2nd division,when it mattered,means something....

We won the second division "when it mattered" (I assume you mean it gave you promotion?). In the end we did not get the promotion but winning the division was great anyway. Some fans probably feel that although SL is a dream winning their competition will be fantastic, I assume others will say It's pointless and lose interest.

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Whilst it has been quite entertaining reading about how this thread has developed into the fantasy notion of Oldham getting back into SL it is worth remembering that the question which started this thread was about Oldham linking up with a SL team as a feeder club . To try to return to this here is my personal view on this prospect . As a RL convert from football some 20+years ago I have turned up week in week out to watch my home town team Oldham . Lord knows there have been times when I have wondered why in view of the countless disappointments I have had to endure during that period but in spite of all this I am still as passionate about supporting Oldham as I was all those years ago and I can't wait for the new season to start . However would I have the same passion for my club if it became little more than Salford reserves or Saints reserves or any other reserves for that matter ....I don't think so . Would I turn out in the pouring rain to watch to watch a feeder club ... again I don't think so . In addition what sort of team spirit and passion can be generated at a feeder club when the players can change on a weekly basis. Why would a player contracted to Oldham be prepared to bust a gut for the club if through no fault of his own he was regularly losing his place to a fringe player from the parent club . Imo in recent years we have been too quick to recruit loan / dual reg players rather than promote from our successful reserve team as our reserve team player may be a lesser standard than the loan signing but that is more than made up for by the pride and passion the contracted player feels for his own club . So what I am trying to say is that becoming a feeder club would quickly erode any pride and passion the spectators and players feel for the club and without that pride and passion it all becomes meaningless . I sincerely hope we never go down that path . It will be interesting to see how the stand alone clubs fare against the feeder clubs this season and I hope that we are still in the stand alone camp. We have a new and exciting coaching setup with Scott Naylor and Lee Spencer and we seem to be recruiting some good young talent . Maybe this season will be the one when our fortunes change and we see some success on and off the field . As a stand alone club I can still have these dreams .. can't believe I would feel like this if we were a feeder club .

Thanks for the post. Interesting stuff...

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I don't see why you have to turnover the same amount as the other clubs to compete financially. Why don't you just build a squad within your own financial means to try and compete. Fair enough you may get beaten a fair few times during the season and may get relegated with a whimper but at least you gave it a go. Its like Blackpool football when they got promoted

I don't see how SL will be the 'death' of clubs because they can't cope financially, just cope within your own means and do your best to compete, and if you go back down at least you tried.

Well look at how it works in RL not soccer where there are no player shortages and standards between divisions are not as stark.

2003 Halifax could only afford £400k for wages so that's roughly what they spent. They beat London and didn't win another game after that, and crowds went down and down.

2005 Leigh could not afford full cap and spent what they could, they won two games and went down penniless.

Both clubs survived - nobody died.

Those who support P & R say what's wrong with that. Clubs earn the right to play in SL and if they don't do anything so what, they go down, and another club has a go.

The problem is that the second division RL clubs don't have a professional team like Blackpol FC had when they were promoted nor access to quality professionals they can sign on for a season to add to that strong base.

So anyone promoted have to largely change their team and build a whole new side in a matter of weeks when there aren't the quality players to build it with.

It all becomes a pointless excersise in a way. the other thing to look at is who goes down??

This year Sheffield would have gone up and would have needed a lot of money to build a competetive side and who is there to buy who'd want a one year contract? Widnes would have gone down just as they are trying to build an SL side undoing all the work O'Connor has done. If London or catalans come bottom the RFL won't want to relegate them for sure.

It's not soccer BRK and so to make the transition succesfully you do need a lot of money. Having said that both Crusaders and Wakefield built scratch sides and went well to the shame of established SL clubs who didn't.

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I could not let this one go by. Firstly no interest in Oldham when you were schooled there in 1964-68.

Let me bring your attention to the 1963/64 Challenge Cup semi v HullKR, drawn once, then abandoned second game whilst infront and finally beaten in the third game with attendances of 28,556, 27,209 and 33.003 respectively. 1966/67 Lancashire Cup Final against Wigan Att 14,193. So without digging out more facts, i would say there was interest in RL in the town then. Oldham did not ask for a bail out and then sell their ground in 87. That may have been the time when they sold their training ground, but the club was still thriving having got to another CC Cup semi the season before and made it to Old Trafford the year after to beat Fev in a divisional play off final. Watersheddings was eventually sold to a council holding company in 1995, for a much reduced price, under the promise of a new stadium for joint use with Oldham Athletic or a single use Stadium if they did not come on board. We Oldham fans are still waiting or did the council deliver with Whitebank?

97 (apparently)

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Here's my list of smaller clubs who got to "play with the big boys" Barrow (won the lancs cup 1983) Sheffield (won the RL cup) Fev (won all sorts!!) Gateshead ( played superleague) Leigh (won cup and league under Murphy) Donny (first division) Dewsbury (were champs in 1973) Keighley (Cougarmania years) York (made an RLCC semi against Wigan) Blackpool (got to division one and beat leeds at headingley) Hunslet (twice in the top division) Workington (played Superleague) Oldham (played superleague)

Gateshead were not "a smaller club who got to play with the big boys". They were dropped into SL without having been a lower-league side.

Cougars never did get to play with the big boys. They were denied promotion and the bubble burst.

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Gateshead were not "a smaller club who got to play with the big boys". They were dropped into SL without having been a lower-league side.

Cougars never did get to play with the big boys. They were denied promotion and the bubble burst.

Not only did Gateshead get dropped in to SL but I think I am right in that they did not get any Sky Funding. So much for the expansionist altruistic all for the good of the game SL powerbrokers.

Cougars, don't go there Northern Sol, that brings out the fangs, ground razor sharp, from the anti promotion, only the anointed in SL crowd.

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97 (apparently)

And this left them homeless and wandering in the wilderness like Moses in the desert for about 15 years. It's a miracle of similar biblical proportions that they survived at all.

Now they are back in the promised land of Oldham Borough and hopefully on their way back as a club.

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And this left them homeless and wandering in the wilderness like Moses in the desert for about 15 years. It's a miracle of similar biblical proportions that they survived at all.

Now they are back in the promised land of Oldham Borough and hopefully on their way back as a club.

what do you think got them into that mess?

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Well look at how it works in RL not soccer where there are no player shortages and standards between divisions are not as stark.

2003 Halifax could only afford £400k for wages so that's roughly what they spent. They beat London and didn't win another game after that, and crowds went down and down.

2005 Leigh could not afford full cap and spent what they could, they won two games and went down penniless.

Both clubs survived - nobody died.

Those who support P & R say what's wrong with that. Clubs earn the right to play in SL and if they don't do anything so what, they go down, and another club has a go.

The problem is that the second division RL clubs don't have a professional team like Blackpol FC had when they were promoted nor access to quality professionals they can sign on for a season to add to that strong base.

So anyone promoted have to largely change their team and build a whole new side in a matter of weeks when there aren't the quality players to build it with.

It all becomes a pointless excersise in a way. the other thing to look at is who goes down??

This year Sheffield would have gone up and would have needed a lot of money to build a competetive side and who is there to buy who'd want a one year contract? Widnes would have gone down just as they are trying to build an SL side undoing all the work O'Connor has done. If London or catalans come bottom the RFL won't want to relegate them for sure.

It's not soccer BRK and so to make the transition succesfully you do need a lot of money. Having said that both Crusaders and Wakefield built scratch sides and went well to the shame of established SL clubs who didn't.

What is the difference from having to build a SL team after promotion to building one after being awarded a SL licence. Widnes were awarded a licence and finished bottom. Catalans were awarded a licence and finished bottom.

Hull KR were promoted and stayed up, also Huddesrfield, Wakefield and Castleford. What is the difference.?

Huddersfield and Castleford ( twice) went down but came back and survived.

If Widnes had have gone down this year, then it would be their own fault for recruiting a sub standard team and a poor coaching staff after coasting through their last season in CC and making no effort to recruit properly. They would have survived if O,Connor was the true fan/owner he seems to be and had stuck with them to rebuild for another crack at promotion.

If London had gone down this might not have been a bad thing. The juniors that you rightly laud as having been London born and bred in their team are clearly, talented though they might be, finding it too much of a jump from london amateur RL to SL. A season in CC would be a better fit for them to acclimatise to pro rugby before a leap to SL if the broncos got promotion. They would lose the Sky funding but the reduction in wages expenses and the possible increase in attendances from having, finally, a successful team might well have compensated for that. This would also be a true test of Hughes and his loyalty to the club. If he bailed it would only be a taste of what is to come in any case.

If we ever went back to p and r the status of the French club(s) would have to be thrashed out. If they are relegated, where to, CC or LER for example but it is not an unresolvable problem. The precedent for a French team to operate in CC has already been set with Toulouse's participation at that level for instance.

Finally, that you need money to be in SL is undeniable but, from the state of several existing members of SL, it would appear that the amount of money needed is going to have to be reduced for them to survive. This would make it easier for any promoted club to compete.

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what do you think got them into that mess?

Who the Isrealites?

Or did you mean God's chosen people!? Who, as we all know are from Oldham!!! Heh heh heh!

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what do you think got them into that mess?

Well, from what I have read on here, if they were promised a ground by the council if they sold Watersheddings and it didn't materialise, I suspect that would have been a big part of their downfall. i don't know the ins and outs of their demise. I am sure there was also bad management.

I know it was bad for RL. They had been a 1st Div/SL club for a few years before they got into trouble. I remember seeing them play Leeds at Headingley when Hussein M'Barki was one of their backs.

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