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EastLondonMike

Should the RFL take some responsibility from the clubs?

60 posts in this topic

many other sports are welcome of their involvement

Such as?

(Genuine question: I have a feeling they sponsor snooker but can't think of any others).

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As the figure publicly quoted was £750,000 per year your maths is awry...and Betfair are masters of marketing, it is in their own interest to make whatever sport they involve themselves in stronger , many other sports are welcome of their involvement, it was a winning situation all round. Stobarts hardly appear to have any motivation whatsoever.

The only mention I saw of £750k was over 3 years - £250k per year (£16k per year split 15 ways). This would get them more coverage from every club than a minor sponsor would get at these same clubs.

If you have any links to anything higher than this then could you show us.

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Incorrect on both counts...unless RL started with Super League that it...

I started watching rugby league in 1987 and the sport was pretty much broke and playing to empty terraces.

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Heard recently the Betfair deal was actually 5m over 3 years..

If that was the case, and personally I am cynical of that, then I would happily change my opinion and call them idiots for not taking such a deal.

I would be stunned if clubs would vote against this deal though (no point people comingon talking about exclusive deals etc. - we have had loads of sponsorships which conflict with central deals - William Hills were sponsors until last year).

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If that was the case, and personally I am cynical of that, then I would happily change my opinion and call them idiots for not taking such a deal.

I would be stunned if clubs would vote against this deal though (no point people comingon talking about exclusive deals etc. - we have had loads of sponsorships which conflict with central deals - William Hills were sponsors until last year).

£750,000 for a single season was, I believe, what went in the League Express of the time.

Betfair at over £1.5m a season for three years would have been (again, based on LE figures and statements on here) the biggest deal ever given to Super League.

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The only mention I saw of £750k was over 3 years - £250k per year (£16k per year split 15 ways). This would get them more coverage from every club than a minor sponsor would get at these same clubs.

If you have any links to anything higher than this then could you show us.

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CDAQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.telegraph.co.uk%2Fsport%2Frugbyleague%2F9036472%2FSuper-League-clubs-reject-bookmakers-Betfair-in-favour-of-Stobart-as-title-sponsors-for-2012-competition.html&ei=wfeIULW2FomV0QX194G4BQ&usg=AFQjCNGUF1o6PtpsRnJkGCuOTYMmKxcp7A&cad=rja

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£750,000 for a single season was, I believe, what went in the League Express of the time.

Betfair at over £1.5m a season for three years would have been (again, based on LE figures and statements on here) the biggest deal ever given to Super League.

It was widely reported that the Engage deal was £1.2 million per year...

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Cheers.

One thing that should be remembered is that the RFL's strategy was to get in a few 'Associate' Sponsors, who would in effect make up a panel of sponsors and reduce the financial impact of the title sponsorship being handed out for no cash (this was not free - payment was just not in cash).

Unfortunately this did not come to fruition, whether that is the RFL Commercial Team's incompetence, or a really tough market, or whatever, we don't know, but it was a bold strategy which unfortunately did not come off.

Instead of bringing in new sponsors, the game has lost sponsor after sponsor this year - William Hill, DeWalt, Emirates to name a few.

I don't think the strategy was necessarily wrong, it makes sense to spread out your reliance on sponsors, but the fact is that RL as a sport does not have the likes of Investment Bankers and Insurance Companies lined up to sponsor us.

I wouldn't accept an RFL Commercial role for £1m per year - you are on a hiding to nothing.

FWIW - personally I'd take a sponsorship from a betting company, or alcohol.

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It was widely reported that the Engage deal was £1.2 million per year...

And was - according to the Telegraph article linked to - lower than that offered by 888.com.

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Are you Mr Wood's personal apologist??

In the top three spectator team sports in the UK and the second most watched team sport on the major dedicated sports channel in the UK...

By your reckoning any sport in the UK other than soccer is "small time" but i do not see many giving away the title rights to their elite competiton for some poor , inefficient marketing "campaign".

The RFL and its member clubs that have supported its decisions and the direction it has taken the game have made their own beds i am afraid.

If RL was as well placed as you claim, the money would be rolling in from sponsors. Get real, there's Football, RU, Cricket, Golf, F1, Tennis miles ahead of us in the queue for the shrinking pot of money available from sponsors.

I have no access to the real amount offered by Betfair and if it was as large as you claim, then I will be the first in the queue to be calling them idiots. But we don't know and I would be genuinely surprised if they, and the clubs, turned down so much hard cash. I'd also like to know where these mega sponsorship deals were in the past because they don't seem to have existed but people now suddenly demand the earth or else?

The Stobart deal hasn't worked out like they hoped so they are sacking it. It didn't but it could have worked. Some people were very vocal on twitter etc that 'you don't give away things like that'. Well generally no but sometimes such tactics work. The top selling mags today are Nuts & Zoo. I remember one of these mags printed and distributed a million, that's one million, copies free upon launching the mag. Working in the print industry I know that wasn't cheap, yet it worked and worked bloody well

Look at the Xmas book market. All the top 'celebs' are selling their books half price or less etc. Don't they know you shouldn't sell yourself short? Or maybe the publishers know the market is struggling and act accordingly.

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If RL was as well placed as you claim, the money would be rolling in from sponsors. Get real, there's Football, RU, Cricket, Golf, F1, Tennis miles ahead of us in the queue for the shrinking pot of money available from sponsors.

And that is the black and white of it.

One area where I do think we may have stitched ourselves up somewhat is around the ethics of sponsorship. This is mentioned in the Telegraph article, and seems to have been a move since Lewis took over. We have avoided things like alcohol and gambling as major sponsors. Personally I would take these sponsorship deals.

Most sports have deals with Alcohol companies - RL now does not have an official beer (although Magners do sponsor many clubs). Nobody looks down at the Heineken Cup because of it's association to lager.

Gambling is a slightly more contentious one due to some of the betting scandals knocking round sport, but then we should not forget that it is a perfectly legal activity in this country.

I can understand the approach, but I do think it leaves us in a more difficult position than many sports now, when tbh we are already well behind these sports in the queue.

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Agree with that Dave. Principles are fine but they don't pay the bills. And as you say, there's nothing illegal there.

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I think the thing the RFL hung their hat on was that Betfair wanted complete coverage, naming rights, goal post coverings etc etc.. and the RFL thought they could make more by keeping all those elements seperate.. and when it came to selling those rights, they quite simply couldn't

Theres an interview on http://www.runningrugby.com with the new RFL marketing guy James Mercer. Well worth a look.

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What should happen, in an ideal world, is that the franchises should be issued according to very strict rules and codes of conduct; any franchisee that broke them would automatically lose their franchise. This assumes a line of people queuing up to take over said franchises and could possibly be where the theory falls down.

I agree with that, but I do not see that the the theory breaks down. Rather, I see it that the RFL side of the deal needs to do better.

The RFL should in my view set, police and regulate the standards, which it very much does already. the comparison is say the Subway franchise..each one stands or falls by its compliance with the standards and by its own individual performance within that....but all within a strong and consistent framework that drives business (or fans) -strategic and tactical marketing, sales etc across the whole piece. I think the RFL have a long way to go in this but each year they are getting better.

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And that is the black and white of it.

One area where I do think we may have stitched ourselves up somewhat is around the ethics of sponsorship. This is mentioned in the Telegraph article, and seems to have been a move since Lewis took over. We have avoided things like alcohol and gambling as major sponsors. Personally I would take these sponsorship deals.

Most sports have deals with Alcohol companies - RL now does not have an official beer (although Magners do sponsor many clubs). Nobody looks down at the Heineken Cup because of it's association to lager.

Gambling is a slightly more contentious one due to some of the betting scandals knocking round sport, but then we should not forget that it is a perfectly legal activity in this country.

I can understand the approach, but I do think it leaves us in a more difficult position than many sports now, when tbh we are already well behind these sports in the queue.

Agree with that Dave. Principles are fine but they don't pay the bills. And as you say, there's nothing illegal there.

Spot on both of you..

Why the RFL took its "ethical/altruistic" stance when it is governing a mainly working class sport is incomprehensible and has proved costly..

We used to be sponsored upto the eye balls with six sponsored tournaments , heavily sponsored internationals etc but we were in partnership with companies who had something to gain i.e the beer and cigarette companies and the like. We need some realism with regards the basis of our game.

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I think the thing the RFL hung their hat on was that Betfair wanted complete coverage, naming rights, goal post coverings etc etc.. and the RFL thought they could make more by keeping all those elements seperate.. and when it came to selling those rights, they quite simply couldn't

Theres an interview on http://www.runningrugby.com with the new RFL marketing guy James Mercer. Well worth a look.

That would be a reasonable stance I reckon. If someone offered a million quid for all the areas that could be sold separately for £1.5M, it would not be unreasonable to hold out for the separate deals. That these separate deals don't materialize is another argument.

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We used to be sponsored upto the eye balls with six sponsored tournaments , heavily sponsored internationals etc but we were in partnership with companies who had something to gain i.e the beer and cigarette companies and the like. We need some realism with regards the basis of our game.

I'd definitely agree with the realism bit but we shouldn't assume all (or even most) RL fans are woodbine smoking bitter drinkers. But at the same time not pretend we're all city types or middle class.

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We used to be sponsored upto the eye balls with six sponsored tournaments ,

And yet the game went bust.

Perhaps those deals were worth jack all.

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We used to be sponsored upto the eye balls with six sponsored tournaments , heavily sponsored internationals etc but we were in partnership with companies who had something to gain i.e the beer and cigarette companies and the like. We need some realism with regards the basis of our game.

Two of our tournaments had to drop their sponsor - Silk Cut and Regal were no longer legal sponsors. Other tournaments were scrapped. We had 5 title sponsors this year (Carnegie, Stobart, Co-Op, Northern Rail, Heinz)/

You could easily argue that recently we were 'sponsored up to the eyeballs':

engage

Irn Bru

Heinz

ISC

Steeden

Valvoline

Co-Operative

Gillette

Polar

Northern Rail

Sky Sports

BBC

Premier Sports

Carnegie

DeWalt

William Hill

Emirates

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Theres an interview on http://www.runningrugby.com with the new RFL marketing guy James Mercer. Well worth a look.

Requires registration, which while free probably has a lot of faff and is for those involved in rugby. Naymind.

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Company A offers money to sponsor SL

Company B offers to put some posters on the side of their trucks but no money

Hmmm let me think, i'm running a business thats short of money, I know i'll take company B sponsorship !

Enough said about the financial competence of the current Red Hall set up !!!

Blame the clubs for that not the RFL.

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Still yet to be seen what the impact of the Stobart deal is... next year we may secure 2 x, 3x or 4x what a paid sponsorship for 2012 would have got, it was a gamble to promote the brand, we'll just have to see if it pays off

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And yet the game went bust.

Perhaps those deals were worth jack all.

Sorry mate when the did the game go bust...??? I must have been asleep for a few years or do you mean the last few years with at least five Elite level clubs in danger of going under. If your thinking pre SL I think you may be confusing the Wigan club of Maurice Lindsay ,that made millionaires out of quite a few people, with the game as a whole.

When i get the opportunity i will upload some accounts from the early 1980's that show my club making a profit of over £270,000 pounds. Whats the equivalent now?? Million plus certainly...never gonna happen under the current model of operation. Staff costs alone for a modern SL club are off the scale compared to a few years ago. SL has become one big trough...

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@hindiexiii

its quite interesting really.. they don't bombard you with emails or anything. worth the registration

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