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flyingking

Super League teams to discuss 2 tier SL with P+R

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So what's the difference between a 2 tier Super League and Super League + Championship? Other than P+R?

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My only problem with stories like these is we only hear from the 'haves', a whiff of NIMBY-ism matched with I'm Alright Jack. I remember McManus from St Helens saying similar about reducing the league. I doubt Warrington would've been so supportive 10 years ago, for example.

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Our long lost friend Wendall - Posts.

Casual Postman of Orford says...

10:44am Fri 26 Oct 12

Spot on two divisions of ten, get two more French clubs in there and top 5 play off with promotion and relegation from SL2.

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My only problem with stories like these is we only hear from the 'haves', a whiff of NIMBY-ism matched with I'm Alright Jack. I remember McManus from St Helens saying similar about reducing the league. I doubt Warrington would've been so supportive 10 years ago, for example.

Yes it suits the 10 better clubs, but clubs are trying to address issues for the good of the game!!

Play off crowds are down *, doesn't make our game look attractive - That's without talking of clubs in money crisis or poor stadiums etc etc

* versus regular season games

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If we had 20 clubs capable of moving between divisions with nobody falling foul of current minimum standards all well and good, but we haven't so I don't see the point in discussing it uless they are going to scrap minimum standards.

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Surely the Championship clubs should get some sort of say seeing as they maybe involved?

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Why is there an infatuation with promotion and relegation?

Why would you split the top league just to satisy that? In splitting the Super League would we have 10 teams in the top league, 10 in the second, and the rest of the clubs making up the Championships?

If so, what is really the point?

Have those who want a return to promotion and relegation thought that in doing this the changes would only really be a smokescreen because, presumably, there would be no p&r between the second division and the Championship clubs below it?

Currently Sky's television deal is to show 14 clubs throughout the season; what happens if we extend it to 20, even though many people are saying the current format needs reducing to 12?

How do we sustain 20 clubs in two divisions if we there is a question mark over how the governing body is sustaining one league of 14?

So many questions...

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So what's the difference between a 2 tier Super League and Super League + Championship? Other than P+R?

Central funding and criteria I'd guess.

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Wait, I've got it: we need to split Super League into Super League and Super Duper League. That would sort it.

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On funding, I would hazard a guess that we already have around 10 clubs who could meet, say a 2m salary cap, with reduced Sky money, and another 10 who could meet a 1m salary cap, with (in the case of current championship clubs) more Sky money.

Insofar as this allows Fax, Fev, Leigh, Sheff, Cumbrians etc a place in SL2, then I would welcome it with open arms.

If you take Wigan, Leeds and Wire, say, as organisations they are poles apart from Cas, London and Fev, who in turn are poles apart from Skolars, Gateshead and South Wales - I hope that is uncontroversial.

The position these clubs take will vary over time, and so we need the possibility of moving up and down. Currently, it seems to me there is very little in terms of potential between the bottom 4 in SL and the top 6 in the Champioship. Certainly very little that an even spread of Sky money would not smooth over.

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Bleedin ridiculous. What on earth for. Can we keep some things the same. When are we going to use helmets and the cricket bats then?

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Is this not the first (or maybe another) salvo about preparing for a smaller SL?

"Oh yes, this will be great if Sky, the SL clubs and the CC clubs support it"

"However, we can't afford that right now so how about a 12 club SL as a first step along that road and send Cas and HKR into the Championship to help boost that level with a view to attaining the 2 x 10 teams SL in the future"

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This is the change we need. John Kear was talking about this a few years ago, and it's good to see it gathering momentum. The difference here is that you have two divisions of full-time professionals and then a semi-pro tier.

Our best players would be under much more pressure week in, week out, and clubs like Wakey would be able to be more competitive in SL2. Too many of our top players, know that they can be some way below their best and still end up on the winning side if they're playing the likes of Wakey, Cas, Salford & Widnes.

With a salary cap of say £2m for SL1 and £1.5m for SL2, the gap between the two wouldn't be massive and clubs could step up, or move down without having to completely start again. That's the big problem with the old system. For those going down, all contracts became null & void, and those going up had to recruit a new team within a few months.

Key to ensure there is a tight control on "non-federation" players, to ensure clubs in SL2 don't just pack their squads with run around Aussies and Kiwis, rather than home grown players.

A franchise system for clubs wanting to join SL2 should be in place to ensure the downside of the old P&R system weren't just replicated but shoved down a tier.

Be good if they could get this in place for the 2015 season.

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Bleedin ridiculous. What on earth for. Can we keep some things the same. When are we going to use helmets and the cricket bats then?

Not long since the cricketers split their league into 2 small divisions of 9 each.

Has it increased crowds ? Doubt it.

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Wait, I've got it: we need to split Super League into Super League and Super Duper League. That would sort it.

Slight error. It's actually Super Duper League and Stoopid League.

And it's watched by sheeple.

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Leave the number of SL sides the same, decrease the playoff numbers, and although relegation isn't an option, make it clear to the clubs that finish bottom that they would have to fulfill the other main criteria to retain their licenses.

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Leave the number of SL sides the same, decrease the playoff numbers, and although relegation isn't an option, make it clear to the clubs that finish bottom that they would have to fulfill the other main criteria to retain their licenses.

So they're not being relegated but they lose their licence if they don't fulfil the criteria ?

What the hell does that mean ?

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If we had 20 clubs capable of moving between divisions with nobody falling foul of current minimum standards all well and good, but we haven't so I don't see the point in discussing it uless they are going to scrap minimum standards.

I thought it was a stunning suggestion.

Only one thing missing.....

Any detail at all :rolleyes:

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This is the change we need. John Kear was talking about this a few years ago, and it's good to see it gathering momentum. The difference here is that you have two divisions of full-time professionals and then a semi-pro tier.

Our best players would be under much more pressure week in, week out, and clubs like Wakey would be able to be more competitive in SL2. Too many of our top players, know that they can be some way below their best and still end up on the winning side if they're playing the likes of Wakey, Cas, Salford & Widnes.

With a salary cap of say £2m for SL1 and £1.5m for SL2, the gap between the two wouldn't be massive and clubs could step up, or move down without having to completely start again. That's the big problem with the old system. For those going down, all contracts became null & void, and those going up had to recruit a new team within a few months.

Key to ensure there is a tight control on "non-federation" players, to ensure clubs in SL2 don't just pack their squads with run around Aussies and Kiwis, rather than home grown players.

A franchise system for clubs wanting to join SL2 should be in place to ensure the downside of the old P&R system weren't just replicated but shoved down a tier.

Be good if they could get this in place for the 2015 season.

If the RFL can get the necessary funding from Sky then I think this is pretty much spot on as the way forward.

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There are many problems in the game that need sorting before changing SL or increasing its numbers. Right now SL is a short sighted competition that has low standards and intensity. A quality player will just stagnate in SL whilst in the NRL they cant afford to do it as theres somebody ready to take their spot in most cases. SL should be more than just about the first team. ALL teams in SL should run U23, U21, U18s. If you cant afford to run academy teams then you dont deserve to be in SL. Whats the point of SL if the finances are not there to properly develop things? I would rather SL have less clubs, who can afford to do things properly at various levels on and off the pitch than increase SL and have even more teams that really cant afford to be full time and run a number of academy sides. The Championship should be for teams that simply cant run a fulltime setup. Even then the development of players should still be strong with the top Championship League seeing sides again featuring U23s, U21s and U18s. Having a system where young players can gradually progress and be educated is vital for me. Strength in depth is simply not there at most SL teams and that often is down to poor standards at academy level and not having the money to do things properly. I see that often the English/British school kids often beat the Aussies when playing against each other. But then many just simply dont push on and the Aussie kids have a system that allows them to improve and most eventually play in the NRL. The thinking at SL level has for me to change from just concentrating on the first team to thinking about the future regarding youngsters. There is no point having SL increase if the quality and the right infrastructure not just at first team level but at academy level is missing. I would love Halifax my club to be in SL. But realistically it doesnt belong their right now under the system in place. I wouldnt want them in SL 2 if they cant afford it and do things properly. I am very happy to see Fax as well as Fev & Sheffield run academy sides as for me thats a vital structure of a club. The short term thinking of SL clubs and the RFL is a disgrace and England will simply slip even further behind the Aussies in the future.

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Not long since the cricketers split their league into 2 small divisions of 9 each.

Has it increased crowds ? Doubt it.

Just to be clear, the County Championship was split into divisions in 2000 to increase the intensity to better produce test cricketers, and nothing to do with attendances. In 2003 the Twenty20 format was invented to increase crowds, replacing one of the one-day competitions. Arguably both changes were successful in their aims.

In both short forms of the game, which are the money makers for the counties, teams are divided into three equal groups (regional for Twenty20, and by an annual random drawn for one-day) that only meet in the playoffs.

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So what's the difference between a 2 tier Super League and Super League + Championship? Other than P+R?

A two tier Super League will allow the RFL to ask teams that are close together to amalgamate.

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