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Old Frightful

Wales v England, Wrexham. 27/10/2012 K.O. 2.30pm

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Anyone questioning the internationals should get all the tweets I've got from Scotland squad members. Despite losing both games they've all thoroughly enjoyed the experience.

We have to keep going and show some faith in International RL. Considering that the sport itrself demands (and gets) 100% commitment on the field, never giving up etc. we seem to be very brittle when it comes to sticking with something that doesn't immediately become a raging success.

If a team went 12-0 down after 10 minutes and walked off the field because they couldn't win we'd be rightly disgusted....

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Instead of trashtalking Iestyn Harris over the Wales performance, English fans should be bigging up their own team ... it oozed confidence and that can be vital in a game against NZ or Australia. It was also clinical in its finishing power.

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A SL standard team playing a mainly U20/Championship standard team. Not surprising the result look many results in the cup featuring Sl v Championship teams. The problem is most of the Welsh lads are academy and championship players. England were ALL SL players. The fitness and quality is obviously going to come through. But the problem is not going to improve- in fact I think it will get worse! The SL clubs once again think only of themselves. They get rid of the U20s and dont see how important having academy and reserve grade is not just for them but the game as a whole. If every SL Club was forced to have U23, U20, U18 then there would be more chances for a Welsh born guy to come through the system and be properly trained. Even if he is not a first grader he would be getting near full time training.The future for a Welsh born youngster to get a place at a SL club is very bleak. The SL clubs should have the Overseas quota dropped to 1. This would give maybe some of the welsh guys a chance to play regular SL rugby instead of just being farmed out to a championship club like Danny Fleming or stuck in reserve grade. The game for me has to see decisions taken away from the clubs who rightly only vote for their benefit instead of seeing what damage their selfishness can do. If we want to have a Strong Wales/France/London then we have to upset the heartland clubs or clubs that want only what they want. Sl Clubs whether they like it or not play an important role not just in Englands National Team, but others as well. If the game wants a stronger International Scene away from NZ and Australia then for me the RFL needs to take hold of the game and make decisions that benefit the game as a whole especially Internationally and not allow the clubs to just be so selfish.

The Welsh no doubt gave everything and people forget how tough playing RL is especially against 2 Nations that have most or all of their squad playing in SL and have way more experience. I am sure even the heritage players are very proud to be playing for Wales. But the people running the game need to help them as much as possible. Getting smashed 80-12 hurts but if its a one off then people wont read too much in to it. However if its a 60 plus beating whenever Wales play England then it is no good. I sincerely hope Wales improve, especially for the WC but sadly cant see it happening

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and true to form Chris Irvine felt he had to join in slagging the RL event off.

This is because, and I don't want to labour the point, of the essential ######tardness of many who claim to support RL.

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I think England played really well and by and large the series has served its purpose so far, better for all the players to have a run out than not. The moaners will never be happy whatever formula is given them, been hearing the doom and grumbles for 37 years. The game's in much better health than when I started watching it.

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This game, lets be honest, wasn't much cop as a contest. But it has done more good than the players being on holiday.

I can only dream that it somehow affects the Aussie side who will not have been really together for 2 years come the WC.

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This game, lets be honest, wasn't much cop as a contest. But it has done more good than the players being on holiday.

I can only dream that it somehow affects the Aussie side who will not have been really together for 2 years come the WC.

Problem is Australias spine know eachothers game far too well. Slater Cronk and Smith are togetheer all season for melbourne, and Thurston can join in for fun as he does in origin. These 4 players are the difference between the sides. They get there forwards on the front foot and people start slating our forwards saying 'we said we could match the aussies in the forwards and time and time again we don't' this isn't true its because their half backs are a class apart. We do need to find a 6 and 7 combination to go with Tomkins and Roby and get them to know eachother well enough, problem is we keep swapping them about and when it comes to the big games they are out of ideas.

The game has been criticised, some of it fairly and some of it just trolling on the internet. But I don't know of any other suggestions which we could of played this winter. Wales were poor yes, but they will learn and come back stronger next year with more talent. I think people are making too big a fuss of the crowds, this next year is all about preparation for the 2013 WC. If we win the WC RL will get a lot of publicity, the media are very quick to publicise success, just look at how much coverage cycling got when Wiggins won or when the cricket test side got to world number one. Yes the crowds need to be good for the WC next year, but there will obviously be more effort put into marketing and selling the game next year.

I think we should have a 3 game exile series next year and do whatever we can to get the NRL players in the side, first two games should be about determining the strongest side and third game we should have our strongest 17 selected and let them build up abit of chemistry together. The most important position as I say is 6 and 7. We really need to get them sorted. The backline will pick themselves based on form. I'm starting to think Sinfield may have to be an option, fair enough he won't be a threat in attack but I think we have enough threat on the edges with strike players like Tomkins, Hock, Watkins and Burgess who could burst through the Aussie line. With him at 7 and Widdop at 6 I think we could have a decent half back combination as we have pretty much all aspects covered and if they know eachothers games enough and build up chemistry then we might stand a chance.

I was impressed with England yesterday and a lot of positive can be took from it. The crowd is irrelevant IMO as we are preparing for a massive year for the sport in the 2013 WC. We can let people write what they want on twitter ect but at the end of the day the game would of been slated no matter what the result. We have a lot of build up too next year, but I do think we have a chance next year we just have to back ourselves.

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This is because, and I don't want to labour the point, of the essential ######tardness of many who claim to support RL.

:biggrin: well put!

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Gareth Walker, despite being at an event nothing to do with RL (NFL @ Wembley) still felt he had to be negative about the England Wales game. And this bloke is a so called RL fan and journo.

What did he say?

I must have turned it off by then.

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Nothing to complain about in Dave Hadfields article in the independent today.

Correctly focussed on the selection dilemma for the next game.

Good to see we have this problem in rugby. It occupies most of the stories printed about other sports so why not us?

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Nothing to complain about in Dave Hadfields article in the independent today.

Correctly focussed on the selection dilemma for the next game.

Good to see we have this problem in rugby. It occupies most of the stories printed about other sports so why not us?

Similar article in the Guardian

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/oct/28/england-wales-rugby-league

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aye, he's a gud 'un! underwhelming Autumn International Series

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aye, he's a gud 'un! underwhelming Autumn International Series

Aye, I'd not read the whole thing through when posting

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in my view, it wasn't a bad article at all. Just the odd throwaway snide remark. It must be a miserable "Mrs feckin Browns Boys" existence being a journo. Riley tweeted, "Can't see the benefit of this fixture or series really. And I love the game."

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I do - fans want to watch games where results are in doubt

If Chelmsford United played a full Strength Arsenal team at home in the F.A. cup what percentage of regular Chelmsford fans would watch the game? How many casual fans and neutrals would attend ? Would the crowd be significantly below the typical attendance ?

The bigger the opposition generally speaking the larger the crowd. Fans of sport go watch games for a number of reasons, most games the result is believed to be fairly predicatble in the footballing codes. So belief a game is close will have less impact than many other factors.

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The view of the Aussies 10 years or so ago was that England/GB were so far behind that it wasn't worth bothering with. Fortunately Richard Lewis stuck to his guns and conjured up one way or another for us to play them. We've improved since then, maybe not enough - we'll see next November.

Are you sure about this. The last Ashes series was 3:0 but Australia struggled in each of the tests with winning margins of 4,3 and 6. That compares very favourably with results since then. The previous ashes in england was won 2:1 by Australia. England/GB depth has improved but arguably performances have not and neither have the results.

The present international scene is far from ideal but it's an awful lot better than it was in 2000, and with the constraints there are in rugby league, it's probably the best we can get at the moment. A successful World Cup next year is the next big opportunity to change the landscape in a significant way.

In terms of who is playing and development of players in existing and new regions it has improved remarkably. At elite level thebbig 3 is still the big 3 (with England/GB having slipped behind) but no team looks like challenging the big 3 any time soon. What would help is more professional competitions (NRL is producing a large number of players for various teams). The biggest impact from the world cup might be players in the developing nations being picked up by SL or NRL clubs.

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As soon as the game ended I took to Twitter, I assume like many, to find many negative messages from people involved with the sport. To others, it may come across that if the sport's representatives are saying that it is embarrassing, why should they take the time to indulge in the game's international scene.

I know the scoreline isn't ideal but it was going to go one of two ways: England win convincingly as they did and people slate the international game; or, Wales put in a good show and people slate England.

Big scorelines happen in all sports; Widnes were on the end of some this season, San Marino are often trounced in the football qualifers, New England smashed St Louis at Wembley etc.

Why are we not saying, 'well played England on a big win' and 'commiserations Wales, keep growing and developing, don't be too downbeat, and good luck'?

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In everything we do in life there is good - bad; right - wrong, positive - negative, black - white, etc, and sport is just one of those aspects of life. If the politically correct people have their way all we would hear is the good, the positive, etc, but any coach will tell you that it is the bad or the negatives that they want players to concentrate on if they want to be better players, i.e. practice your weaker points rather than what you are good at.

It's the same with comments on matches if everyone only made positive comments then the powers that be think that they are doing everything correctly and nothing would change. The old saying of "if you always do what you always did you will always get what you always got" couldn't be truer. If some people are not impressed with what they saw at a match then they are just as entitled to say so as those with the opposite view. It doesn't mean either is correct but at least it shows that some people can see perceived faults at times that may need correcting.

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But the negative comments NEVER add anything

If we listened to them we'd be playing RU

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In everything we do in life there is good - bad; right - wrong, positive - negative, black - white, etc, and sport is just one of those aspects of life. If the politically correct people have their way all we would hear is the good, the positive, etc, but any coach will tell you that it is the bad or the negatives that they want players to concentrate on if they want to be better players, i.e. practice your weaker points rather than what you are good at.

It's the same with comments on matches if everyone only made positive comments then the powers that be think that they are doing everything correctly and nothing would change. The old saying of "if you always do what you always did you will always get what you always got" couldn't be truer. If some people are not impressed with what they saw at a match then they are just as entitled to say so as those with the opposite view. It doesn't mean either is correct but at least it shows that some people can see perceived faults at times that may need correcting.

The problem we have is that 'The Enemy Within' as I like to call them often take great pleasure, going out of their way to slate the game they supposedly support.

Often it is just general criticism, rather than specific things which need discussing.

If people are so disillusioned and unhappy with the game, then I genuinely think the game would be better off without them, as rather some people feel the need to shout to anyone who will listen how bad the game is, often with the words 'farce, joke etc' included.

Why would a RL journalist for example feel the need to use an NFL event he is at at Wembley to criticise a RL event?

There appears to be an addiction by some people who are supposedly supporters of the game to criticise it as publicly as possible as often as possible.

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The problem we have is that 'The Enemy Within' as I like to call them often take great pleasure, going out of their way to slate the game they supposedly support.

Often it is just general criticism, rather than specific things which need discussing.

If people are so disillusioned and unhappy with the game, then I genuinely think the game would be better off without them, as rather some people feel the need to shout to anyone who will listen how bad the game is, often with the words 'farce, joke etc' included.

Why would a RL journalist for example feel the need to use an NFL event he is at at Wembley to criticise a RL event?

There appears to be an addiction by some people who are supposedly supporters of the game to criticise it as publicly as possible as often as possible.

Exactly right. There are people involved in the game, and even worse who make their living off the back of it, who take great pride in doing it down at every opportunity. It's amazing that RL is still going given the opposition to it.

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Similar article in the Guardian

http://www.guardian....es-rugby-league

In response to some extracts I've taken from this article (I'm bored at work):

The Rugby Football League has been working to provide more meaningful competition in the northern hemisphere for more than a decade, and the controversial inclusion of the Celtic Crusaders in an expanded Super League back in 2009 was a determined attempt to revive the Wales national team. But this was a depressing indication of how far there is to go.

Why is it depressing? This can only be Andy Wilson's opinion but to me if means that we can now genuinly appraise the Welsh after their 4 and 3Nations tournament inclusions.

In doing so, Wales can then map out a plan of action heading into next year's world cup and for the immediate future. Who is to say that they won't be beating France, for instance, regularly in 4/5 years time? With time to build, on the back of two Championship clubs who are bringing through young Welsh lads and the experience of the world cup, it could act as a springboard for them.

For me that is a positive, not depressing.

The outgunned underdogs, only one of whom – the captain Craig Kopczak – would be an automatic choice at a Super League club, gave their all, and when the Castleford forward Dan Fleming shrugged off Gareth Hock for their second try early in the second half, a scoreline of 12-32 was reasonably respectable. But conceding eight tries in little more than half an hour was downright embarrassing, both for Wales and international rugby league.

Andy's first point is fair enough, but isn't changing that stat something to aspire to? The more Welsh players that come through, the more chance we have of seeing them play regular Super League and in turn we may see an improved Welsh national team.

Some people within the game will look at the scoreline and see it as an embarrassment. It wasn't ideal but as I've said in other threads, a big win was expected for England. However, big scores happen in all sports and yet they still go out there a week later and give it another go. Obviously we want to showcase our very best, but we must recognise that people outside of the RL fraternity will come across our worst as well, just like football, Union, cricket etc.

But the greatest lesson from this tournament, as well as the need to give Wales and France every possible further assistance over the next 12 months, may well be the need to continue arranging mid-season matches for England against the Exiles team drawn from the overseas players employed in the Super League.

Yes, let's continue with that and hopefully it'll prove to be very worthwhile. For Wales, get them in a tournament with France, Scotland, Ireland and the Knights so that we have regular competitive matches to help improve standards and intensity. Something like that.

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Whilst its hard to draw any comfort from the scoreline, what exactly were some people expecting? That the Welsh team had been hiding a load of world class players somewhere?

Why the surprise? Has there ever been a time when Wales has produced top class Rugby *League* players? So its obvious that they have had to start at the bottom but they shouldn't give up because if they stick at it they will get somewhere.

What would the score have been in say, 1992, in an England-Wales game......featuring only RL players and not union converts? Assuming they could field a side, I bet it would be possibly a larger score.

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