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JohnM

England v France 3rd Nov

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scrumhalf    25

In 1982 and 1985 there were around 5-10 full-time players in England and none in France. In 2013 there are around 260 full-time players in England and around 20 in France. Yeah, they should be hammering us. HTH

the fact is we are not producing enough quality players to beat the southern hemispere teams. I suggest we embark on a selective breeding programme along the lines of horse racing. we take our top players and put them out to stud........... :D

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I hate to say this, as I think that when he concentrates on playing he's one of our best forwards, but unless something can be done about his discipline there's no way Hock can be in a team against the Aussies. He's easily wound up as things stand now and oh boy! will the Aussies be winding!

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Ant    432

I dunno, they are also pretty easy to wind up too.

Stick him in and lets see some proper biff, the Aussies never seem to know what to do after a good dustup

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Exiled Wiganer    1,991

Well, I enjoyed it (I sometimes wonder whether I am in a small minority in enjoying the vast majority of games I watch). For mine, the last 2 weeks have shown that Watkins is more than ready. I also thought Sinny has played really well the last 2 weeks. Perhaps Widdop could play 7?

I hope we see more of Hardaker next week - could he play in the centres with Watkins?

I know I have previous in bigging him up, but I agree that Mossop could have been MoM.

Hock usually does more good things than bad.

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Ant    432

I also enjoyed the game for the most part, my criticism - or rather perfectionism comes from wanting to see us win next year

Sinny played ok, his leadership is more important than anything else

Tomkins tried too hard I think, and with Hardacre waiting to take that 1 shirt it's good times but Tomkins I think still add more in attack

Myler isn't the player to partner Sinny I'm afraid, I like him but we need a better kicking game than Myler has

McIlorum is not the hooker we want to go with, sorry but he hasn't impressed me

Watkins and Cudjoe looked ok, both worked hard and protected their wingers and did good stuff off the ball but with lots of real competition they need to be on fire every game I think.

Hall & Charnley are world class wingers and no mistake

In the forwards we have an embarrassment of riches - which means I doubt we will are Ablett, JJB or Wilkin near the full strength England squad - none of who are better than the back rows in the Knights, our props however are the business and so, with a bit of luck we will truly be able to pick a world class pack, more than one in fact!

So far this series had produced some entertaining games and more importantly is really allowing England RL to gell and look like a team.

I'm already getting excited for RLWC2013

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Dave T    5,092

I also enjoyed the game for the most part, my criticism - or rather perfectionism comes from wanting to see us win next year

Sinny played ok, his leadership is more important than anything else

Tomkins tried too hard I think, and with Hardacre waiting to take that 1 shirt it's good times but Tomkins I think still add more in attack

Myler isn't the player to partner Sinny I'm afraid, I like him but we need a better kicking game than Myler has

McIlorum is not the hooker we want to go with, sorry but he hasn't impressed me

Watkins and Cudjoe looked ok, both worked hard and protected their wingers and did good stuff off the ball but with lots of real competition they need to be on fire every game I think.

Hall & Charnley are world class wingers and no mistake

In the forwards we have an embarrassment of riches - which means I doubt we will are Ablett, JJB or Wilkin near the full strength England squad - none of who are better than the back rows in the Knights, our props however are the business and so, with a bit of luck we will truly be able to pick a world class pack, more than one in fact!

So far this series had produced some entertaining games and more importantly is really allowing England RL to gell and look like a team.

I'm already getting excited for RLWC2013

on the kicking point, no way shoud Myler be dropped due to his kicking game. Pretty much every team has 1 kicker. Why do England need to be different?

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Ant    432

Because most teams have 2 kickers and the likes of Aus, Queensland and NZ have 3

With most kicking going through Sinfield it makes our kicking game easy to read and as good as he is he lacks the real attacking accuracy of the likes of Thurston

Myler just isn't the right option for Sinfield

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Ant    432

Because most teams have 2 kickers and the likes of Aus, Queensland and NZ have 3

With most kicking going through Sinfield it makes our kicking game easy to read and as good as he is he lacks the real attacking accuracy of the likes of Thurston

Myler just isn't the right option for Sinfield

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ShotgunGold    36

It would help if le Catalans didn't pack the team the foreign players like Webb and Anderson.

Not really Catalans fault is it, I think I'm right in saying they provide more to their national team than any other Super League team do.

They need a second SL team the French do. I don't see why it has to be Toulouse either if we are admitting small towns like Widnes and Wakefield in then we should admit Carcassonne in as well. They would make a great second French team.

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RSN    678

Because most teams have 2 kickers and the likes of Aus, Queensland and NZ have 3

With most kicking going through Sinfield it makes our kicking game easy to read and as good as he is he lacks the real attacking accuracy of the likes of Thurston

Myler just isn't the right option for Sinfield

I do have to agree. Aus have Cronk Thurston and Smiths who's all kicking games are equally as good and Sinfields whilst all are brilliants passers and ball players.

I think Tomkins or Roby needs to develop a kicking game to accompany Widdop and Brough/Sinfield in the halves.

(Don't get too vocal about needing a kicking game though, Wilkin will be made captain before you know it)

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Wakefield Ram    291

Think the worrying thing is how many of the England team would get into the Australian team?

Ryan Hall, Gareth Ellis, James Graham.....

From the NRL games this season, we don't look anywhere near good enough to challenge for the World Cup. That Sinfield has to play out of position to fill a half back shortage just shows how weak we are. Andy Farrell switched to half back for GB twenty years ago and that didn't work either. Maybe I am being too harsh, but France looked very slow and pedestrian and England were not much better.

We seem to lack world class players.

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Dave T    5,092

We dont need to worry about how many of our players would get into the Aussie team.

We need to keep our heads down, work as hard as we can to improve and be the best we can.

If the Aussies are better than us then so be it.

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Dave T    5,092

Because most teams have 2 kickers and the likes of Aus, Queensland and NZ have 3

With most kicking going through Sinfield it makes our kicking game easy to read and as good as he is he lacks the real attacking accuracy of the likes of Thurston

Myler just isn't the right option for Sinfield

Leeds play with one key kicker, so do Wire, it works for them.

Those Aussie players are not picked cos they can kick, thats a bonus. You only really need 1.

Ive been pleased with Myler and Sinfields link play. Getting the ball out to the talent like Hall, Tomkins, Watkins and Briscoe is the key for me.

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RSN    678

Think the worrying thing is how many of the England team would get into the Australian team?

Ryan Hall, Gareth Ellis, James Graham.....

From the NRL games this season, we don't look anywhere near good enough to challenge for the World Cup. That Sinfield has to play out of position to fill a half back shortage just shows how weak we are. Andy Farrell switched to half back for GB twenty years ago and that didn't work either. Maybe I am being too harsh, but France looked very slow and pedestrian and England were not much better.

We seem to lack world class players.

Burgess, Hall, Westwood, Hock, Ellis, Graham all could argue a place. The Aussies seemed incapable of tackling Crabtree and Robinson when they last played them. Luke Burgess seemed to easily compete in the NRL, and he was a worse player than Mossop, Harrison Morley Carvell and than Hill is now. If you put Tomkins in the Aus team would he do significantly less damage than Slater arguably not. Briscoe could be better than Aussie winger in a years time, Uate was playing for Aus last time we played them and he was gash during origin. Reed seems to compete in the NRL just fine. Then Watkins seems to have just 'it' he may be a good match with an injury free season under his belt. 9 6 and 7 they outclass us but that's the big difference IMO even though our number 6 plays with their 7 and 9 every week and doesn't look out of place.. We can beat them they arnt bloody supermen but we need to step upto there intensity level and we have lots of players capable. Although we were poor today.

Tbh your point seems very irrelevant as I'd of put 4 kiwi players in the Aus team which won the world cup, that's being generous also.

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RSN    678

Leeds play with one key kicker, so do Wire, it works for them.

Those Aussie players are not picked cos they can kick, thats a bonus. You only really need 1.

Ive been pleased with Myler and Sinfields link play. Getting the ball out to the talent like Hall, Tomkins, Watkins and Briscoe is the key for me.

SL level and international level are very different.

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Viking Warrior    257

Not really Catalans fault is it, I think I'm right in saying they provide more to their national team than any other Super League team do.

They need a second SL team the French do. I don't see why it has to be Toulouse either if we are admitting small towns like Widnes and Wakefield in then we should admit Carcassonne in as well. They would make a great second French team.

what would a second french team achieve? another retirement home for antipodeans thats what!!

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boxhead    158

I dunno, they are also pretty easy to wind up too.

Stick him in and lets see some proper biff, the Aussies never seem to know what to do after a good dustup

Never noticed that before when GB/England have come out dirty or put a stink on.

That should be England's game plan if it has worked in the past.

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Lobbygobbler    204

I enjoyed the game far more than an Exiles game. We need to stick with these internationals - just tell the ref to not let England race into a massive lead with soft/undeserved penalties. We wont get these against the Aussies

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gavin7094    77

Or perhaps England who have 13 teams in this league have just improved more.

How bad would France be if none of those players played in SL?

So the strategy was flawed from the start then? Putting 1 French side in was never going to work. So why did we do it?

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boxhead    158

Burgess, Hall, Westwood, Hock, Ellis, Graham all could argue a place. The Aussies seemed incapable of tackling Crabtree and Robinson when they last played them. Luke Burgess seemed to easily compete in the NRL, and he was a worse player than Mossop, Harrison Morley Carvell and than Hill is now. If you put Tomkins in the Aus team would he do significantly less damage than Slater arguably not. Briscoe could be better than Aussie winger in a years time, Uate was playing for Aus last time we played them and he was gash during origin. Reed seems to compete in the NRL just fine. Then Watkins seems to have just 'it' he may be a good match with an injury free season under his belt. 9 6 and 7 they outclass us but that's the big difference IMO even though our number 6 plays with their 7 and 9 every week and doesn't look out of place.. We can beat them they arnt bloody supermen but we need to step upto there intensity level and we have lots of players capable. Although we were poor today.

Tbh your point seems very irrelevant as I'd of put 4 kiwi players in the Aus team which won the world cup, that's being generous also.

:rolleyes:

England will win next years World Cup in a Canter at this rate.

The regular build up is starting earlier than usually it seems. :)

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Scubby    5,029

So the strategy was flawed from the start then? Putting 1 French side in was never going to work. So why did we do it?

In 2006 there were about 2-3 French full-time players. Now there are 20-25 French full-time players - how can that not be working? If there was a second French team in SL then we would have 40 full-time French players.

At the moment the French national side is like England V St Helens (minus Soliola, Puleutua, Hohaiha, Perry, Flannery, Meli etc.)

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