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Scubby

Dureau will qualify for France next year

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Personally I would rather see a player such as Theo Fages come through. He is 19 now and should be involved.

From the outside it seems the French game has too many "personalities" involved which has led to a tribal mentality. I have heard some players refusing to play for teams because of this.

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There is also their new beIN TV deal, which will not have had time to really take effect yet. This is exposure they couldn't have dreamed of 10-15 years ago, and will only improve things for the game in France.

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Personally I would rather see a player such as Theo Fages come through. He is 19 now and should be involved.

From the outside it seems the French game has too many "personalities" involved which has led to a tribal mentality. I have heard some players refusing to play for teams because of this.

One of the reasons surely behind the success of RL in NZ is the number of players who go to Australia at a fairly young age. It's a well trodden path for Kiwis though of course which makes it easier.

Is it just a cultural difference which is stopping more French players like Fages from coming over?

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I disagree.

It wasn't "the whole point" at all. It was just one point.

I love it when people try and dismiss things by over exaggerating the reasons behind it, like "the whole point if franchising was to stop clubs going bust/increase crowds/produce youngsters/cure cancel/feed the poor..."

What about increase RL's profile in France? Increase sponsorship? Improve crowd averages? Increase the playing pool? I could go on...

Didn't Widnes start with about 11 overseas players this season?

I've counted 8 so far in Catalans, and one Englishman.

Keep trying...

our overseas players like quite a few other super league teams were boosted by the crusaders players who were temporarily taken off the quota to facillitate their being able to get paid basically. now for next season widnes have so far signed 3 new players surprise surprise all english! can hull say the same?? so that part of your argument is flawed,

as for the french national team yes they are as poor as they were in 2005 just look at the latest thrashing by a below average england team!

most of the bleating about french teams being in super league, centred on the fact that it would make the national team more competetive surprise surprise it hasn't happened.

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our overseas players like quite a few other super league teams were boosted by the crusaders players who were temporarily taken off the quota to facillitate their being able to get paid basically. now for next season widnes have so far signed 3 new players surprise surprise all english! can hull say the same?? so that part of your argument is flawed,

as for the french national team yes they are as poor as they were in 2005 just look at the latest thrashing by a below average england team!

most of the bleating about french teams being in super league, centred on the fact that it would make the national team more competetive surprise surprise it hasn't happened.

Don't you think that score flattered England. There was a last minute interecption which took the score over 40 and they had a couple of players taken off injured, which must have disrupted them.

England are still in ther top three in the world. I don't think anyone thinks France are at that level. they beat Wales handily and were a lot better against England than Wales were.

In the last WC they finished bottom and didn't get out of their group. I expect their hoem games next year to be seelouts and that they will advance to the quarter finals at least.

Give them some time. Their game ws almost extinct just a few years ago. Don't forget they have been in two world cup finals and beaten Australia in a test series in Aus so the talent is there. They just need to stop the exodus to Union and satbilise and theuy will improve.

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I just can't see a reason now why Toulouse shouldn't be in super league. Another 10 potential French full time players and the England score line is reduced by 15 points at least. Put it in France and we may have a test match.

I love how super league clubs are taking the best welsh kids on board now, if it continues and we have a Toulouse in super league then what a tri nations we could have on the BBC.

Where are the the 25 French players who are good enough to play SL going to come from? Don't forget when Toulouse were in CC they were often thrashed by the likes of Fev, Halifax and Leigh.

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Where are the the 25 French players who are good enough to play SL going to come from? Don't forget when Toulouse were in CC they were often thrashed by the likes of Fev, Halifax and Leigh.

This is the question we'll never get a proper answer too. If Tolouse got put in SL they'd be getting hammered every single week and half the squad would be Aussies. If their is enough french players for a second pro club then they should be able to compete at CC level comfortably but they can't. Also if there was an overflow of french players at SL level then Catalans wouldn't have to fork out for people who arnt french such as Webb and Pryce ect. People say you need a second pro club to stop people going to Union ect but I don't see why. They'll just be watching there team get hammered every week which no one wants to watch. You can produce players of SL quality without having a club there. See how many Cumbrians are in SL sides academies at the moment. If there is talent in france too fund another SL club I don't see why Catalans arnt taking advantage of it.

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This is the question we'll never get a proper answer too. If Tolouse got put in SL they'd be getting hammered every single week and half the squad would be Aussies. If their is enough french players for a second pro club then they should be able to compete at CC level comfortably but they can't. Also if there was an overflow of french players at SL level then Catalans wouldn't have to fork out for people who arnt french such as Webb and Pryce ect. People say you need a second pro club to stop people going to Union ect but I don't see why. They'll just be watching there team get hammered every week which no one wants to watch. You can produce players of SL quality without having a club there. See how many Cumbrians are in SL sides academies at the moment. If there is talent in france too fund another SL club I don't see why Catalans arnt taking advantage of it.

The extra French SL team creates an avenue for another say 15 pro French players, who would either be lost to RU or stay part time. They wont go to the UK in general unlike Kiwis who go to Aus. The people who run Les Cats wont run the risk of an all French team due to the same club first mentality that all SL clubs have.

Toulouse could be a v strong club in SL and would easily attract a couple of marquee overseas players

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but lobby it wouldn't!! i watched a toulouse team loaded with fourth rate antipodeans get hammered week in week out in the CC, so where would the players suddenly emerge from???? like most on here when talking about more french teams in super league you are living in cloud cuckoo land........................

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The extra French SL team creates an avenue for another say 15 pro French players, who would either be lost to RU or stay part time. They wont go to the UK in general unlike Kiwis who go to Aus. The people who run Les Cats wont run the risk of an all French team due to the same club first mentality that all SL clubs have.

Toulouse could be a v strong club in SL and would easily attract a couple of marquee overseas players

That's like saying putting a random team from Northampton or something will produce 15 new pro players from northampton not playing RU. Will it work in SL? No.

The french players won't be of a good enough quality or they'd be playing a minimum of championship level at least. If you can name 15 more SL level standard french players then a french club will be necessary. The way france will have to expand is the current SL clubs making an effort to get french players into their system especially Catalans and when there is an overflow of french players then one will needed. They do need to do the same thing as other clubs to be sustainable in SL also, you can't just put them on 2k crowds and expect them to survive fair enough a french tv deal will help but even with that they would need some sort of business plan which involves developing french players and bringing in enough revenue to survive otherwise its pointless.

But the main point is they couldn't get a team, name the side they would field next year and how they could afford it?

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behave yourself lad, some on here are living in fairy tale land where enough players to fill two french super league teams will suddenly appear by magic. your post was just too logical for them to comprehend........................

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behave yourself lad, some on here are living in fairy tale land where enough players to fill two french super league teams will suddenly appear by magic. your post was just too logical for them to comprehend........................

Off the top of my head these players are not contracted to Catalans and have around 250 SL games between them. They also have not played for Toulouse in the Championship - Cyril Gossard, Frederick Vaccari, Matthieu Griffi, Kane Bentley, Seb Raguin, Tony Gigot, Dmitri Pelo, David Gaush, Seb Martins, Remi Marginet. I don't know that much about France but I am sure they can muster up SL quality players. Within a couple of years plenty of juniors will be knocking on the door.

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so why are they not still with super league clubs? could it be that they are not good enough???

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so why are they not still with super league clubs? could it be that they are not good enough???

Because French players will not travel to the UK - it is a cultural thing. That is why we need another SL club in France. In NZ, more players are moving to play for Aussie clubs than stay and play for the Warriors. That is why NZ have a strong side.

This will never happen with French players. Catalans can pick and choose who they give a contract to - they are spoilt. There are plenty of players on the fringes at Catalans who would flourish at another French SL club. Take Crusaders, they are no more but they likes of Kear, Flower, Dudson, White, Lloyd are now playing with SL clubs - none of them were playing any level of RL 3-4 years ago. France is not some experiment - it is a RL heartland. Give young players an opportunity to play at the top level and they will come off the production line.

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behave yourself lad, some on here are living in fairy tale land where enough players to fill two french super league teams will suddenly appear by magic. your post was just too logical for them to comprehend........................

Really? I'm not sure I've seen evidence of too much logic in your argument to be honest. The south of France has a long history and tradition of Rugby League. We all know the problems that existed with the Vichy Government etc. Despite extreme prejudice Rugby League continues to be popular in some areas. What they lack and have been lacking are opportunities for players to play the game professionally - make a living out of it.

There is a wealth of academic evidence which demonstrates that offering professional opportunities for players will lead to an increase in the numbers and quality of player in the French game.

The more opportunities available the more likely players will stick with or try out RL as opposed to RU or any other sport or career for that matter.

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At 26 and with another 3+ years on his contract at Catalans he won't be playing in Origin or for the Kangaroos anytime soon.

He was never going to get any Rep selection in Australia by any stretch of the imagination, he was released by a middle of the road Club and told to move on.

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Because French players will not travel to the UK - it is a cultural thing. That is why we need another SL club in France. In NZ, more players are moving to play for Aussie clubs than stay and play for the Warriors. That is why NZ have a strong side.

This will never happen with French players. Catalans can pick and choose who they give a contract to - they are spoilt. There are plenty of players on the fringes at Catalans who would flourish at another French SL club. Take Crusaders, they are no more but they likes of Kear, Flower, Dudson, White, Lloyd are now playing with SL clubs - none of them were playing any level of RL 3-4 years ago. France is not some experiment - it is a RL heartland. Give young players an opportunity to play at the top level and they will come off the production line.

well scubby that's a new excuse for having another french team in SL, just face the stark reality that there are just not enough good french RL players to form two competetive teams!! without copious amounts of antipodeans.............................

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You need to look at the French junior and under16 teams, they're pretty equal compared to the England teams, it's just that the England lads go on to the academy set up with excellent facilities,coaches and a professional attitude, whilst the French lads go to elite 1 clubs and train twice a week until they make the first team squad,or the lucky ones go into the Catalans set up,

There's not many players in elite 1 that can step up to super league but a lot of junior players that with the right coaching could maybe step up to super league within a few years,

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well scubby that's a new excuse for having another french team in SL, just face the stark reality that there are just not enough good french RL players to form two competetive teams!! without copious amounts of antipodeans.............................

These are not excuses they are facts. If every SL took on 2-3 French juniors and took them into their academy set-up there would be a healthy number of SL players born in France. SL clubs are not England or bothered about the International game so couldn't be ar**d to do something like this. French juniors will not migrate to England like NZ juniors do and there has to be systems in place to support them.

There isn't so the next step is to offer full-time opportunities in France through a second SL team. You do know that the Aussie Schoolboys which whooped England Academy 2-0 this summer lost to France juniors last autumn? But I suppose they were all Aussies and Kiwis.

As was said above, juniors either go to part-time Elite 1 or drift away. They may get picked up by Catalans. Also what is wrong with having a core of 8-10 imports (English or Aussies) in the first few seasons. Hull KR got promoted in 2007 and 5 years later still have a side filled with them.

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i for one have never agreed with teams having so many imports (yes even widnes before anyone says anything) i just feel that loading a team with antipodeans stifles the youth production at the offending clubs. in the days when we could actually compete with australia imports were extremely rare at english clubs, the likes of vollenhoven and prinsloo being the exception rather than the rule.

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i for one have never agreed with teams having so many imports (yes even widnes before anyone says anything) i just feel that loading a team with antipodeans stifles the youth production at the offending clubs. in the days when we could actually compete with australia imports were extremely rare at english clubs, the likes of vollenhoven and prinsloo being the exception rather than the rule.

Widnes would have been slaughtered every week without their imports this season. Yet you are against a French side starting up with the same policy. I am sure you are hoping that some of your young players will come through over the next 2-3 seasons. Based on your argument, you could assume there are not enough SL quality players in Halton or surrounding areas to justify a SL team in Widnes :rolleyes:

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Because French players will not travel to the UK - it is a cultural thing. That is why we need another SL club in France. In NZ, more players are moving to play for Aussie clubs than stay and play for the Warriors. That is why NZ have a strong side.

Is this actually true? How many french footballers are based in the UK? They seem only too willing to do that. How many rugby union players have played RU in UK? Why does Greater London have officially over 130k french residents? Why is there a french state run educational establishment in Kensington ? This does not take into account the large numbers of cross border commuters.

So if it is true it must be a Rugby League specific thing. Though I do not believe it is because several established players have played pro RL in the UK and many potential players have trialed at SL clubs. The issue here is maybe more with the English SL clubs generally not being sufficiently interested in French players.

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Is this actually true? How many french footballers are based in the UK? They seem only too willing to do that.

If they are receiving multi million pound salaries. Why wouldn't they be willing to do that?!

How many rugby union players have played RU in UK?

Not that many I suspect.

Why does Greater London have officially over 130k french residents? Why is there a french state run educational establishment in Kensington ?

There was an article in one of the papers the other week about how a generation of young French workers are moving to UK because it is more meritocratic than in France. It would be odd if London didn't have a large number of French expats..less so Northern England.

This does not take into account the large numbers of cross border commuters.

So if it is true it must be a Rugby League specific thing. Though I do not believe it is because several established players have played pro RL in the UK and many potential players have trialed at SL clubs.

The issue here is maybe more with the English SL clubs generally not being sufficiently interested in French players.

I think that is major factor, but I suspect that there is a reluctance amongst French players to come over here.

Why?

Many are semi professional and would therefore risk losing their main job if they came over. Salaries aren't large enough to risk a move for some. If SL clubs were offering 100000 plus to French players I think you would see more coming.

Cultural differences. Migration from NZ to Australia is a regular and well established pathway. South of France to Northern England isn't. It wouldn't surprise me if many kids in the south of France don't even learn English as their primary foreign language..wouldn't they learn Spanish first?

What Theo Fages has done at Salford is the exception rather than the norm. It reflects well on Salford who have been prepared to give him a go. I'm not sure how many other clubs would have done but it's probably not an easy move to make for a lot of French players.

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The key is getting french boys in spine positions in sl footy. Fages will play some footy at 6 or 7 at salford next season.

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