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Severus

@&#$ing cyclists version 2

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The verdict has come in for the case which kick-started The Times's Cycle Safe campaign. The lorry driver who crushed Mary Bowers such that she now requires 24 hour care admitted not seeing her despite being behind her for 10 seconds, admitted that he didn't even know there was a cycle lane beside him, admitted he did not look properly, admitted not applying his handbrake so that his lorry continued to roll over her and that he was concentrating on a (hands free) phone call at the time giving directions to another colleague.

The jury decided that such actions are careless, not dangerous. So he gets a £2,700 fine and an 8 month ban.

The judge, apparently, was 'visibily angry' at the jury's decision.

EDIT

And if you pimp your car windows such that you can't see, open your door causing a cyclist to fall under the wheels of a bus and be killed - the jury will also let you off. (http://road.cc/content/news/72113-motorist-found-not-guilty-manslaughter-connection-death-london-cyclist).

Still, y'know, some cyclists don't wear helmets ...

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I'm sure that will not be the end of the matter. It is surely no longer socially acceptable to kill cyclists with impunity and I am sure the CPS or whoever will use the full force of the law to get these perverse verdicts overturned.

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And if you pimp your car windows such that you can't see, open your door causing a cyclist to fall under the wheels of a bus and be killed - the jury will also let you off. (http://road.cc/conte...-london-cyclist).

They were saying on the radio that this case went to the Old Bailey because the CPS knew that there was a gap in the law. He couldn't be done for driving offenses as he wasn't driving at the time (paraphrasing).

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There are over 80,000 convictions every year for drink-driving in England & Wales.

And how many drivers are there?

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The difference is that whilst people realise that there may be some idiots on the road, drivers as a group aren't vilified to the extent that cyclists are. You only have to look at some of the posts on this thread to see that. Granted there are idiots on two wheels who seem intent on removing themselves from the gene pool, but why is there hatred towards all cyclists? I've been out on my bike and have experienced vitriol from drivers and I can assure you that I wasn't doing anything wrong. In one instance a driver shouted obscenities at me for about 200 yards before trying (unsuccessfully) to knock me off. To this day I have no idea what this guys problem was.

I can't begin to understand idiots like that, nor can you really legislate for them. Let me be clear, I have absolutely nothing against cyclists, zilch. But there are idiots about on two or four wheels and you can't apply a brush to it and say its all one party or the other.

What about number plates (registrations) for bikes? Is this a consideration?

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Don't think so. I'm sure it happens elsewhere, though but I just can't see it being done here.

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I can't begin to understand idiots like that, nor can you really legislate for them. Let me be clear, I have absolutely nothing against cyclists, zilch. But there are idiots about on two or four wheels and you can't apply a brush to it and say its all one party or the other.

What about number plates (registrations) for bikes? Is this a consideration?

Yeah, I didn't mean to rant at you. TBF most drivers are courteous and sensible. Unfortunately of the thousand or so of cars you encounter on a ride, it's the one idiot that you remember.

Doubt you'll ever get bikes to be registered (or cyclists for that matter). Too difficult to implement and enforce. I would like to see poor cycling become socially unacceptable like drink driving has become.

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Just got delivery of my electric bike on Friday. First time out this morning on it and what an amazing piece of kit.

Normally a 35 minute walk to work,now it's 10 mins on mi bike.

Can highly recommend these,cost me £660 but got it thru the government cycle scheme so it's about a third off.

Will be lit up like a Christmas tree

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EDIT

And if you pimp your car windows such that you can't see, open your door causing a cyclist to fall under the wheels of a bus and be killed - the jury will also let you off. (http://road.cc/conte...-london-cyclist).

Still, y'know, some cyclists don't wear helmets ...

I am not saying the person in the car is not to blame. But why was the bike rider so close to the parked car?

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I am not saying the person in the car is not to blame. But why was the bike rider so close to the parked car?

Because some impatient overtaking motorists don't give cyclists enough room?

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Because some impatient overtaking motorists don't give cyclists enough room?

If that was the reason. Did he slow down in case someone opened a door?

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If that was the reason. Did he slow down in case someone opened a door?

Who..the cyclist or the bus driver?

No idea mate, not read the article, I just thought that was the obvious answer. Also, everybody should check before opening a door onto the road.

I was behind a car yesterday morning west of Hull, national speed limit road, we were coming up to a cyclist on the left with double white lines down the middle of a narrow road. A car was coming the other way just at the time the driver in front reached the cyclist. He didn't even bother braking, overtook the cyclist whilst remaining the correct side of the double white lines, missing the cyclist by about 18 inches. It seemed it was more important to him to observe the road markings than risk wiping out the cyclist.

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Who..the cyclist or the bus driver?

I am talking about the cyclist.

No idea mate, not read the article, I just thought that was the obvious answer. Also, everybody should check before opening a door onto the road.

Maybe he did check, but didnt see the cyclist.

I was behind a car yesterday morning west of Hull, national speed limit road, we were coming up to a cyclist on the left with double white lines down the middle of a narrow road. A car was coming the other way just at the time the driver in front reached the cyclist. He didn't even bother braking, overtook the cyclist whilst remaining the correct side of the double white lines, missing the cyclist by about 18 inches. It seemed it was more important to him to observe the road markings than risk wiping out the cyclist.

Maybe he thought he had more room than he did. Maybe he didnt care, maybe he didnt even see the cyclist. With out knowing all the facts its hard to say what the reason was.

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Here is the BBC report: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-20725496

Sam Harding bicycle death: Kenan Aydogdu cleared of manslaughter

He had had the windows of his car coated with a dark plastic film which reduced visibility in and out of the car to 17%

Witnesses on the bus said Mr Aydogdu opened his door directly into the path of the cyclist on 6 August last year...

Mr Aydogdu, who admitted opening the door without using his mirror...

Lets just trust that Adogdu's life is ruined like he ended Harding's life and ruined the lives of Harding's family.

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The BBC report mentions about his dark windows. Having a full report from the court would be better.

We dont know if the dark windows caused any problem. We dont know how close to the parked car was the cyclist.

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The BBC report mentions about his dark windows. Having a full report from the court would be better.

We dont know if the dark windows caused any problem. We dont know how close to the parked car was the cyclist.

Yes, we must always find excuses for the driver.

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I am not saying the person in the car is not to blame. But why was the bike rider so close to the parked car?

You're kidding me aren't you? When cyclists cycle in the middle of the lane we get moaned at. When cyclists cycle to the left of the lane this happens.

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I fail to see how relevant the proximity of a cyclist to a parked car is. Car doors don't open on their own. People who should check that nothing is going past open them. If they don't, they shouldn't be in the responsible position of being a car driver.

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When people are learning to drive a car or motorbike. They are taught not to drive to close to a parked car. The reason is if any one opens a door you will hit it. In fact if you drive to close to parked cars, on a driving test, they fail for it.

If this cyclist had have been moor than a door length away he would have been safe.

Every person has to take reasonable action to keep themselves safe.

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When people are learning to drive a car or motorbike. They are taught not to drive to close to a parked car. The reason is if any one opens a door you will hit it. In fact if you drive to close to parked cars, on a driving test, they fail for it.

If this cyclist had have been moor than a door length away he would have been safe.

Every person has to take reasonable action to keep themselves safe.

Totally agree. However, when cyclists do ride so that they aren't in danger from being doored we get all manner of grief from car drivers. I have been doored before (a passenger tried to get out in stationary traffic) and it is the worst because there are no warning signs.

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When people are learning to drive a car or motorbike. They are taught not to drive to close to a parked car. The reason is if any one opens a door you will hit it. In fact if you drive to close to parked cars, on a driving test, they fail for it.

If this cyclist had have been moor than a door length away he would have been safe.

Every person has to take reasonable action to keep themselves safe.

But as you quite rightly pointed you, you are ignorant of the facts.

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But as you quite rightly pointed you, you are ignorant of the facts.

Actually i am not. It was on the radio yesterday. The dad of the lad killed was talking.

Car was legally parked in a car parking lane. Lad on bike was riding in a cycle/bus lane. Door was opened hitting the bike on the side. This knocked the lad of into the path of the bus.

Questions need to be asked.

Why was a bus and bike having to share the same lane. There should be a bike lane and a bus lane.

Why was he so close to a parked car. Was this because of the poor lay out of the lane. Was this because the bus was to close to him. Was this because he wasn't taking enough care.

Why did the door open. The car driver said he did look but didn't see him. No one can say he didn't as no cameras on the road could see the drivers head.

Maybe the driver didnt look.

The roads in this country were never built to have cars/buses,HGV and bikes all sharing the same space.

The design of some bike lanes is shameful.

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Actually i am not. It was on the radio yesterday. The dad of the lad killed was talking.

Car was legally parked in a car parking lane. Lad on bike was riding in a cycle/bus lane. Door was opened hitting the bike on the side. This knocked the lad of into the path of the bus.

Questions need to be asked.

Why was a bus and bike having to share the same lane. There should be a bike lane and a bus lane.

Why was he so close to a parked car. Was this because of the poor lay out of the lane. Was this because the bus was to close to him. Was this because he wasn't taking enough care.

Why did the door open. The car driver said he did look but didn't see him. No one can say he didn't as no cameras on the road could see the drivers head.

Maybe the driver didnt look.

The roads in this country were never built to have cars/buses,HGV and bikes all sharing the same space.

The design of some bike lanes is shameful.

More evidence of the need for the introduction of strict liability. The cyclist was legally in the cycle lane. The car driver was illegally in this country. The cyclist is dead. The driver is still here. but hey, lets blame the cyclist. How far away from the car should he have been?. Of course, no one could say the driver did or didn't look , either through his illegally blacked out windows or not.

London Assembly Green Party member Jenny Jones said the Metropolitan Police had issued an average of seven to nine fixed penalty notices per year for "car dooring" in the past seven years. "Cyclists being killed or seriously injured by drivers opening their car doors is remarkably common, yet it has received very little attention from the police or the mayor," she said.

From here: http://ukcyclerules.com/2011/01/18/the-laws-of-car-doors/

It turns out that it’s an offence to open “any door of a vehicle on a road so as to injure or endanger any person”. If you’re cycling along and someone opens a car door in your path, they may commit this offence (and be liable to a fine of up to £1000). (RVCUR r. 105; RTA s. 42; RTOA Sch 2)

There are a few details which are worth bearing in mind:

  • There doesn’t have to be a crash for the offence to be committed – it’s an offence toinjure someone who is riding past by opening a car door, but it’s also an offence simply toendanger them (for example if they have to swerve to avoid a crash).
  • The offence isn’t limited to drivers - so a passenger who opens a car door so as to injure or endanger a cyclist could commit the offence.
  • It also isn’t limited to cars, but seems to apply to any vehicle which is on a road and which has a door.

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More evidence of the need for the introduction of strict liability. The cyclist was legally in the cycle lane. The car driver was illegally in this country. The cyclist is dead. The driver is still here. but hey, lets blame the cyclist. How far away from the car should he have been?. Of course, no one could say the driver did or didn't look , either through his illegally blacked out windows or not.

John even you are not sure who is to blame as you bit that i have put in bold shows.

Much more things need to be looked at than just one thing.

The only trouble is, you cannot except that.

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