Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

RSN

What we learnt about England in the Autumn internationals.

25 posts in this topic

This is personally what I learnt about England in this series:

Hock needs to mature to even be considered against Aus and the Kiwis although he is probably the biggest strike threat we have in the forwards.

Watkins for the right centre spot, he seemed a class act every time he got the ball and seemed a class above cudjoe. Its out for Reed/Atkins/Cudjoe for the other spot.

Briscoe impressed me more than Charnley and he is in the front seat for the wing spot next year with Ryan Hall undoubtly taking the other.

JJB and Ablett should be no where near selection next year.

Its going to be a tough decision in the props with Burgess x 2/Crabtree/Carvell/Hill/Mossop/Morley/Graham all warranting selection

We need to up the intensity.

Our problem in the halves still hasn't been resolved.

Anything else people would like to add.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Haven't really learnt much about England in this series that I already think I know.

They are light years behind AUS and NZ and they will be putting those kind of score-lines up against England next year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The spirit in the England camp looks brilliant, if we get neutral refs and the Aussies don't going crying the the Sydney media about getting a friendly ref then England can win it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The spirit in the England camp looks brilliant, if we get neutral refs and the Aussies don't going crying the the Sydney media about getting a friendly ref then England can win it.

Have you had a bang on the head?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

England need to play teams who have 80mins game time in them. Not five mins here and there!!

12 months ago we competed for an hour, this year we only needed to compete for 15/20 mins

Team spirit looks good.

We'll beat the kiwis but not a chance against Australia , not a chance in hell.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Watkins has matured as a centre,good footwork,good hands.

Myler and Sinfield are a good halfback partnership

Mossop and Hill make a very good pair of props to support Graham and Burgess.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Watkins has matured as a centre,good footwork,good hands.

Myler and Sinfield are a good halfback partnership *

Mossop and Hill make a very good pair of props to support Graham and Burgess.

* have you been drinking?? This is the worst half back pair ever to play rugby league

Funny that, they've won all medals possible between them this season :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My findings, with the world cup in mind...

Hardaker is going to be a very capable back up for Tomkins especially if he improves as you'd expect him to given his age and relative inexperience of the position.

Wingers are fine, Hall is a shoe in, toss of a coin between Briscoe/josh.

Watkins looks the real deal. Not convinced by Cudjoe, Reed would get my vote.

Halves did ok, think Widdop has to be involved. I'd have him at 6 and Sinny at 7 with Myler and Chase in the mix as back up.

Props look good, Mossop and Hill both played well and should both get better, added to Graham/Burgess and many others we're looking good here.

Hock really needs to cut the errors out or else he'd be a liability against the best. Hope he can do it as on his day he can be unplayable, didn't see anything from Ablett or JJB that thinks they should be above Westwood or Ellis.

O'loughlin was impressive and should be 13.

I'd have Burrow in the squad, always a threat and I think he's a better option(just) than MM to support Roby at hooker.

I'd have liked to see Luke Burgess and Ratchford play

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

* have you been drinking?? This is the worst half back pair ever to play rugby league

Funny that, they've won all medals possible between them this season :P

it has been a rather long afternoon ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

it has been a rather long afternoon ;)

it has been a rather long afternoon ;)

:)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Haven't really learnt much about England in this series that I already think I know.

They are light years behind AUS and NZ and they will be putting those kind of score-lines up against England next year.

They whooped NZ 28-6 last time they met. HTH.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They whooped NZ 28-6 last time they met. HTH.

We beat Wales by 68 points didn't we? So wonder what would warrant a 90 point turn around in 2 years which PDL is stating. Fair enough that the kiwis had a half a dozen of quality players missing but since 2011 from my point of view:

Tomkins is a better player than 2011. Briscoe and Charnley have both improved the right wing spot. We potentially have a quality centre combination in Watkins and Reed who arn't half as bad of who we have had in the past. We had Chase playing when we played them, Widdop is twice the player of Chase and is holding down his position in the best club side in the world. Graham has improved and is now considered in the top 3 props in the world without a doubt and arguably the best. Sam Burgess wasn't playing in that series and we also have Hock now who on his day is world class. Luke Burgess has also improved massively. We had two players in the RLIF team of the year, which is two more than the Kiwis I believe. So how are we light years behind them I don't exactly know, someone tell me and I'll be happy to debate the points you make

In reality we are short of Aus but have the ability to beat them in a one off game. Player by player I think we match the Kiwis, and even if we are short than Australia we can definitely beat them in a off game. I wish people would explain to me in detail that we are 'light years behind Aus and NZ' because in reality, we arn't as far as we think.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think Hock, Chase, McIllorum or Mossop should be anywhere near an England shirt as the first 3 are hot-heads/thugs [Hock and Chase definitely are thugs] and Mossop never impresses me, plus at times he looks like he's possibly looking for trouble.

I thought JJB was really good today.

I'm still of the opinion Morley will be too old in 2013 to be of any real use to England. I'm much rather Larne Patrick or Eorl Crabtree took his place.

Plus I'm still a little unsure about Grahams' dirty side too. Could he a liability too? As he was dirty in the Grand Final in 2010 so I'm unsure whether he's becoming dirtier with age?

In reality we are short of Aus but have the ability to beat them in a one off game. Player by player I think we match the Kiwis, and even if we are short than Australia we can definitely beat them in a off game. I wish people would explain to me in detail that we are 'light years behind Aus and NZ' because in reality, we arn't as far as we think.

Exactly!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i think the biggest thing we have learned is the confirmation that ryan hall is the best winger in world rugby of either code!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The only thing we need to do against Australia is to play for 80 minutes. We are usually fine in the first 40, in fact we're sometimes fine in the first 60, but then as we slowly approach the 80 minute mark they go on to thrash us.

Do that and we'll either win, or only lose by max 8 points.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think Danny Maguire should be in the squad. You cannot leave out a player with his scoring abilities.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think Danny Maguire should be in the squad. You cannot leave out a player with his scoring abilities.

Widdop is a better all round player than Mcguire in my opinion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The only thing we need to do against Australia is to play for 80 minutes. We are usually fine in the first 40, in fact we're sometimes fine in the first 60, but then as we slowly approach the 80 minute mark they go on to thrash us.

Do that and we'll either win, or only lose by max 8 points.

Reason is because our halves just get simply outclassed. They get the Aussie forwards on the front foot until our forwards collapse and they go on to win the game. The only real big difference between Aus and England is 6 7 and 9. Even in the backs we arnt anywhere near as far behind as we used to be.

Tomkins is slightly worse than Slater, but he's just as good in attack.

Uate and Boyd who played in 2011 arnt clearly better than Briscoe and Hall, infact I question wether they're better at all. Fair enough they're better in the centres but Inglis has so many bad games in him, Lyon and Morris are class though but Reed doesn't seem to struggle against playing against this level of opposition every week and Watkins looks better than him.

Its only Smith Thurston and Cronk who just make the difference, but people still insist we are miles behind them but will never explain how. If we swapped our 6 7 and 9 with there's we'd win.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Reason is because our halves just get simply outclassed. They get the Aussie forwards on the front foot until our forwards collapse and they go on to win the game. The only real big difference between Aus and England is 6 7 and 9. Even in the backs we arnt anywhere near as far behind as we used to be.

Tomkins is slightly worse than Slater, but he's just as good in attack.

Uate and Boyd who played in 2011 arnt clearly better than Briscoe and Hall, infact I question wether they're better at all. Fair enough they're better in the centres but Inglis has so many bad games in him, Lyon and Morris are class though but Reed doesn't seem to struggle against playing against this level of opposition every week and Watkins looks better than him.

Its only Smith Thurston and Cronk who just make the difference, but people still insist we are miles behind them but will never explain how. If we swapped our 6 7 and 9 with there's we'd win.

Nail on the head!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Reason is because our halves just get simply outclassed. They get the Aussie forwards on the front foot until our forwards collapse and they go on to win the game. The only real big difference between Aus and England is 6 7 and 9. Even in the backs we arnt anywhere near as far behind as we used to be.

Tomkins is slightly worse than Slater, but he's just as good in attack.

Uate and Boyd who played in 2011 arnt clearly better than Briscoe and Hall, infact I question wether they're better at all. Fair enough they're better in the centres but Inglis has so many bad games in him, Lyon and Morris are class though but Reed doesn't seem to struggle against playing against this level of opposition every week and Watkins looks better than him.

Its only Smith Thurston and Cronk who just make the difference, but people still insist we are miles behind them but will never explain how. If we swapped our 6 7 and 9 with there's we'd win.

I am surprised that you can omit Slater as being of no importance within the Australian set-up? There is a difference in the opposition that Tomkins face in each and every domestic game that they take part in B/kid and as good as Sam can be in S/L he is a long way from proving that he would be equally as dangerous facing much sterner defencies on a weekly basis like those in the NRL.

Sorry but you are misguided to believe that there is little if any difference between Sam and Billy and I would definitely swop theirs for ours withou any hesitation whatsoever.

You though absolutely spot on concerning the halves. The coach should have the know how to perceive that the combination of Sinfield and Chase is on a World scale a pretty poor combination and simply not good enough to compete with either Thurston /Cronk or Johnson/Marshall. Unfortunately although we now do have a decent array of players from which to select our side from, we have a coach who it seems is focussed upon players whom he cannot look beyond and can simply only choose from his own favourites without recourse to others who are not being given opportunities to show their worth.

Finally; yes again, Watkins does look a superb athlete with the ball in hand! However his defence does leave a lot to be desired and unless this improves dramatically (which I for one hope that it does) he could prove to a be liability also if called upon to defend against teams from OZ and NZ. The latter which you seem to dispel as poor or worse? Well I would not be shouting that too loudly as the Kiwi side next November will bear little resemblence to that which we beat in last years tri series, on that score you can rest assured.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am surprised that you can omit Slater as being of no importance within the Australian set-up? There is a difference in the opposition that Tomkins face in each and every domestic game that they take part in B/kid and as good as Sam can be in S/L he is a long way from proving that he would be equally as dangerous facing much sterner defencies on a weekly basis like those in the NRL.

Sorry but you are misguided to believe that there is little if any difference between Sam and Billy and I would definitely swop theirs for ours withou any hesitation whatsoever.

You though absolutely spot on concerning the halves. The coach should have the know how to perceive that the combination of Sinfield and Chase is on a World scale a pretty poor combination and simply not good enough to compete with either Thurston /Cronk or Johnson/Marshall. Unfortunately although we now do have a decent array of players from which to select our side from, we have a coach who it seems is focussed upon players whom he cannot look beyond and can simply only choose from his own favourites without recourse to others who are not being given opportunities to show their worth.

Finally; yes again, Watkins does look a superb athlete with the ball in hand! However his defence does leave a lot to be desired and unless this improves dramatically (which I for one hope that it does) he could prove to a be liability also if called upon to defend against teams from OZ and NZ. The latter which you seem to dispel as poor or worse? Well I would not be shouting that too loudly as the Kiwi side next November will bear little resemblence to that which we beat in last years tri series, on that score you can rest assured.

I think Sam proved himself in the 2011 4N. At times he ran through the Aus/Kiwi defence with ease especially with ball returns. Against the Kiwis didn't he beat 6 defenders I think their will be a video of that on youtube somehwere. Slater is the better all round player I won't deny that, but if you swapped Tomkins for Slater I don't think that it would be that bad. A quote from Darren Lockyer he said that if you stop Tomkins you go a long way to beating England, as an attacking threat I don't think you can say Slater is a class above Tomkins in attack because I just don't think he is personally. But Slaters all round game is much better.

I agree, it would be a brainfart IMO not to pick Widdop behind Chase and Sinfield. Fair enough he's not anywhere near as Thurston or Marshall but he's a damn sight better than them two.

With Watkins it's the same as Sam really, as an attacking threat he's not far off Aus its just his all round game. If he sorts his all round game then he'll be a good match for international level. With Reed I watched Brisbane 4 times last season and every game they lost, which is probably why I've lowered my opinion of him. Nothing to do with him of course thats probably an explanation why I came out with that statement, didn't watch as much NRL as I did in previous years apart from the play offs so your knowledge on Reed in making a comparision will likely be better than mine.

And no doubt about that, It'll be much better than 2011, but I'll fail to accept the term 'we are light years behind them' when they are beatable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Reason is because our halves just get simply outclassed. They get the Aussie forwards on the front foot until our forwards collapse and they go on to win the game. The only real big difference between Aus and England is 6 7 and 9. Even in the backs we arnt anywhere near as far behind as we used to be.

Tomkins is slightly worse than Slater, but he's just as good in attack.

Uate and Boyd who played in 2011 arnt clearly better than Briscoe and Hall, infact I question wether they're better at all. Fair enough they're better in the centres but Inglis has so many bad games in him, Lyon and Morris are class though but Reed doesn't seem to struggle against playing against this level of opposition every week and Watkins looks better than him.

Its only Smith Thurston and Cronk who just make the difference, but people still insist we are miles behind them but will never explain how. If we swapped our 6 7 and 9 with there's we'd win.

I'd agree with that except I think that Roby is a class act at hooker and I like the look of Clarke as possible back up if it's not too soon for him.

I don't get how Widdop can be first choice for the best club side in Australia and struggle to be first choice in the England side.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd agree with that except I think that Roby is a class act at hooker and I like the look of Clarke as possible back up if it's not too soon for him.

I don't get how Widdop can be first choice for the best club side in Australia and struggle to be first choice in the England side.

Clarke needs another season IMO and should move on fron Cas before making the step up. Wire should be keeping their eye on him for a replacement for their two aging hookers.

Last bit is just McNamara being clueless, people say Widdop just looks good with the class which is around him but Widdop has never been called the weak link. Even when the melbourne 3 were on origin he looked quality, if Chase starts ahead of Widdop ill personally buy a seat as close to Mcnamara as possible to give him the abuse he would rightly deserve.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Reason is because our halves just get simply outclassed. They get the Aussie forwards on the front foot until our forwards collapse and they go on to win the game. The only real big difference between Aus and England is 6 7 and 9. Even in the backs we arnt anywhere near as far behind as we used to be.

Tomkins is slightly worse than Slater, but he's just as good in attack.

Uate and Boyd who played in 2011 arnt clearly better than Briscoe and Hall, infact I question wether they're better at all. Fair enough they're better in the centres but Inglis has so many bad games in him, Lyon and Morris are class though but Reed doesn't seem to struggle against playing against this level of opposition every week and Watkins looks better than him.

Its only Smith Thurston and Cronk who just make the difference, but people still insist we are miles behind them but will never explain how. If we swapped our 6 7 and 9 with there's we'd win.

Its more than just a few individuals who make the difference although the Aussies do have the upper hand in that department, particularly in the halves where they're miles ahead.

Coaching has long been an issue with England / GB. Our coaches always seem to come with a game plan and then rigidly push individual players into that plan regardless of whether it takes them away from the natural game & style they play every week for their clubs.

The Aussies & Kiwis have a general plan of how they wan't the team to play but appear to allow players to play their natual games and adapt as the game goes on. The team plays to the individuals strengths rather than our way for trying to change individuals.

England can win as many games as they like and look impressive against the likes of France, Wales, Scotland etc. but you'll never convince me that they will win a major tournament against the Aussies & Kiwi's as long as they have such a poor coaching set up with such an outdated mind set and plan.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Its more than just a few individuals who make the difference although the Aussies do have the upper hand in that department, particularly in the halves where they're miles ahead.

Coaching has long been an issue with England / GB. Our coaches always seem to come with a game plan and then rigidly push individual players into that plan regardless of whether it takes them away from the natural game & style they play every week for their clubs.

The Aussies & Kiwis have a general plan of how they wan't the team to play but appear to allow players to play their natual games and adapt as the game goes on. The team plays to the individuals strengths rather than our way for trying to change individuals.

England can win as many games as they like and look impressive against the likes of France, Wales, Scotland etc. but you'll never convince me that they will win a major tournament against the Aussies & Kiwi's as long as they have such a poor coaching set up with such an outdated mind set and plan.

Good letter and spot on the mark too. Slowdive asks, or wonders?, why Widdop can command an almost automatic first team place on the best team in the NRL yet cannot gain selection even, when we are crying out for a Stand-off who is actually a STAND-OFF!!

Two words; Steve Macnamara!!!!!!!!!!!

His ideas have no doubt worked to some degree with the obvious cameraderie evident in the present England team and set-up, but his selections, as has been stated by others, plus the game plans? Do beggar the imagination.

He is content to play the same lads again and again V the Best teams he comes up against with the almost predictable loss at the end of each game.

OK he did manage a win V the Kiwi's last term and I will not go into the rights and wrongs of what was about in the NZ camp at that time, but he will not get a win V the Aussies if persisting with these outdated beliefs that, because someone excels in the S/L he will do the same against whoever he plays.

No names this time but I am sure you can work out who I am aiming at and the format, if it is the usual, one will inevitably end in the usual result at the end of the World cup next year also.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



League Express - Mon 10th April 2017

Rugby League World - April 2017